QB Situation- my $.02

[This_Guy]

So I've been kind of quiet, but I thought I'd throw some thoughts in now. I stayed quiet because I thought the QB play spoke for itself and the outcome was somewhat inevitable.

Going back to the pre-season, I said King was a much better QB than McCown and got roasted for it.

Back then, I said that McCown, for all his nice physical attributes, had no pocket presense or poise, can't feel the rush and doesn't see the whole field. I think it's fair to say I was on the right track there.

For all the talk about McCown's being "young" or "inexperienced", I think you need a quick reality check. This is McCown's 3rd year in the league and his sixth start. If he doesn't have any of the above mentioned traits by now, he won't get them any time soon if at all. It's one thing if he's making mistakes that can be corrected, but the qualities that McCown lacks are innate, not learned.

None of the 1st, 2nd or 3rd year QBs are playing nearly that badly. They are inconsistent and still learning for sure, but none have been nearly as bad. Think about this comparison, going into his 3rd season in the league, King had a record of 14-7, went to the playoffs twice and hasn't played since. Anyone wonder if King has developed any? What if he's better than he was in his second season (hint: he is)?

As for the play of the OL, yes it is not good. But I believe the Cards line is better than most think. For all the talk that McCown can't be fairly judged because he's running for his life, notice that King did not run for his life once. McCown's lack of pocket awareness is making the OL look much much worse than it is. The OL and running game will both improve dramatically with King at QB.

Had King played the last 3 games, the Cards would probably be 2-1 with a shot to be 3-0. It's really not that far fetched. This idea that the Cards need to ride McCown until you are 0-8 is stupid.

Think about this......

If I was right about McCown when no one else thought so, what if...just what if I am right about King as well. Here's a hint: He's not the caretaker you think he is. The Cards can be in the playoffs THIS YEAR if King is the QB by half time next week.

 

[clif]

king will not be any better than McCown.. there are no playmakers on this offense, and they are behind a suspect line at best.

 

[CaptTurbo]

For all the mccown apologists I just ask why only cards qb's need this time to adjust

Brady
Pennington
Leftwich
Palmer (sat just like mccown for a year)
Rothlisburgermeister

and dozens more look fine, not a deer in headlights.

 

[clif]

For all the mccown apologists I just ask why only cards qb's need this time to adjust

Brady
Pennington
Leftwich
Palmer (sat just like mccown for a year)
Rothlisburgermeister

and dozens more look fine, not a deer in headlights.

weapons, consistent offense.

palmer.??? the guy threw how many picks yesterday??

 

[TheCardFan]

Going back to the pre-season, I said King was a much better QB than McCown and got roasted for it. Still a crazy statement.

For all the talk about McCown's being "young" or "inexperienced", I think you need a quick reality check. This is McCown's 3rd year in the league and his sixth start. 6th start! Exactly!

If he doesn't have any of the above mentioned traits by now, he won't get them any time soon if at all. It's one thing if he's making mistakes that can be corrected, but the qualities that McCown lacks are innate, not learned. What needs to be corrected is more time to check his WR's. He was what 20 for 26 when he could get the ball off...no INT's. He needs to make better decisions yes...but c'mon!

None of the 1st, 2nd or 3rd year QBs are playing nearly that badly. They are inconsistent and still learning for sure, but none have been nearly as bad. Carson Palmer threw into double coverge for 3 picks yesterday...he was #1 overall.

Think about this comparison, going into his 3rd season in the league, King had a record of 14-7, went to the playoffs twice and hasn't played since. Anyone wonder if King has developed any? What if he's better than he was in his second season (hint: he is)? Anyone think he benefited from one of the most dominating defenses in NFL history...he was ridiculed each week because they couldn't score!

Think about this......

If I was right about McCown when no one else thought so, what if...just what if I am right about King as well. Here's a hint: He's not the caretaker you think he is. The Cards can be in the playoffs THIS YEAR if King is the QB by half time next week. :notworthy

 

[ajcardfan]

For all the mccown apologists I just ask why only cards qb's need this time to adjust

Brady
Pennington
Leftwich
Palmer (sat just like mccown for a year)
Rothlisburgermeister

and dozens more look fine, not a deer in headlights.

How about that AJ Feeley!

 

[TheCardFan]

For all the mccown apologists I just ask why only cards qb's need this time to adjust

Brady
Pennington
Leftwich
Palmer (sat just like mccown for a year)
Rothlisburgermeister

and dozens more look fine, not a deer in headlights.

