Pictures of the catch.
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YEP
MigratingOsprey
Thank You Paul!
game had horrible officiating - that is a good view though and is right on .... the missed PI was the bigger issue on that play
tate had his left arm between the ball and the body and secured his right arm to it when both were falling to the ground ....as we all know with the archaic NFL rules you don't have a reception (offensive or defensive) until the receiving motion is completed ... you don't complete the motion with 1 foot on the ground
simultaneous possession - seahawks TD
refs really screwed what should have been a great game though - was rough to watch all night
Thank you.
MigratingOsprey
Thank You Paul!
i wouldn't thank me too much - i'm a seahawks fan
but if you break down the pieces of a catch and really look at it, it's not that bad
however, with replacement officials they are going to get roasted on it because it's the vogue thing to do
they blew an offensive PI on that - the PI on chancellor was horrible, the holding on okung was horrible, there were so many missed holds during the 2nd half it was bad ....... when you have close to 30 penalties in a game it's a joke and these refs completely mucked up the stl & wash game last week
i think this game is the "make it right moment" that will give the refs some leverage ... although as we know they would never mess up a critical TD call late in the game, right?!
but if you break down the pieces of a catch and really look at it, it's not that bad
however, with replacement officials they are going to get roasted on it because it's the vogue thing to do
they blew an offensive PI on that - the PI on chancellor was horrible, the holding on okung was horrible, there were so many missed holds during the 2nd half it was bad ....... when you have close to 30 penalties in a game it's a joke and these refs completely mucked up the stl & wash game last week
i think this game is the "make it right moment" that will give the refs some leverage ... although as we know they would never mess up a critical TD call late in the game, right?!
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MigratingOsprey
Thank You Paul!
I agree
Seattle has had this hit them in the past with losing out on the simultaneous possession
fwiw I think the roughing call on wilson was a pretty poor one and they should have called offensive PI on the hail mary attempt
i just think on the simultaneous possession it was a close call - all the talk about having "more of the ball" or the ball closer to your chest just doesn't matter ....... at the apex the defender had both hands on the ball and tate had his left between the ball and the body ... on the way down he secured the ball with his right hand and both players carried that motion to the ground and through the "action of the catch"
sucks though that there is a deserved taint on the game - both teams played a good defensive game - GB made some excellent 2nd half adjustments and seattle's D was on fire the 1st half ... all of that will be lost
that ref crew definitely wasn't ready for primetime and all the bad officiated set the stage for the ending, which IMO contained a bad call and a good call all in one which kind of sums up the game
neither team nor fanbase was going to be happy tonight and the refs did make their impression regardless of how they ruled the possession of that last play
Seattle has had this hit them in the past with losing out on the simultaneous possession
fwiw I think the roughing call on wilson was a pretty poor one and they should have called offensive PI on the hail mary attempt
i just think on the simultaneous possession it was a close call - all the talk about having "more of the ball" or the ball closer to your chest just doesn't matter ....... at the apex the defender had both hands on the ball and tate had his left between the ball and the body ... on the way down he secured the ball with his right hand and both players carried that motion to the ground and through the "action of the catch"
sucks though that there is a deserved taint on the game - both teams played a good defensive game - GB made some excellent 2nd half adjustments and seattle's D was on fire the 1st half ... all of that will be lost
that ref crew definitely wasn't ready for primetime and all the bad officiated set the stage for the ending, which IMO contained a bad call and a good call all in one which kind of sums up the game
neither team nor fanbase was going to be happy tonight and the refs did make their impression regardless of how they ruled the possession of that last play
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Now you just have to explain how Tate "caught" the ball. He didn't, he caught Jennings and then as they went down he tried to pull the ball out of Jennings hands.
The key part of simultaneous catch is that both players have to CATCH the ball, Tate didn't.
Pereira knows the rules better than any of us and he clearly said repeatedly Jennings had the ball, it's not a simultaneous catch for the WR to then put his hands around the guy and try to grab the ball.
