R I S E ___ U P ___ D A R K ___ S I D E (2023)

Arz101

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Apr 23, 2014
Posts
4,584
Reaction score
5,000
I can only dream of Arizona Septembers with football around and Bezos or Musk as the owners. Oh well.
 

ASUCHRIS

ONE HEART BEAT!!!
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Posts
12,918
Reaction score
8,147
I hope so although the Suns had turned the corner the past several seasons with James Jones as the GM.

This in no way supports Robert Sarver... just saying.
Bad teams CAN be successful - even the Cards have had brief glimpses of success, but more often than not, it's in spite of bad owners, not because of them.

Bad owners are 10x worse than bad GM's/coaches/rosters - those can be discarded. Bad owners, those are a generational curse. Cities and towns subsidizing these rich playthings should have more agency in who owns them.
 
OP
OP
Brian in Mesa

Brian in Mesa

I Want To Believe
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
68,598
Reaction score
18,202
Location
The Dark Side
I can only dream of Arizona Septembers with football around and Bezos or Musk as the owners. Oh well.
It would have to be tempting for the Bidwill family to sell. The franchise was valued (by Forbes) at $3.27 billion just last year. To put that into perspective, the Broncos were valued at $3.75 billion, but sold for $4.65 billion.

I guess the problem is what to do with all of that money so it isn't just eaten up by taxes. It would have to be reinvested into something. And the real story - Michael would lose his celebrity status in which he gets to rub shoulders with big wigs and politicians...

Question - if Michael were to step down or pass away, who does the team go to next? Nicole? Another family member?
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
105,945
Reaction score
45,004
Bad teams CAN be successful - even the Cards have had brief glimpses of success, but more often than not, it's in spite of bad owners, not because of them.

Bad owners are 10x worse than bad GM's/coaches/rosters - those can be discarded. Bad owners, those are a generational curse. Cities and towns subsidizing these rich playthings should have more agency in who owns them.

I believe if Michael Bidwill hired a good GM and let him run the team as he saw fit, the Cardinals would be more successful.

It's not all about spending money, although that is necessary.

It's more about the GM making smart decisions, hitting in the draft and signing the players that best fit the system.
 

BirdGangThing

Casual Fan
Joined
Dec 27, 2019
Posts
4,939
Reaction score
6,615
Location
Arcadia
I kinda think of Keim as Mikey's first marriage - especially with how much money it cost him. He's still paying alimony in that aspect - and is also still Kingsburried in debt from a very poor business decision he and Keim made together. Couple that with the roster situation/recent mighty downfall... And I'm guessing Ossenfort's knock it all down - start over plan was music to Mikey's wallet. Only thing holding me together is thankfully the timing couldn't have better imo, particularly with Kyler out. But as for Mikey I don't think he's bowtie cheap, I think he thought he was paying (top dollar mind you) for years of future success, sadly such was not the case
 
Last edited:

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
105,945
Reaction score
45,004
I kinda think of Keim as Mikey's first marriage - especially with how much money it cost him. He's still paying alimony in that aspect - and is also still Kingsburried in debt from a very poor business he and Keim made together. Couple that with the roster situation/recent mighty downfall... And I'm guessing Ossenfort's knock it all down - start over plan was music to Mikey's wallet. Only thing holding me together is thankfully the timing couldn't have better imo, particularly with Kyler out. But as for Mikey I don't think he's bowtie cheap, I think he thought he was paying (top dollar) for years of future success, sadly such was not the case

I can't help but wonder if the Cardinals are looking at the 2024 draft and replacing Kyler Murray if that proves necessary.

Hitting on draft picks is going to be huge in the upcoming draft.
 

ASUCHRIS

ONE HEART BEAT!!!
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Posts
12,918
Reaction score
8,147
I believe if Michael Bidwill hired a good GM and let him run the team as he saw fit, the Cardinals would be more successful.
As has been intimated many times by those in the know around here, MB isn't looking for a good GM! No serious franchise sticks by a guy like Keim both based on personal and personnel decisions. He would rather meddle and play front office smart guy than have to deal with a real GM. A GM who would never let an owner micromanage to the level Michael does.

