Prediction: Vance will be gone after this year

Chopper0080

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He’s toast. I think he maybe has a team option, but after Simmons and Collins, he’ll be the scapegoat this season—externally for a disappointing record, internally because he wouldn’t play Keims guys.
Agreed 100%. Vance has been better than I thought in AZ but his inability to get on the same page as Keim and adjust to make young players work will be the end of him. On Keim too, but Bidwill gave him the extension.
 

tnmike

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He’s toast. I think he maybe has a team option, but after Simmons and Collins, he’ll be the scapegoat this season—externally for a disappointing record, internally because he wouldn’t play Keims guys.
 

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BullheadCardFan

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This is a bad take
I believe he should have been replaced by a DC with a more user friendly system that allows the young players to assimilate quicker and allows players to react first without hesitating to think about the system.

Someone like Wade Phillips as an example

So in my opinion he should have been gone already
 

Chopper0080

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Keim has supplied Vance with mostly mediocrity & Vance has overachieved with it.

It’s a Keim problem, not a Vance problem.

K9 is right.
Disagree to a point. Vance was crying for defensive personnel help and Keim used resources to get him several players. Simmons, Jalen, Golden, Collins, Wilson, and Watt all after year 1. It is on Vance to let Keim know what he needs. Basically it is on both of them. Both stubborn guys who refuse to communicate.
 

PACardsFan

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He’s toast. I think he maybe has a team option, but after Simmons and Collins, he’ll be the scapegoat this season—externally for a disappointing record, internally because he wouldn’t play Keims guys.
Agree. With Keim & Kingsbury under contract for the next 6 years, there‘s only one Bidwillian move left. Not that I like Vance, but from a money standpoint, only Vance is left to blame should this season go sideways.
 

cheesebeef

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I’d put a grand on this if it came up on one of the betting sites.

He’s definitely gonna be the sacrificial lamb if the team looks like the end of last season.
 

HairZach

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I gonna say that I think Vance is gonna have a good year. The camp reports of us running a 4-3 base defense with Simmons being used as a nickelback with two other ILBs on the field have intrigued me. I know we have holes on the roster, but if we can get our 1st round LBs to perform maybe they can be papered over.
 

Chopper0080

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I gonna say that I think Vance is gonna have a good year. The camp reports of us running a 4-3 base defense with Simmons being used as a nickelback with two other ILBs on the field have intrigued me. I know we have holes on the roster, but if we can get our 1st round LBs to perform maybe they can be papered over.
You aren’t wrong that this could be Simmons as essentially a WILL in a 4-3 but we won’t know until games get here and we see snap counts.
 

oaken1

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it was clear when vance didnt get extended... I think Kliffs head coach tutorial will be over and they will find a coordinator for the defense rather than a HC/Defense
 

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People keep underrating and dismissing Vance. Yet he's delivered 2 good defenses the last 2 years. Considerably better than the offense per DVOA. I don't see him going anywhere unless hired away.

Vance had Simmons forced on him and is now trying to correct the mistake of making him an ILB. I said from day 1 he was a safety and didn't have the instincts to play inside backer.

I'm not mad at Vance. I'm mad at the Org for drafting another athletic hybrid and wasting 2 years trying to make him something he never was. They never learn.
 

BritCard

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The reality is that it has taken three seasons for Vance and the Cardinals to figure out something that this message board figured out pre-draft.

Its 2, but I don't blame Vance.

I think it was obvious that he didn't see Simmons as a linebacker and the move was forced on him.
 

BritCard

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To be fair @tnmike it was pretty obvious he had no instincts to play ILB down in the box. The most he ever played that position was in the championship final when that dude got kicked out of the game, and he was a ghost.

People used to say he played linebacker because he had 120 snaps at SLB often outside the tackle. But he always had a specific role with little read and react responsibilities.

I do think he's going to play some ILB but with specific roles in mind depending on the situation.

I always thought Simmons could be an elite strong safety but we don't have an opening at safety.
 
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MadCardDisease

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Kliff got all of the new shiny toys this year on offense. The defense was somewhat neglected at the offenses expense. I think it is on Kliff and the offense to produce this season.

Vance has been pretty good at cobbling together a decent defense. He has his work cut out for him this season. With as many holes as the defense has this season it would be hard to pin it all on Vance if the defense struggles.
 

football karma

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You aren’t wrong that this could be Simmons as essentially a WILL in a 4-3 but we won’t know until games get here and we see snap counts.
they sure have drafted personnel for a 4-3

i suppose a base could be:

Watt- DT-DT-Zach Allen, with Simmons, Vigil and Collins as your Will, Mike and Sam for running downs.

if a team goes 11 personnel -- then one of the DTs comes off, Golden comes in, Allen slides inside.

dime one of Vigil or Collins comes out, third CB comes in
 

BritCard

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they sure have drafted personnel for a 4-3

i suppose a base could be:

Watt- DT-DT-Zach Allen, with Simmons, Vigil and Collins as your Will, Mike and Sam for running downs.

if a team goes 11 personnel -- then one of the DTs comes off, Golden comes in, Allen slides inside.

dime one of Vigil or Collins comes out, third CB comes in

They drafted 2 very specific OLB's in Sanders and Luketa who I don't ever see playing with their hand in the dirt.

I wonder if they might be more variable depending on who they play? Bowles used to do something similar. More 4-3 vs some teams, 3-4 vs others. Mix it up.

I thought they might use Simmons instead of a slot corner in Nickel. So their 4-3 looks would be the same as base 4-3, but Kliff said he wants Murphy playing less outside.
 

QuebecCard

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Disagree to a point. Vance was crying for defensive personnel help and Keim used resources to get him several players. Simmons, Jalen, Golden, Collins, Wilson, and Watt all after year 1. It is on Vance to let Keim know what he needs. Basically it is on both of them. Both stubborn guys who refuse to communicate.

Source?
 

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