****Official Marcin Gortat Appreciation thread****

sunsfan88

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Marcin Gortat has done a lot for this franchise since being traded here and this article below shows that Gortat is a top center in the NBA regardless of Steve Nash. Many people think Gortat's just Nash little b***h, but it simply isn't true.

A very well thought out article about Gortat, I thought I will share...enjoy!

The Most Marcin Gortat Piece Ever Written

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Marcin Gortat’s ascendance into the upper echelon of NBA big men came via a slow burn. As the backup to the best big man in all of basketball, Dwight Howard, Gortat didn’t see much playing time during his stint with the Orlando Magic, but his per-36 minute numbers were extremely impressive in the early part of his career (he averaged a double-double per-36). They belied a player who should be seeing much more playing time, but in Orlando, that was just never going to be in the cards.

It’s wasn’t as if the Magic didn’t know exactly what they had on their hands in Gortat – it’s not often that you see a team match a full mid-level exception offer sheet for their back-up center, as the Magic did when Gortat signed with the Dallas Mavericks in 2009 – but if Dwight Howard is your starting center, you’re just not going to play his backup very often. After Orlando matched the offer sheet on Gortat, he proceeded to post the worst per-36 numbers, PER, rebound rate, turnover percentage and true shooting percentage of his career in the 2009-10 season. He indicated prior to the season that he was upset that the Magic might match Dallas’ offer even though they didn’t intend to give him heavy minutes.

In the 2010-11 season, he got off to an even slower start. His per-36 minutes numbers were down again, as was his PER, true shooting, rebounding and ability to take care of the basketball. He was frustrated with his role, and it was truly starting to affect his play on the court. Then, as the story goes, everything changed. Gortat was shipped to Phoenix in a trade that also included Vince Carter and Hedo Turkoglu, among others, and he delivered on the promise he showed so often early in his career.

After having an excellent stretch run last season with an increase in playing time, he has gotten additional upticks in his scoring output (17.7 per-36) and shooting percentages (60.9 TS%). He’s also posting a career high PER (22.5, well above his 17.2 career average) and has played some at-times-dominant defense so far this season. Now here’s the part where you probably say, “Well, of course his numbers are better. He’s playing with STEVE NASH!!” But take a look at these graphics.

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Graphics via NBA.com Stats Cube

Gortat is helping Nash just as much as Nash is helping him. Gortat takes 3.3 less shots and scores 5.0 fewer points per-36 without Nash on the court. Nash’s assists per-36 minutes drop by 3.5 when the Polish big man leaves the floor, and his scoring drops by 3.3 points per-36 as well. This is likely at least in part due to the excellent chemistry the two have developed in the pick-and-roll, the centerpiece of Suns head coach Alvin Gentry’s offense. When these two run pick-and-roll actions together, they’re nothing short of dominant.

Gortat is currently sitting 5th in the NBA in points per possession (PPP) as a P&R roll man according to mySynergySports, and while much of this has to do with Nash’s wizardry getting him the ball in the right place to score, the big man is also acquitting himself nicely by correctly using the space that Nash creates after using the screen. Nash is a dynamite pick-and-roll player, perhaps the best in the league at delivering the ball to the big man on the roll or the pop. He’s also a huge threat to score because of his excellent jump shot and ability to finish over and around people at the rim from seemingly impossible angles. As a P&R ball-handler, he is 7th in the league in PPP through Saturday’s games. That scoring ability creates copious amounts of space for Gortat to roll, slip or pop out off picks, and vice versa for Nash with Gortat’s ability to score off the roll. The two have gotten extraordinarily good at reading where this space will be in their short time together.


Of course, Gortat is not solely a pick-and-roll threat. He’s been a beast in the post this year as well. He’s at 34th in the league in PPP in on post-ups so far this season, a number that places him in the top 7.5% of all players. Post-ups are far and away his second most used play, and together with pick-and-rolls they account for 60.4% of his possessions. Combined on these two plays, he is averaging 1.11 PPP, which would easily place him in the top 25 in the NBA.

