Preseason: Suns @ Lakers Wednesday game thread, 10-5-2022

AzStevenCal

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I don't know why, but I just watched a clip from undisputed and they are talking up the Lakers as Western confrence contenders after that game.

The Suns playing like crap does not mean the Lakers are good.
Well, they outplayed us, quite easily, even without Anthony Davis so I can see some justification for rising expectations there. In the end though, I expect AD to miss too many games, LBJ to also struggle as the season progresses and Westbrook to return to his recent form. Also, I'm hoping we aren't as bad as we looked when our best met their best.
 

Covert Rain

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Well, they outplayed us, quite easily, even without Anthony Davis so I can see some justification for rising expectations there. In the end though, I expect AD to miss too many games, LBJ to also struggle as the season progresses and Westbrook to return to his recent form. Also, I'm hoping we aren't as bad as we looked when our best met their best.
As expected, for me, what has stood out is our lack of physicality/toughness. I think that is often mistaken for playing hard. We have guys that play hard. Maybe it's just the new faces, the dynamic changing a bit. However, last year, it felt like we simply played tougher and were more physical than many teams during the season. I don't get this vibe at all from this team but it's still early. The Lakers didn't have AD and we looked really soft in the paint. Also, Dario is going to add a spark offensively, but I don't think he helps us defensively at all. This team is missing the "nasty" we had last season IMO.
 

cheesebeef

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As expected, for me, what has stood out is our lack of physicality/toughness. I think that is often mistaken for playing hard. We have guys that play hard. Maybe it's just the new faces, the dynamic changing a bit. However, last year, it felt like we simply played tougher and were more physical than many teams during the season. I don't get this vibe at all from this team but it's still early. The Lakers didn't have AD and we looked really soft in the paint. Also, Dario is going to add a spark offensively, but I don't think he helps us defensively at all.
Yup. Again, I go back to the 2008 Suns. 2007 squad had everything… scoring, playmaking but also toughness with KT and Raja. The next year without KT or any other adequate replacement our D was tissue paper soft and that led to the Shaq trade.

This team is going to suffer the same fate swapping out McGee for KT, only worse because this team is also jettisoning it’s Raja Bell with Crowder also.

On a team as small as we are, You just can’t lose your best back up big man AND your toughest/grit guy without any replacements.
 

Covert Rain

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Yup. Again, I go back to the 2008 Suns. 2007 squad had everything… scoring, playmaking but also toughness with KT and Raja. The next year without KT or any other adequate replacement our D was tissue paper soft and that led to the Shaq trade.

This team is going to suffer the same fate swapping out McGee for KT, only worse because this team is also jettisoning it’s Raja Bell with Crowder also.

On a team as small as we are, You just can’t lose your best back up big man AND your toughest/grit guy without any replacements.
This. We are potentially shedding McGee, Crowder without really replacing them (jury is still out on what we can get for Crowder). You know what that means? You are really really really depending on Ayton to step up his aggressiveness and physical play.
 

AzStevenCal

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This. We are potentially shedding McGee, Crowder without really replacing them (jury is still out on what we can get for Crowder). You know what that means? You are really really really depending on Ayton to step up his aggressiveness and physical play.
I don't think losing Javale by himself was a major loss but losing Javale AND Jae, that's a big loss. If they can't fix things with Crowder it might be time to reevaluate our expectations. I'm starting to think I might have been generous suggesting we'd win 54 games this season.
 

Covert Rain

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I don't think losing Javale by himself was a major loss but losing Javale AND Jae, that's a big loss. If they can't fix things with Crowder it might be time to reevaluate our expectations. I'm starting to think I might have been generous suggesting we'd win 54 games this season.
It's hard to quantify what McGee brought looking just statistically. However, it was a huge plus to bring that guy in when Ayton got into foul trouble or didn't have it. Even in games where Ayton wasn't playing well there was little drop off defensively. That is huge IMO. Even if we still had Jae? That wasn't going to shore up the paint play the last two games. Also, "nasty" doesn't show up on a stat line.
 

