OT: Bengals go nuts. Extend Andy Dalton.
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RugbyMuffin
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The red blok ?
kerouac9
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It'll be interesting to see how the numbers on that contract play out for Dalton and the Bengals.
Dalton is one of these guys who are probably never going to be in the top 12 NFL passers. He's like--he's exactly like--Matt Schaub. He's younger that Schaub was when he became a starter, but he's going to be a guy who you can't ever build an offense around. A team is really stuck with this kind of player, because you basically have to draft guys like Logan Thomas and hope that they can come up and take a job--or keep bringing in guys like Tony Romo (an undrafted free agent with high upside) and develop them for a couple of years.
This move keeps the Bengals competitive, although it's hard not to think that they're stuck with the third- (and maybe soon fourth-) best QB in the division for the medium-term at least.
Dalton is one of these guys who are probably never going to be in the top 12 NFL passers. He's like--he's exactly like--Matt Schaub. He's younger that Schaub was when he became a starter, but he's going to be a guy who you can't ever build an offense around. A team is really stuck with this kind of player, because you basically have to draft guys like Logan Thomas and hope that they can come up and take a job--or keep bringing in guys like Tony Romo (an undrafted free agent with high upside) and develop them for a couple of years.
This move keeps the Bengals competitive, although it's hard not to think that they're stuck with the third- (and maybe soon fourth-) best QB in the division for the medium-term at least.
GuernseyCard
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I imagine this will prove to be another year-to-year "Kap" deal.
TJ
Frank Kaminsky is my Hero.
The market has now been set for mediocre-to-serviceable QBs with this contract. This is getting ridiculous. This is a contract in which the Bengals are betting on Dalton getting better and being scared of letting him go and potentially regressing at the position. I guess you could do much worse than Dalton, but at the same time, could do much better.
Next up is Alex Smith, who I wouldn't sign for a pack of gum. He'll get $16-$19mi/year. And that's just unfortunate.
Next up is Alex Smith, who I wouldn't sign for a pack of gum. He'll get $16-$19mi/year. And that's just unfortunate.
OP
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kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
LOL. And yet you were all in on Kevin Kolb and stood by that terrible deal until the bitter end. D'okay.
Alex Smith is worth $16M per year. $19M per year is starting to push the ultimate upside of his performance value, but this is what the cost of a veteran starting quarterback is today.
Interesting thing will happen if Palmer proves that he needs to stay around into 2015. His deal voids out after the Super Bowl. Would you pay $15M+ for three more years of Carson Palmer?
Again, the cost of a legitimate starting veteran quarterback today starts at about $12M per season. Has been for a while now.
If he plays damn good this year, yea, I wouldn't hate it if they paid him $15 - $18 million a year, but hopefully not have a 5 year deal stamped on it. Maybe 2 or 3. What it sounds like, Thomas has a long ways to go to get to where we need him to be, so if we can have Palmer on for a few more years(again, if he is playing well) then I am all for it.
OP
OP
Come on, Logan Thomas. Save us, you are our only hope!
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
I guess the question is can Palmer lead you to the Super Bowl? Palmer isn't going to get any better; he's never going to be an upper-echelon QB. So the longer that you're committing resources to him, the more you're pushing off a decision that would allow your franchise to take a quantum leap.
I haven't delved deeply into the 2015 Cards salary cap situation, and much will largely depend on how deeply Fitz and Dockett will be willing to cut their salaries. It's possible that if Palmer throws for 4100 yards, 21 TDs and 14 INTs (or in that ballpark), we couldn't afford to pay him that kind of money, anyway.
I'd argue if Flacco can win a SB with an elite defense, Palmer can too.
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
Fair enough. Of course, Flacco's career INT % is half of what Palmer's is.
I am not thinking he will get better overall. I just think he will be better then last year, hence getting better. If he can get the numbers you posted above, I think it will be hard to release him and not give him a decent contract. I really think this all depends on how Thomas develops over this year(if he isn't cut before the season starts). If Palmer has a great year, but Thomas improves dramatically, then there is a chance Palmer won't be needed, but I doubt that Thomas will improve enough to hand him the reigns to the team. I look forward on seeing how this year plays out. It will be interesting!
TJ
Frank Kaminsky is my Hero.
Don't go full moron again, K9. I was pro Kolb, anti-compensation. Get your facts straight before making silly statements. And no, unlike you, I don't care if I whiff on a prediction. It doesn't personally bother me like it does you.