I am not saying the McCown is the QB of the future but he has the potential that King lacks. King is a stop gap measure and might end up starting before the season is over but I think McCown continues to improve.

Brady is a freak.
Pennington and Leftwich were #1 picks.
Palmer is a bust IMO, same with David Carr.
Roth hasn't looked all that dominating either but he certainly has the physical tools.

I wanted Leftwich last year but that didn't happen. If putting King in there would make us a playoff team...why on earth would Green not do it? Crazy.

 

[This_Guy]

Anyone think he benefited from one of the most dominating defenses in NFL history...he was ridiculed each week because they couldn't score!

A comical argument.

Seems to me that McCown benefited from a defense that didn't allow ONE SINGLE TOUCHDOWN yesterday, but it didn't mean a damn thing as far as helping the offense do anything.

If you want, I can tear up the rest of your argument pretty quickly as well.

 

[clif]

A comical argument.

Seems to me that McCown benefited from a defense that didn't allow ONE SINGLE TOUCHDOWN yesterday, but it didn't mean a damn thing as far as helping the offense do anything.

If you want, I can tear up the rest of your argument pretty quickly as well.

how about mine?

 

[This_Guy]

Brady is a freak.
Pennington and Leftwich were #1 picks.
Palmer is a bust IMO, same with David Carr.
Roth hasn't looked all that dominating either but he certainly has the physical tools..

Brady is a freak? Not very fast, not that big, not much of an arm. What he does have is great poise, great vision, great pocket presence and great accuracy. Just out of curiosity, which of those things does King not possess?

Pennington and Leftwich were 1st rounders, King was a second rounder, McCown a third rounder. Doesn't matter, since Brady was a 6th rounder, Montana a 3rd rounder, Delhomme and Warner were undrafted....I could go on.

Wait- So you want to let 3rd year McCown "develop" even though he's shown nothing, yet you want to label 2nd year Palmer making his 3rd start a bust.....not following that logic.

David Carr led a drive that won the game for his team yesterday....McCown, short of a hail mary, hasn't won a game in the NFL.

Rothlisberger hasn't been dominating? He's played 1 game in hurricane conditions and he still got his team in the end zone. Big Ben is the real deal.

 

[SECTION 11]

how about mine?

What argument? That there's no playmakers and no consistent offense? That's about as subjective an argument as you can make.

This_Guy, incessant man-love for King aside, is dead on so far.
The most damning argument is that King did not run for his life. That's simply indefensible.

 

[Pariah]

I said King was a much better QB than McCown

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[clif]

What argument? That there's no playmakers and no consistent offense? That's about as subjective an argument as you can make.

This_Guy, incessant man-love for King aside, is dead on so far.
The most damning argument is that King did not run for his life. That's simply indefensible.

that he didn't run for his life on what 10 plays? give me a break. the guy is a nice backup, but trying to compare him to other QB's is a weak arguement for him.

the others have guys that can get open except for maybe Palmer who is stinking it up

EDIT: and by the way I believe the rest have been under the same offense for a couple of years now.

 

[ChandlerCard]

THe O-line looked better yesterday than a week ago. McCown has the potential to get better every week, while King is a known. McCown made some big-time plays yesterday. He'll learn the fastest if he continues to play and if Denny pulls him when he gets too out-of-control. I would have liked to see him pulled earlier and then put back in later.

 

[vince56]

THe O-line looked better yesterday than a week ago.

Maybe you're right. I mean, it only took Clement 2 plays into the game to false start this week. Good job Anthony

 

[SECTION 11]

that he didn't run for his life on what 10 plays? give me a break. the guy is a nice backup, but trying to compare him to other QB's is a weak arguement for him.

I'm not comparing him to other QB's, I'm comparing him to McCown in the same offense. King looked better.
Get the snap, drop back, step up and fire. King does it, McCown doesn't.

McCown is happy feet personified. The yards he's losing on sacks is comical.
McCown's scrambles are mind numbing. Kerney even said that they studied him running with the ball like a spaz because one shot to his arm and he's going to fumble it.

 

[This_Guy]

how about mine?

OK, if you want.

Tony Dungy was FIRED for his offensive scheme, which was ball control, field position and defense. Dungy built that franchise from the "Yucs" and still got fired.