Proximo

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Well, they outplayed us, quite easily, even without Anthony Davis so I can see some justification for rising expectations there. In the end though, I expect AD to miss too many games, LBJ to also struggle as the season progresses and Westbrook to return to his recent form. Also, I'm hoping we aren't as bad as we looked when our best met their best.
They outplayed us in that game, but these are essentially the same two teams as last season.

No way are the Lakers going to go from missing the playoffs to in contention for winning the West. Not buying that at all - even if they stayed healthy, which they won't.
 

cheesebeef

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I don't think losing Javale by himself was a major loss but losing Javale AND Jae, that's a big loss. If they can't fix things with Crowder it might be time to reevaluate our expectations. I'm starting to think I might have been generous suggesting we'd win 54 games this season.
Losing both is really a killer.
 

95pro

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This. We are potentially shedding McGee, Crowder without really replacing them (jury is still out on what we can get for Crowder). You know what that means? You are really really really depending on Ayton to step up his aggressiveness and physical play.

Got paid, although it's preseason, i didn't see much of that with Davis out.
 

cheesebeef

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Got paid, although it's preseason, i didn't see much of that with Davis out.
Didn’t see it last night, but with it being preseason, I’ll withhold judgement until the real bullets start flying.
 

95pro

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Didn’t see it last night, but with it being preseason, I’ll withhold judgement until the real bullets start flying.

So dont take into account Ayton's entire pro career and hope he'll come around when the real season starts?
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I don't think losing Javale by himself was a major loss but losing Javale AND Jae, that's a big loss. If they can't fix things with Crowder it might be time to reevaluate our expectations. I'm starting to think I might have been generous suggesting we'd win 54 games this season.
I just don’t understand how so many of you minimize mcgees contributions when he put up 9pts and 7rebs and a block in under 16 minutes per game while shooting 63% from the field. I think the mavericks loss made a lot of you loco in regards to his value.
 

AzStevenCal

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I just don’t understand how so many of you minimize mcgees contributions when he put up 9pts and 7rebs and a block in under 16 minutes per game while shooting 63% from the field. I think the mavericks loss made a lot of you loco in regards to his value.
I'm not trying to minimize his loss, I just think a full season of Bismack plus Saric negates some of that loss. So while I still wish he was here, I don't think it's a huge deal. But when you also throw in Jae, it becomes a big hit because they were our two most effective physical players.

I thought McGee was great the first half of the season but his impact was lessened in the second half and the postseason.
 

cheesebeef

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So dont take into account Ayton's entire pro career and hope he'll come around when the real season starts?
You’ve been around here long enough to know that I’m one of the biggest Ayton doubters.

But I DGAF about anything in preseason.
 
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I just don’t understand how so many of you minimize mcgees contributions when he put up 9pts and 7rebs and a block in under 16 minutes per game while shooting 63% from the field. I think the mavericks loss made a lot of you loco in regards to his value.

If the Suns had replaced Crowder and added another rotation point guard/shooting guard, the loss of McGee wouldn't be as significant.

However, the Suns have done neither, so their loss is huge.
 

Covert Rain

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I'm not trying to minimize his loss, I just think a full season of Bismack plus Saric negates some of that loss. So while I still wish he was here, I don't think it's a huge deal. But when you also throw in Jae, it becomes a big hit because they were our two most effective physical players.

I thought McGee was great the first half of the season but his impact was lessened in the second half and the postseason.
Our paint play numbers don't support a drop off at all second half of the season. We were pretty consistent until players were out and the playoffs. Everything dropped off a cliff come playoff time. Our interior play and overall defense was the best it's been a very long time in terms of consistency.
 

Chaplin

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I don't think losing Javale by himself was a major loss but losing Javale AND Jae, that's a big loss. If they can't fix things with Crowder it might be time to reevaluate our expectations. I'm starting to think I might have been generous suggesting we'd win 54 games this season.
I can agree with that.
 

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