Gortat is also off to an auspicious start on the defensive end of the court. His individual defensive numbers are almost otherworldly so far this season, though they do come with some caveats.

Good luck scoring on him in the post, as he’s holding players to 0.7 PPP and 40.7% shooting there. Gortat is far too strong to get muscled by any opposing center not named Dwight Howard, and when they wind up trying to shoot over or around him, he has extremely long arms with which to challenge their shots. He’s similarly effective on isolations, allowing just 0.59 PPP and 30.8% shooting. Again, his incredible strength (I can’t overstate how strong this guy really is) and long arms are effective guarding against both bull-through moves and guys who try to shoot the ball over or around him. Those two types of plays account for 56.8% of the possessions used against him on defense this season, and his ability to guard them is a large part of his being 32nd in the NBA with 0.67 PPP against.

However, as I stated earlier, he’s not infallible on that end. Gortat can be taken advantage of if you can get him on the move, which is why he’s been at his worst defensively when defending pick-and-rolls. Any time you can get him matched up on a guard off a switch, that’s obviously a mismatch. He also tends to drift away from his man to try to cut off driving lanes, causing him to give up a bunch of wide-open jumpers. A lot of players on the Suns are bad individual defenders, and Gortat often over-rotates away from his man to compensate for that. He’s so used to doing it that he even over compensates for the Suns’ decent-to-good defenders like Grant Hill.

Even if he did regress to his normal percentage on those shots, he’d narrowly miss career highs in FG% and TS%, and he’d likely still be on track for a career-high in points per game and per-36 minutes. Coupled with his improved and for the most part extremely impressive defense, you’re talking about a guy who needs to be considered a top ten center right now, with an outside case to jump into the top five.

http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2012/01/the-most-marcin-gortat-marcin-gortat-piece-ever-written/


If you click on the link it shows you more videos etc about Gortat, his defense, his pick & roll game and his post game.

Its nice to have a legit center for the FIRST time in franchise history.

Go Gortat! :cheers:
 

BC867

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Its nice to have a legit center for the FIRST time in franchise history.
Neal Walk joined the Suns in their second season -- '69-70 -- and averaged 8.2 points and 5.5 rebounds for the season.

For the next four seasons, however, he averaged 12.9-8.2, 15.7-8.2, 20.2-12.4 and 16.8-12.2.

In all five seasons, he played either 81 or 82 games. Then he was traded to the New Orleans Jazz and never played in more than 67 games again.

Mark West's best scoring average was 11.8 PPG and his best RPG was 8.9. He was our other legitimate Center with longevity on the Suns, but with mediocre stats and constantly in foul trouble.

So it has been thirty-nine years since we have had a 20-10 Center. For our younger fans, Gortat is the first. For the rest of us, that is why we are so frustrated with Suns management.

And now that we have a legitimate Center, with the exception of our aging Point Guard (when he is healthy), there is no one else on the team to match Gortat's level of play.
 
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Magnus

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It's a shame that for the first time that the organisation has a legit center, that he is the only legit player on the team.
 

Mainstreet

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It's a shame that for the first time that the organisation has a legit center, that he is the only legit player on the team.

Nash is still quite a good player. The problem is the Suns don't have star talent around them.
 
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sunsfan88

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But Nash is 38. Very rarely have teams done well when their best player is that old.
 

jagu

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Trade him (possessed by slinslin).

I'd trade my kidney for $$$ before Gortat.
 
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Covert Rain

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Ha...I should have waited. Posted all these Gortat stats basically saying the same thing on another thread. I should have waited a few days for this guy to post his stuff. Would have saved me some number crunching and stat research. :D
 

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this guy is poised and ready to play. gotta love him
 

jagu

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Nash isn't playing tonight and Gortat is still dropping buckets.
 

Covert Rain

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Ofcourse he is. Where you at slinslin?!?!?! Gortat just called you a Gimmick.
 