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Pereira says it's a bad call. Gerry Austin ex NFL ref says it's a bad call, Jerry Markbreit 30 year NFL ref said it's a bad call.
ESPN had the rule going by at the bottom during Markbreit's comments the rule clearly states simultaneous catch means both players catch the ball NOT that one player catches it and then the other comes in and gets his hands on it.
They showed slow motion as Markbreit commented there's Jennings catching the ball one foot down, there's the other foot down as they fall, there's Tate reaching in to get his hands on the ball. He also pointed out the Offensive PI because when he was a ref he was "downgraded" for not calling OPI in a situation like that where he said "it was nowhere near as overt as the one last night was."
That is he got demoted by the NFL for not making that call so the you can't call that then stuff is completely wrong. NFL refs literally have been demoted for NOT calling that then.
He also pointed out by rule the game ends on an offensive foul so if they simply call PI, Green Bay wins, and that's why that's the rule, so that offensive players won't do what Tate did on the last play figuring hey if they call it we get another play.
HOrrible
ESPN had the rule going by at the bottom during Markbreit's comments the rule clearly states simultaneous catch means both players catch the ball NOT that one player catches it and then the other comes in and gets his hands on it.
They showed slow motion as Markbreit commented there's Jennings catching the ball one foot down, there's the other foot down as they fall, there's Tate reaching in to get his hands on the ball. He also pointed out the Offensive PI because when he was a ref he was "downgraded" for not calling OPI in a situation like that where he said "it was nowhere near as overt as the one last night was."
That is he got demoted by the NFL for not making that call so the you can't call that then stuff is completely wrong. NFL refs literally have been demoted for NOT calling that then.
He also pointed out by rule the game ends on an offensive foul so if they simply call PI, Green Bay wins, and that's why that's the rule, so that offensive players won't do what Tate did on the last play figuring hey if they call it we get another play.
HOrrible
82CardsGrad
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It's indisputable Russ... Got a text this morning from a "friend" who was standing 30 feet from where the play took place. He of course commented on a few other calls that were hideous, but, regarding this play, he said the one black ref was very certain that it wasn't a catch (he also had the best, closest view), but, the other ref came over and ruled a TD. Chaos ensued and for some odd reason, the officials never came together to discuss the play. The Head Ref simply went straight to the replay booth - which, as it turns out, "Simulataneous Possession" calls are not reviewable!
What a huge mess...
MigratingOsprey
Thank You Paul!
What do you expect them to say?!
Markbreit has been off his rocker the past 2 weeks and was recently fired by the NFL.
Pereira is a shill and had no problem defending every call in the universe when he was with the league - he's been on the "integrity of the game" kick and will do nothing to counter his own stance, this just adds fuel to his message which for him right now is the most important thing
Any of the ex-refs (especially the long term ones) have been through this - they sat on the sidelines when replacement officials were working and no way, no how are they going to say a single thing positive about "scab refs" when their union bretheren are locked out - they are going to do whatever they can to make noise and increase the leverage of their own
here is one notable one with "real refs"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4ZFs57d-xc
82CardsGrad
7 x 70
Not a comparable play to what took place last night...
ryanshaug
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As others have said you have to actually CATCH THE BALL for it to be a simultaneous catch not just get your ARM in there. Give me a break.
ryanshaug
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Really? Seriously? Delusional. As is every other Seahawk lover this morning.
