Only one starter below Kyler Murray in new QB rankings

Discussion in 'Arizona Cardinals' started by Brian in Mesa, Jun 10, 2019.

  1. CardsSunsDbacks

    CardsSunsDbacks ASFN Contributor Contributor

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    For sure. For me the only real question marks for Murray are how he deals with the speed of the game and the step up in competition and whether or not he stays healthy. Those things are ultimately what will make him successful or not at this level, but those are the questions you have to ask of any rookie QB to at least some extent. I can understand why people have doubt because of his measurables, but there are similar sized players that have been successful and they have been because they meet the mental requirements to do it. If Murray ends up failing I highly doubt it has much of anything to do with his size.
     
  2. PACardsFan

    PACardsFan Registered User

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    There’s always a bust risk, bit far fetched to refer to K1’s as enormous. By all accounts he is excellent in the following areas:
    Accuracy
    Arm strength
    Intelligence
    Speed
    Agility
    Hit avoidance
    Throwing from angles
    Throwing on the run
    Reading defenses
    Escapability
    Tight spiral
    Catchable ball

    When you factor in his ability to throw from all angles & throw on the run, his 5’10” height means nothing. All it means is that he’ll have a chip on his shoulder that is bigger than him.
     
  3. Solar7

    Solar7 Also Skeptical

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    See, this is the kind of stuff that gets me going. "His 5'10 height means 'nothing.'"

    No man, it does, and history has proven that short QBs don't play very well. Yes, he might be the exception to the rule, but until we see him in real action, it very much does "matter."
     
  4. Jetstream Green

    Jetstream Green Registered User

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    History also shows that really tall QBs have not fair well either, even more so than short QBs because the NFL has not given many short QBs a chance to even have a fair assessment. Yes, I know this is a contact sport and being small is why they have not been given a chance (or that fable that they cannot see over the OL when even a 6'4 QB cannot see over the OL and has to throw through windows) but this is not about being hurt but playing well and this is also about a current NFL which is a lot different than the past. The question should not be about height, but since Murray can run, will he abandon his pocket tendencies in the Pros as a easy way out when the complexity is upped a notch because the percentages of mobile QBs who run have not won many championships because any opposing defense which gets to the big dance does not make it possible
     
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  5. CardsSunsDbacks

    CardsSunsDbacks ASFN Contributor Contributor

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    History has shown that most QB's fail regardless of height. The only thing history has truly shown in regard to short QBs is that they don't get nearly as many opportunities to be NFL starters (or even college starters) as taller QBs do. Shorter QBs don't bust at any higher of a rate than taller QBs. What matters the most when determining whether a QB has success or not is if they can read the defense, get the ball out on time, have the arm talent to get the ball into tight windows and stay healthy. Almost every QB bust in NFL history failed because they couldn't do one or more of those things and you never can know for sure if a QB will succeed at all of those things until you see it on the field in real games.
     
  6. Cardsfan77

    Cardsfan77 Free Agent

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    I agree in a general sense that height counts for something, but what about “short” and accurate (in a major college conference) QBs, what does history tell us there? I myself don’t know, so honest question. I don’t think it’s fair to lump Kyler in with all other “short” QBs throughout history, he’s way too unique of an athlete...
     
  7. Solar7

    Solar7 Also Skeptical

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    Sure, but if you break it into segments of success, it's a bell curve. Shorter guys struggle to show NFL success, really tall guys struggle to show NFL success. There's readily available information on this.

    The huge issue I have with your argument about how short guys "don't get a chance" in the NFL is that I've provided lists of short guys who have failed, but no one seems to have a list of college players who weren't given enough of a chance in the NFL, or high school guys who weren't given a shot.

    With the desperation for even adequate QB play, I don't think this is an issue of poor short guys just not being given a chance... if you have the arm strength, mind, etc., you're going to get a chance. And if you're amazing, you're going to beat out the guys around you.

    I mean, feel free to share evidence of short guys that aren't getting enough of a chance, but this seems like it's just something that some of you feel is happening, not anything concrete with examples of where some kid was clearly amazing but just wasn't picked/offered a scholarship.
     
  8. kerouac9

    kerouac9 #Stiff4Kliff

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    Murray was great for one year. Russell Wilson had 50 college starts. Just like comparisons to Mahomes are inappropriate, the comparisons to Wilson are. Wilson had NOTHING to prove to the NFL except the height thing.

    The Cards are taking a chance on greatness, but the thing that's annoying to me is that the Murray stans are acting as if there is no risk. If there were no risk, Murray wouldn't have been viewed as a fringe Day 2 prospect until the Combine.
     
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  9. Chris_Sanders

    Chris_Sanders Super Moderator Contributor

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    What makes the bust chance high is not the size of the player but the limited sample size on his college stats. The smaller the sample size, the larger the chance that the data is wrong.
     
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  10. Chris_Sanders

    Chris_Sanders Super Moderator Contributor

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    I think pre draft I had it like this:

    30% top 12
    25% 12-24
    5% 25-32
    10% Long Term Journeyman
    30% Out of the league in 4 years

    His unique skills make it more likely he will spectacular either as a hit or a miss. I just don't see Mike Glennon here
     
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  11. kerouac9

    kerouac9 #Stiff4Kliff

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    I think the difference is that he's a #1 overall pick. Sam Bradford was still getting calls last offseason. Blaine Gabbert still has a job. Michael Vick played for 7 seasons after his dogfighting conviction. Top picks can play (almost) as long as they want to because someone will think they can be resurrected somehow.

    OT: OMG -- Did anyone know that E.J. Manuel weighted 237 pounds with the Raiders? That's WILD.
     
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  12. Chris_Sanders

    Chris_Sanders Super Moderator Contributor

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    And I had Rosen like

    5% top 12
    30% 12-24
    35% 25-32
    25% Long term Journeyman
    5% Out of the League in 4 years
     
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  13. Chris_Sanders

    Chris_Sanders Super Moderator Contributor

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    Yeah the out of the league is really only driven by the fair concerns that if he isn't a big hit as a QB he can always go back to baseball.

    So like if he runs through his 4 year deal and we don't pick up his option, he is just going to go play baseball
     
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  14. kerouac9

    kerouac9 #Stiff4Kliff

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    Yeah. That's a good point.
     
  15. Jetstream Green

    Jetstream Green Registered User

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    I would not compare Murray to Wilson till he shows it as a pro. As far as college QBs coming out, sure the comparison can work with Wilson and Mahomes. Honestly, if Murray played another year at Oklahoma it would have been more of the same with gaudy numbers playing the college game... him playing professional ball is the only way we are going to find out
     

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