As for Smith, LOL @ you thinking he's worth $16mil. I wouldn't pay him $7mil. He's not young and is limited in his skill set. If there's a small possibility that Dalton is replaceable, then Smith is surely expendable.
As for Smith, LOL @ you thinking he's worth $16mil. I wouldn't pay him $7mil. He's not young and is limited in his skill set. If there's a small possibility that Dalton is replaceable, then Smith is surely expendable.
Cbus cardsfan
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If Palmer plays this year like he did the 2nd half of last year, I'd absolutely have no problem paying him $15 mill/year for 2 more years.
I find it amusing that people don't think he's a talented QB. He's never played a full season where he's completed less than 60% of his passes and less than 18 TD's (1st year as starter). His bugaboo has been the INT and he throws a lot of them(12 is his career low). But, when it comes to pure throwing the football, he can compete with the best.
Warner had sack and fumbling issues that Whiz helped him keep to a minimum. Hopefully Arians can have the same effect on Palmer with the INT's. I think Palmer will throw for about 4500+ yards and 25+ TD's. But I also think he'll throw about 15-20 ints. I can live with that if he's putting up the other numbers.
I find it amusing that people don't think he's a talented QB. He's never played a full season where he's completed less than 60% of his passes and less than 18 TD's (1st year as starter). His bugaboo has been the INT and he throws a lot of them(12 is his career low). But, when it comes to pure throwing the football, he can compete with the best.
Warner had sack and fumbling issues that Whiz helped him keep to a minimum. Hopefully Arians can have the same effect on Palmer with the INT's. I think Palmer will throw for about 4500+ yards and 25+ TD's. But I also think he'll throw about 15-20 ints. I can live with that if he's putting up the other numbers.
TJ, no need for name calling. You can get your point across without tossing in the moron bit.
I agree, if he has those decent numbers and high INT numbers, I will still be happy with Palmer, unless a few of those INTs amount to losing a game.
kerouac9
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No NFL coach can live with that last number, and that's the kind of number that keeps good defensive teams out of the playoffs.
Buckybird
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Cbus cardsfan
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Ideally, I'd like to see Palmer in the 10-12 int range. I just don't expect it, especially with Arians vertically oriented passing game. If CP can keep it 15 or below, the Cards should be fine. If CP throws in the 20 range again, it will likely cost the Cards a game, or two.
Buckybird
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The Bungles really had little choice but to pay up! He's been a playoff QB 3 years in a row now...and he's a slightly better than average QB. It's just the going rate because quality NFL QBs don't grow on trees...Palmer got it, Suckchez got it, Romo got it, kaepernick got it, Stafford got it & now Dalton got it. Scam, Ryan & Smith are about to get paid in the same vicinity.
In a few years probably 20+ QBs are gonna be making close to $20/mil a year IMO. Hell, the Cards are probably gonna ante up $15 mil + for Palmer considering the trash they have waiting in the wings
In a few years probably 20+ QBs are gonna be making close to $20/mil a year IMO. Hell, the Cards are probably gonna ante up $15 mil + for Palmer considering the trash they have waiting in the wings
If Palmer doesn't try to force the ball to Fitz like he did countless times, I think the INT numbers will be down. I just think Fitz was getting into his head asking for the ball, and Palmer was trying to make him happy.
TJ
Frank Kaminsky is my Hero.
Palmer's going to look for some security in his next contract. I think he's going to command a 3-year deal worth about $14-$15 mil/year with about $28-$30 guaranteed.
Of course, if he gets this sort of deal, it'd mean he limited his picks and the offense is scoring more points, which is a good thing.
Of course, if he gets this sort of deal, it'd mean he limited his picks and the offense is scoring more points, which is a good thing.
splitsecond
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This. If he plays like he played the second half of last year, he is a much better QB than Smith and Dalton combined.
That being said, I do agree with K9 that Smith is probably worth 16m in the current market though 10-12m a year is probably more along what it SHOULD be all things being equal. But the Bungles have screwed that up for everyone. Of course, if Dalton bombs then I think that teams will be able to call the deal an aberration and an overpay.
Carolinacacti
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I believe Drew Stanton is under contract for two more years. I guess its a big no on him starting in 2015? I would only sign Palmer if it was like Warners last deal for one year.
Buckybird
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IMO if BA is even looking at Stanton or Thomas as a starting QB for this team for anything more than a couple of games here & there, we as fans are in for some bad Cardinal football. It might even get him fired.