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12th match in a row with 10 or more rebounds means that Gortat is the first player in the last 10 years with such an impressive series for Suns. The last one was Shawn Marion in January/February of 2001, who has got 13th games in a row with 10 + rbs.

info - one polish site;-)
 

slinslin

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You know that the sample size of all the stats this article uses is 14 freaking games?

You know that since then Gortats shooting % has fallen off by around 5% and his per has also dropped?

Current Adjusted PER list for centers that play more than 10mpg.
http://www.hoopdata.com/advancedstats.aspx?team=%&type=pg&posi=C&yr=2012&gp=0&mins=10

Dwight Howard 24.92
Greg Monroe 23.39
Andrea Bargnani 22.14
Al Jefferson UTH 21.55
Roy Hibbert IND 20.74
Spencer Hawes 20.57
Samuel Dalembert 20.40
Marc Gasol MEM 20.28
Andrew Bynum 20.23
Marcin Gortat 20.08
Chris Andersen 19.43
Tyson Chandler 19.41
Al Horford ATL 19.21
Tim Duncan SAS 18.89
JaVale McGee 18.59
Nene Hilario DEN 18.40
Tiago Splitter 18.29

Plus the article totally misleads the reader

Of course, Gortat is not solely a pick-and-roll threat. He’s been a beast in the post this year as well. He’s at 34th in the league in PPP in on post-ups so far this season, a number that places him in the top 7.5% of all players. Post-ups are far and away his second most used play, and together with pick-and-rolls they account for 60.4% of his possessions. Combined on these two plays, he is averaging 1.11 PPP, which would easily place him in the top 25 in the NBA.

Yeah he is in the top 7.5% in post ups among all players if you count all point guards and wing players that is a joke to make that statement. If you compare him to other centers on that level he posts up on far fewer occasions. Around 1/3 of the amount of postups comparable centers play and instead 5 times as many pick and rolls with Steve Nash.

Saying he is in the top 7.5% in that regard among all players is like telling us he is a starting big man in the NBA. Lets assume 40% of all NBA players are Power Forwards and Centers. Lets assume 20% of them are full time starters. Lets assume 70% of the left over played all games this season, lets assume 80% of the rest plays at least 20 minutes per game. Not much of a statement to say that Gortat ranks in the top 7.5% of all NBA players in post ups. It is expected and the interesting stat is how few postups he plays compared to other centers.
 
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Covert Rain

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You know that the sample size of all the stats this article uses is 14 freaking games?

You know that since then Gortats shooting % has fallen off by around 5% and his per has also dropped?

Current Adjusted PER list for centers that play more than 10mpg.
http://www.hoopdata.com/advancedstats.aspx?team=%&type=pg&posi=C&yr=2012&gp=0&mins=10

Dwight Howard 24.92
Greg Monroe 23.39
Andrea Bargnani 22.14
Al Jefferson UTH 21.55
Roy Hibbert IND 20.74
Spencer Hawes 20.57
Samuel Dalembert 20.40
Marc Gasol MEM 20.28
Andrew Bynum 20.23
Marcin Gortat 20.08
Chris Andersen 19.43
Tyson Chandler 19.41
Al Horford ATL 19.21
Tim Duncan SAS 18.89
JaVale McGee 18.59
Nene Hilario DEN 18.40
Tiago Splitter 18.29

Plus the article totally misleads the reader



Yeah he is in the top 7.5% in post ups among all players if you count all point guards and wing players that is a joke to make that statement. If you compare him to other centers on that level he posts up on far fewer occasions. Around 1/3 of the amount of postups comparable centers play and instead 5 times as many pick and rolls with Steve Nash.

Saying he is in the top 7.5% in that regard among all players is like telling us he is a starting big man in the NBA. Lets assume 40% of all NBA players are Power Forwards and Centers. Lets assume 20% of them are full time starters. Lets assume 70% of the left over played all games this season, lets assume 80% of the rest plays at least 20 minutes per game. Not much of a statement to say that Gortat ranks in the top 7.5% of all NBA players in post ups. It is expected and the interesting stat is how few postups he plays compared to other centers.