MigratingOsprey
Thank You Paul!
sure it is .... cromartie had the ball with austin having a hand between ball and defender - cromartie pulled it to his body and austin secured the ball with his other hand as they went to the ground
if I could find it I would bring up the one that was just like that which went against seattle a couple years ago
bad officiating all night put them in a position to even make that play - if they don't call a completely phantom PI call on the GB TD drive seattle has the ball with the lead with 8 minutes to go
but it was bad on both sides - this crew is just not good - they weren't good last week in the washington/st louis game and i'm sure they will be even worse next week
which is a shame because that should have been a good game, memorable for some really good seattle defense and the calm & cool of aaron rodgers in front of a great environment - instead all of that is washed away
if I could find it I would bring up the one that was just like that which went against seattle a couple years ago
bad officiating all night put them in a position to even make that play - if they don't call a completely phantom PI call on the GB TD drive seattle has the ball with the lead with 8 minutes to go
but it was bad on both sides - this crew is just not good - they weren't good last week in the washington/st louis game and i'm sure they will be even worse next week
which is a shame because that should have been a good game, memorable for some really good seattle defense and the calm & cool of aaron rodgers in front of a great environment - instead all of that is washed away
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Markbreit talked about that by rule the refs are supposed to huddle on a disputed call and see who had the best view and who is most sure of their call. they didn't do that so the one ref who called a TD overruled everyone which is a violation of refererr protocol.
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I think they know the rules better than any of us do and they're all in agreement.
There were bad calls all night the missed PI on Woodson on the last drive. Hell if you want to get technical the only reason Wilson gets that throw off is holding wasn't called in the backfield.
But that last part of the play is conclusively not a simulataneous catch, Tate NEVER caught the ball. He just reached in and got his hands on the ball after the fact. That's not simultaneous and the rule is very specific they were showing it as Markbreit was talking.
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Not even close to comparable.
MigratingOsprey
Thank You Paul!
sure it is (we can go in this circle for hours if you want.............. nature of opinions and all...............)
People are mixing issues here.
It's not a TD because it was preceded by an OPI. Fine. No one has disputed that.
But where people go wrong is the simultaneous catch. GB CB did not have full control of the ball. In other terms, he did not complete the catch. When his BOTH feet touched the ground, it was joint with Tate.
Media rule ignorants, regular ref lovers and GB bandwagons are whining.
I have spent enough time watching the play over and over frame by frame and I believe it was the right call.
People disagree. Fact of life.
Move on
It's not a TD because it was preceded by an OPI. Fine. No one has disputed that.
But where people go wrong is the simultaneous catch. GB CB did not have full control of the ball. In other terms, he did not complete the catch. When his BOTH feet touched the ground, it was joint with Tate.
Media rule ignorants, regular ref lovers and GB bandwagons are whining.
I have spent enough time watching the play over and over frame by frame and I believe it was the right call.
People disagree. Fact of life.
Move on
InfiniteRed
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The thing is, you are correct is it was NOT a simultaneous catch. BUT it was an interception. Jennings DID catch the ball and had control over it to start with. The rule is:
If a pass is caught simultaneously by two legible opponents, and both retain it, the ball belongs to the offense. (This is the part you quote)
The part you miss is:
It is not a simultaneous catch if a player gains control first (Jennings) and an opponent subsequently gains joint control (Tate).
Not a catch by Tate, not a simultaneous catch either, it was an interception.
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You're the one that's mixing the issue, he DID have control of the ball hehad it pinned to his chest. ESPN has the slow mo replay you can see the one foot down ball pinned to his chest. As he comes down the other foot comes down and at that time Tate has one hand just touching the top of the ball. At that point it's over, it's an INT game over.
They have been showign it all morning it's not us that is misinterpreting the rule it's you. tate NEVER had control of the ball he never caught it.
I'm sure the NFL will say they stand behind the refs because they have to, if they don't they're simply admitting the game can't function as well without the real refs and they lose all bargaining power.
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Yes but in this case I'm pretty confident if you were say a Titans fan you wouldn't be disagreeing with me.
On the play you showed Cromartie has the ball in his hands and Austin reaches in and gets the ball in HIS hands too. Cromartie doesn't have the ball pinned to his chest. Austin didn't come in with his right hand on Cromarties neck, his left hand between his legs and then as they go to the ground reach in and put his hands on the ball. That's what Tate did.
