OTAs, May 23-25, Jun 1-3, Jun 6-9, 2022.

BritCard

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One is a hope and the other is an

one is a hope and one is an observation. Neither are bad. Just different.

Not at all. My prediction that Moore and Collins will both be good this year is based on what I saw of them last year. How they were used is not their fault. This org as a history of under using and misusing rookies.

I wanted to draft Marco Wilson, but I didn't see enough from him last year to be confident in what we will get this year. But I saw flashes from both Moore and Collins that gives me confidence in both.

And it doesn't really address why it's ok to repeat one, but apparently not the other.
 

Chopper0080

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I've said it before and I'll say it again.

Zaven Collins is going to have a great season.
That is going to be tough if he doesn't start calling the defense mistake free in the next 3 months. It is not as much of a knock on Zaven as it is a reality with Vance. He seems to want his ILB to call the defense and if Zaven can't, Vigil will and Vance will want him on the field to do so.
 

cardsfanmd

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Huh, go figure. Bad practices and mental errors. So exactly what I said all season as to why he was sitting behind hicks and why he wasn’t a good player last season. Here’s hoping he’s improved the mental side of the game this year!
And two shoulder injuries…
 

Stout

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Not at all. My prediction that Moore and Collins will both be good this year is based on what I saw of them last year. How they were used is not their fault. This org as a history of under using and misusing rookies.

I wanted to draft Marco Wilson, but I didn't see enough from him last year to be confident in what we will get this year. But I saw flashes from both Moore and Collins that gives me confidence in both.

And it doesn't really address why it's ok to repeat one, but apparently not the other.
Moore at least had something of a body of work, but Collins? That's pure hope. He showed little to nothing, sorry. I'm not terribly high on Moore myself, but to each their own.
 

kerouac9

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Not at all. My prediction that Moore and Collins will both be good this year is based on what I saw of them last year. How they were used is not their fault. This org as a history of under using and misusing rookies.

I wanted to draft Marco Wilson, but I didn't see enough from him last year to be confident in what we will get this year. But I saw flashes from both Moore and Collins that gives me confidence in both.

And it doesn't really address why it's ok to repeat one, but apparently not the other.
Rondale Moore - 526 snaps.
Zaven Collins - 220 snaps.
"I've seen enough to be confident these guys are gonna be stars."

Marco Wilson - 748 defensive snaps.
"Just haven't seen enough of this guy."

:rolleyes:
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Not at all. My prediction that Moore and Collins will both be good this year is based on what I saw of them last year. How they were used is not their fault. This org as a history of under using and misusing rookies.

I wanted to draft Marco Wilson, but I didn't see enough from him last year to be confident in what we will get this year. But I saw flashes from both Moore and Collins that gives me confidence in both.

And it doesn't really address why it's ok to repeat one, but apparently not the other.
You think you saw more from collins - a dude by his own confession practiced awfully and couldn’t grasp the mental side of the game - who couldn’t see the field than Wilson? Okay. Says a lot . . .
 

Krangodnzr

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Huh, go figure. Bad practices and mental errors. So exactly what I said all season as to why he was sitting behind hicks and why he wasn’t a good player last season. Here’s hoping he’s improved the mental side of the game this year!
That's what's crazy about football.

Laymen can watch the game and a player can look good, but the team will see the 4-5 times he filled the wrong gap or played the wrong leverage. Even if that player didn't give up a big play, he will multiple times because of those mental mistakes.

You don't ding an ILB when he gets beat by a slot receiver on a quick slant, but you do ding him when he filled the wrong gap and the RB gets a 15 yard gain.
 

kerouac9

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That's what's crazy about football.

Laymen can watch the game and a player can look good, but the team will see the 4-5 times he filled the wrong gap or played the wrong leverage. Even if that player didn't give up a big play, he will multiple times because of those mental mistakes.

You don't ding an ILB when he gets beat by a slot receiver on a quick slant, but you do ding him when he filled the wrong gap and the RB gets a 15 yard gain.
It's not even getting beaten. It's when he drops too shallow on a pass zone where the QB went to the other side of the field, or when he didn't call out an adjustment on a play where the OLB blew up the run fit anyway.

That's the real problem with PFF grades — they can see the plays that the guy did or didn't make, but they can't see what they were supposed to do but didn't.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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That's what's crazy about football.

Laymen can watch the game and a player can look good, but the team will see the 4-5 times he filled the wrong gap or played the wrong leverage. Even if that player didn't give up a big play, he will multiple times because of those mental mistakes.

You don't ding an ILB when he gets beat by a slot receiver on a quick slant, but you do ding him when he filled the wrong gap and the RB gets a 15 yard gain.
Yup. It’s why I laugh when I see someone say they “saw big things” in collins last year. We have no idea what his assignment was in each play. For all we knew he could’ve blown his assignment every play. It would confirm why he got so little playing, and indeed less playing time, as the season progressed.
 

Stout

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Yup. It’s why I laugh when I see someone say they “saw big things” in collins last year. We have no idea what his assignment was in each play. For all we knew he could’ve blown his assignment every play. It would confirm why he got so little playing, and indeed less playing time, as the season progressed.
Realistically, nobody saw big things in Collins last year, because there weren't big things to see--at least not good big things. There wasn't much of anything to see. Some here predicted Collins to be a great pick, wanted him to prove their opinion right, and are somehow misremembering history to reinforce that opinion.

Between his lack of quality play--or any kind of play--last season, and his pre-season comments he has personally spoken to limit expectations, I have no reason to be encouraged that he'll be anything but a bust. I'd like to be pleasantly surprised, but I'm not holding my breath.
 

Proximo

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Imagine investing premium capital for Inside Linebackers only for both of them to be busts.
Simmons is not a bust.

Has he underperformed so far yes, but he is hardly a bust.
 

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