Let's assume for one minute you are not biased. Look at all the other stats already posted through all the threads.

You have no leg to stand on unless your really going to hang your hat on the fact he has not scored 30. Even then I wouldn't recommend picking up anything over a few pounds.
 
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BC867

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... unless your really going to hang your hat on the fact he has not scored 30 ...
Yup. The lifelong philosophy of the Phoenix Suns. Scoring is the only thing you look at. Not rebounding. Not defense. Not blocks. Not steals. Not endurance. Y'know, the things that win championships?
 

jagu

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Gortat does everything I wish Amare would have done on defense and rebounding.
 

slinslin

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Of course, Gortat is not solely a pick-and-roll threat. He’s been a beast in the post this year as well. He’s at 34th in the league in PPP in on post-ups so far this season, a number that places him in the top 7.5% of all players. Post-ups are far and away his second most used play, and together with pick-and-rolls they account for 60.4% of his possessions. Combined on these two plays, he is averaging 1.11 PPP, which would easily place him in the top 25 in the NBA.

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This is another example of this article..

Gortat on PPP right now scores 0.72 points per post up. He posted up just 64 times all season and shoots 42% in post up situations. He scored on 21 post ups on the whole season.
(Al Jefferson for example posted up 188 times)

Gortat is so effective because he was 107 times the man that rolled to the basket on a PNR with Nash and scores on 65% in that situation. Al jefferson in comparison 27 times.

On post-ups he ranks far below Markieff Morris btw.

Combining post-ups with pick and roll plays and making one out of is totally biased.
 
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Covert Rain

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Gortat is so effective because he was 107 times the man that rolled to the basket on a PNR with Nash and scores on 65% in that situation. Al jefferson in comparison 27 times.

On post-ups he ranks far below Markieff Morris btw.

Combining post-ups with pick and roll plays and making one out of is totally biased.

Nash averages 9.9 assists per game on a team that almost averages 21 per game. That means half the Suns assists come from other players other than Nash. Your assumption are faulty because on a team that averages 21 assists per game a little more than half of those come from other members of this team. Unless you log every assist from every player I doubt the majority come from the pick and roll.

The combined assisted avg of our SF, PF and Centers on this team come out to to those players being assisted almost 70% of the time. No one person could be responsible for that every single game and again to say the majority of those come on pick and rolls versus good old fashion passing is ridiculous. You keep saying Nash is the only reason Gortat scores. Unless somehow all of Nash's 9.9 assist just go to Gortat your not using much logic and you are not watching the games for sure. Nash passes to other guys who score all the time.

Gortat is largely responsible for his own success, making his own jump shots (which accounts for almost 6 of every 10 shots he takes). It doesn't matter who passed to him, he still has to make the shots. Nash doesn't help him in any other aspects of his game which has made the Suns legit at most Center categories.

It's damn amazing for a guy who is not the #1 option for the Suns. Gortat is playing his role on this team as dictated by Gentry. They are not asking Gortat to play the Barkley roll on this team with the ball in his hands in the post the majority of possessions down the court and post up every play. That is not his roll. He showed at times in Orlando what he was capable of without the pick and roll. He showed the other night without Nash that he can still score and rebound without Nash on the floor. Gortat scores with other guys passing to him as well.

If there were 99 straight days of blue skies, you would wait until a cloud covered thunderstorm hit to make the argument the sky wasn't blue.

P.S. He might not have a 30 game point under his belt but the guy has scored 20+ points 6 times and 24 twice. He is on a faster pace in terms of 20 point games, 10+ rebounding games versus last year. Pretty damn good for a guy who is not playing the go to scorer role on this team.
 
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sunsfan88

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I really hope he makes the All Star team this year. Bynum and Gasol will probably get in because of popularity but Gortat has outplayed both in head to head matchups.
 

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