The Bucs had a ROOKIE at QB in the '99 NFC Championship and the starting offensive line was:

LT: Pete Pierson
LG: Jorge Diaz
C: Tony Mayberry
RG: Frank Middleton
RT: George Hegamin

Ever heard of any of those guys? Didn't think so (besides Middleton). Mike Alstott and Warrick Dunn split the carries and neither averaged 4.0 yards per carry behind that line.

The top WR's on that team were Bert Emmanuel, Jacquez Green and Reidel Anthony. TE was Dave Moore. Any of those guys ever scare a defensive coordinator?

No need to debate whether that team was better than this Cards team. King as a ROOKIE got that team to the NFC Championship team. Did the defense play a part, of course. But you can't ask for better than a defense that allows 6 points (like yesterday).

 

[clif]

I'm not comparing him to other QB's, I'm comparing him to McCown in the same offense. King looked better.
Get the snap, drop back, step up and fire. King does it, McCown doesn't.

McCown is happy feet personified. The yards he's losing on sacks is comical.
McCown's scrambles are mind numbing. Kerney even said that they studied him running with the ball like a spaz because one shot to his arm and he's going to fumble it.

I agree with that, but my arguement was to combat what swd1974 was saying trying to compare McCown to others he listed.

McCown will get better with more weapons and he has a brighter future. If we are talking about who could lead the team this year... King, but its about the future and everyone knows it.

 

[clif]

OK, if you want.

Tony Dungy was FIRED for his offensive scheme, which was ball control, field position and defense. Dungy built that franchise from the "Yucs" and still got fired.

The Bucs had a ROOKIE at QB in the '99 NFC Championship and the starting offensive line was:

LT: Pete Pierson
LG: Jorge Diaz
C: Tony Mayberry
RG: Frank Middleton
RT: George Hegamin

Ever heard of any of those guys? Didn't think so (besides Middleton). Mike Alstott and Warrick Dunn split the carries and neither averaged 4.0 yards per carry behind that line.

The top WR's on that team were Bert Emmanuel, Jacquez Green and Reidel Anthony. TE was Dave Moore. Any of those guys ever scare a defensive coordinator?

No need to debate whether that team was better than this Cards team. King as a ROOKIE got that team to the NFC Championship team. Did the defense play a part, of course. But you can't ask for better than a defense that allows 6 points (like yesterday).

So you are saying that shaun king was the piece that put them over the top?

You got to be kidding me right?

Very nice player. game breaker? no Nice resume? yes. Not the answer at QB.

 

[ChandlerCard]

McCown has decent weapons, but his experience is low. He's still seeing the game at 90 mph.

 

[SECTION 11]

McCown will get better with more weapons and he has a brighter future.

You have no idea if this is true, and there's nothing about Green's track record that says, "Wait" when it comes to QB's.

I think zero TD's in three games says, "Give King a Shot" written in huge red letters.

 

[Redheart]

How about that King over-threw a open BJ to stop the drive on third down, a pass that McCown had been making all day? King made some good throws, then stalled in the Redzone with that over-throw; result was a FG.

King did a good job of staying in the pocket and reading the blitz and throwing to the blitz side. He was also sacked once in his series where it looked like he went down way to easy and could have avoided it by better movement in the pocket.

McCown BIGGEST and most consistant mistake was not protecting the ball with two hands when avoiding sacks or trying to run that QB draw; learning how to protect the ball is something than can easily be corrected; and it SHOULD have been corrected prior to that game because it is something he had a problem with before (Pats game). McCown was ON-FIRE with his arm, and led this team to what should have been THREE TD's or FGs.

King would have been eaten alive in the Pats game; the only thing that saved a dozen more sacks is that McCown WAS running like a deer.

 

[SECTION 11]

He's still seeing the game at 90 mph.

He's definately seeing the rush at 90 mph.

No more running backwards. I don't care what the situation is.

 

[SECTION 11]

King would have been eaten alive in the Pats game; the only thing that saved a dozen more sacks is that McCown WAS running like a deer.

Or he would have thrown against the blitz with success, we'll never know.

 

[TheCardFan]

A comical argument.

Seems to me that McCown benefited from a defense that didn't allow ONE SINGLE TOUCHDOWN yesterday, but it didn't mean a damn thing as far as helping the offense do anything.

If you want, I can tear up the rest of your argument pretty quickly as well.

So your comparing our defense to Tampa Bays when King was there? LOL!