He stuck by his buddy because that was more important to him than winning.
It's not all about spending money, although that is necessary.
It's all aspects of money - it's not just contracts. Little stuff like charging for meals, the outdated equipment, the lack of child care...people will find ways to minimize this stuff, but seeing the player surveys makes it pretty obvious the nickle and dime stuff matters!
It's more about the GM making smart decisions, hitting in the draft and signing the players that best fit the system.
Sounds lovely. Hopefully our not first choice can execute and make that happen. Knowing who is pulling the strings up top makes me skeptical.
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
105,945
Reaction score
45,004
As has been intimated many times by those in the know around here, MB isn't looking for a good GM! No serious franchise sticks by a guy like Keim both based on personal and personnel decisions. He would rather meddle and play front office smart guy than have to deal with a real GM. A GM who would never let an owner micromanage to the level Michael does.

He stuck by his buddy because that was more important to him than winning.

It's all aspects of money - it's not just contracts. Little stuff like charging for meals, the outdated equipment, the lack of child care...people will find ways to minimize this stuff, but seeing the player surveys makes it pretty obvious the nickle and dime stuff matters!

Sounds lovely. Hopefully our not first choice can execute and make that happen. Knowing who is pulling the strings up top makes me skeptical.

Owners can learn and watch the dollar at the same time. The Suns sold their G-league team but hired a GM that focused on signing proven talent. Sarver could buy into spending money on tangible assets.

I think a good GM can convince an owner where best to direct assets. Previously the Suns invested in players that didn't work out.

Hiring a good coach, investing in new training facilities, and signing veteran talent is something Sarver understood.

The Cardinals GM needs to sell a new philosophy on where to spend the money that works.
 

gimpy

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Aug 23, 2009
Posts
2,808
Reaction score
2,218
Location
Flagstaff, Az
As has been intimated many times by those in the know around here, MB isn't looking for a good GM! No serious franchise sticks by a guy like Keim both based on personal and personnel decisions. He would rather meddle and play front office smart guy than have to deal with a real GM. A GM who would never let an owner micromanage to the level Michael does.

He stuck by his buddy because that was more important to him than winning.

It's all aspects of money - it's not just contracts. Little stuff like charging for meals, the outdated equipment, the lack of child care...people will find ways to minimize this stuff, but seeing the player surveys makes it pretty obvious the nickle and dime stuff matters!

Sounds lovely. Hopefully our not first choice can execute and make that happen. Knowing who is pulling the strings up top makes me skeptical.
ASU, what and who do you mean "by those in the know"? And, you don't think MB wasn't looking for a "good" GM?
 

AZCB34

ASFN Icon
Joined
Sep 23, 2002
Posts
13,573
Reaction score
5,187
Location
Mesa, AZ
Trash humans. I'd literally actually have Mike just for some kind of respectability.
I hope you don’t think Mikey is some squeaky clean great human. He is not although he is better than Musk.
 

jf-08

Guy Smiley
Administrator
Super Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 15, 2002
Posts
24,786
Reaction score
17,378
Location
Eye in the Sky
Let's be honest....We have signed the guys that we did because no one else wanted to come here and no one else wanted the guys that we signed and we have to have bodies to field a team. So we stocked up on mannequins to drive in the car pool lane. Brutal.
I should have posted this here.
 

Solar7

Go Suns
Joined
May 18, 2002
Posts
10,823
Reaction score
11,226
Location
Las Vegas, NV
This take isn't aging well.
I'd still rather have him than the people mentioned. Not that he's great, but still. Mike is maybe a bad boss who could stand to get out of his own way, Bezos and Musk are exploiting the world, the US, and exacerbating class disparities for levels of wealth not even needed for any human. Gonna leave the rest of my feelings about them to P&R.
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
105,945
Reaction score
45,004
I’m sorry, I’m a Cards fan, what does “hitting on draft picks” mean? :)

In the Cardinals' case, it probably best relates to batting average or the number of draft picks the Cardinals get right over a certain number of years.

I know some posters have studied this, but I haven't.

My guess is they are hitting in the low .200. Maybe someone can shed light on the subject.
 

Solar7

Go Suns
Joined
May 18, 2002
Posts
10,823
Reaction score
11,226
Location
Las Vegas, NV
In the Cardinals' case, it probably best relates to batting average or the number of draft picks the Cardinals get right over a certain number of years.

I know some posters have studied this, but I haven't.

My guess is they are hitting in the low .200. Maybe someone can shed light on the subject.
We've been literally dead last in the league for the past 6-7 years. I don't feel like updating any reporter's work with how useless our 2021 & 2022 already appear to be.
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
105,945
Reaction score
45,004
We've been literally dead last in the league for the past 6-7 years. I don't feel like updating any reporter's work with how useless our 2021 & 2022 already appear to be.

Yeah, I know it's not good. I hope the Cardinals have taken steps to improving their draft beyond replacing Keim.

Actually, it appears they are basing their future on good drafts.
 
Top