Official Kyler Murray career thread.... (post Cardinals/Vikes)

GimmedaBall

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That would be the Doug Flutie who played very well for the Bills, right?
Yes. Flutie spent several years out of college in the NFL and never really got a chance to be a starter. He moved to the Canadian football league and had major success there for several years. He then came back into the NFL and had two good years for Buffalo and went back to back-up status.

An 11th round draft pick back in the day. Listed at 5'10" . . . with the tape used to measure KM.


PS Bookmark that Profootball Reference Page. Lots of goodies to explore and you can find the Bio of any player.
 
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Yes. Flutie spent several years out of college in the NFL and never really got a chance to be a starter. He moved to the Canadian football league and had major success there for several years. He then came back into the NFL and had two good years for Buffalo and went back to back-up status.

An 11th round draft pick back in the day. Listed at 5'10" . . . with the tape used to measure KM.


PS Bookmark that Profootball Reference Page. Lots of goodies to explore and you can find the Bio of any player.
We literally have short QBs in the modern era that have not only won Supers but are hofers as well in Brees and Wilson yet you guys harken back 30yrs do Doug Flutie.

LOL

Boomer Takes
 

GimmedaBall

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So as Kyler continues to underwhelm and underperform, we can then safely conclude his failures were never about his height - or lack thereof?
A major point raised in defense of KM is that he had the misfortune of being drafted by the Cards. 'If only he was with a good orgainzation, he would be a successful QB.'

Well, he is now with a Viking team with great WR talent, RB, and an alleged guru of a HC/OC. Still too early to decide---give him a few games---but KM in his first full game as a Vike sure looked like the KM we saw for several years with the Cards. The only difference was the color of the uniform.
 
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GimmedaBall

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We literally have short QBs in the modern era that have not only won Supers but are hofers as well in Brees and Wilson yet you guys harken back 30yrs do Doug Flutie.

LOL

Boomer Takes
Unfortunately for you, your favorite short QB is not going to be on the HOF roster and most likely will never get near a SB experience, at least not as a starter. Maybe as a gamer.

Don't mess with a Boomer, we know stuff.
 

Zalixar

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We literally have short QBs in the modern era that have not only won Supers but are hofers as well in Brees and Wilson yet you guys harken back 30yrs do Doug Flutie.

LOL

Boomer Takes

They had to overcome their height with other elevated skills, because being short is a major hindrance. Kyler isn't in the same league as Drew Brees because "both short." Same can be said with Wilson who won with an elite defense, but also not the same as Brees.

Either he didn't dedicate enough time to overcoming it or he just won't ever have it we don't know. It's not like he completely failed, the NFL is HARD. Dude can't read a defense to save his life.
 
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Crimson Warrior

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I'm not praying for him to fail. I know he will fail.

Because I have eyes and have seen him play football.

Seeing Watson pull out of his nose dive might give a spark of hope to the K1 supporters.

Not that it matters much, but I think Murray is switching over to underdog status now. You’ll find the average fan a little more agreeable to rooting for him as a result.
 

Cheesebeef

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Not that it matters much, but I think Murray is switching over to underdog status now. You’ll find the average fan a little more agreeable to rooting for him as a result.

No he’s not and no you won’t. People outside of Minnesota ain’t rooting for Kyler Murray. He’s mostly either a Call Of Duty or Short Guy Big Head joke to the average fan at this point.
 
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CardNots

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approaching 100 pages, KM would be flattered by the attention?

Nah he wouldn’t care which brings a thought of why should we or do we just like to argue degree of failure?

100 pages without my contribution, not going to happen
 

GimmedaBall

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KM is not short when compared to the adult male population of the US—the average height is 5'9" with KM listing himself at 5'10".


KM is playing a game with the average height of OL is 6'4" and the average height of DL is 6'3.5". (Aaron Donald was a beast at 6'1" and our own CC is the tallest DL at 6'8". You can appreciate the contrast when KM and CC would cross paths on the Cardinals sidelines.) So, KM is ‘short’ in relationship to the guys he is on the field with. It is a credit to his athletic ability that he has gone as far as he has with 11 D players towering over him with the intentions of smashing him into the turf.


List of some of the shortest NFL players:

 

GimmedaBall

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I can't recall if I posted my article on KM to this forum. I will post it now as my last comment on this thread since 601 has refused to list his reasons to support KM beyond his fan devotion.

KM plays small. His baseball background still haunts his mechanics. In baseball, the outfielder is taught to put the lower part of the body into the throw by crouching down, make the catch, and explode forward with the throw using the muscles in the lower leg. (A QB also uses the legs). KM will take the snap from under center as if he is fielding a ground ball in the outfield. He gets low—of course, he then cannot see over the picket fence of lineman who are 5"-to-8" taller than he is. When KM is crouched under center wonder what the height is of his eyes is while looking over the top of his Center? He had a chance when bowling ball 6'1" Shipley was his center, probably not with C 6'5" Hjalte Froholdt. One big reason KM preferred the shotgun.

Listen to this training video link below on how to throw the baseball from the outfield and then take a look at the way KM throws a football. A lot of his mechanics are true to the outfield throw, not a football throw. He will even ‘pat’ the ball in the same fashion an infielder will as he waits for the 1st baseman to get to the bag. KM wants a stationary target—that is how a defender in baseball operates. Throws go to a base, not a moving player. KM can make the throw to a spot on the field, but it becomes the receiver’s duty to get somewhere along that trajectory and intercept the ball (picture that favorite 10-yard back shoulder throw to DHOP). KM is not hitting the guy in stride; he throws on a line that requires the receiver to run into the arc of the ball. A throw to the back of the endzone is a toss to hit the back pylon and not necessarily a receiver in motion. (Look at that TD toss to MHJ in the first Seattle game.) A lot of NFL QB will do the same but for KM it is his primary method of passing. It is why his intermediate-to-deep throws have gone down each year. Defenses know to intercept/defend that throw to a spot on the field. When he has to hurry a throw, he will leap into the throw off his back foot—like an infielder making a catch and trying to get it to first base ASAP.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

KM needs to dance in order to find a clear line of sight. That gets him out of any defined pocket—much to the dismay of his OL who are trying to establish that protective shell for the QB to step up and throw. The OL—especially the big dudes the Cards have—can’t monitor KM’s location as they are trying to pass protect against guys like Parsons and Donald (retired). They have their back to the QB and their focus is on the combat going on around them. The OL have to ‘feel’ the other lineman and how they are performing in the event they have to slide off their protection and chip a D player. An OL can do everything right as far as his mechanics to stop the D with his primary blocking assignment and his ‘teamwork’ coordination with the other OL---but if KM is not where he is supposed to be, the play gets blown up. Of course, sometimes KM can salvage the situation with a scramble or off-time pass, off-schedule pass. In both situations, all the effort by the OL is pretty much null-and-void.

Just as KM can’t see the receivers, they can’t see him behind the scrum along the line. Receivers want to know where the ball is going to come from—they need a pass launched from a definite spot from behind the line (the pocket) as much as the OL need to protect that pocket. When KM is doing the dipsy-doodle behind the line, he is no longer at the launch point position that a receivers will look to. Imagine the receiver running his route, goes into his break, and turns to find the ball coming to him from the ‘pocket’ launch point behind the line. Problem is, KM has gone dancing to find a lane to see his receivers and the launch point is yards away from where it ‘should’ be. Because they might not see KM, that ball is coming from who-knows-where.

A ‘pro’ receiver has the quick twitch reflexes to make the adjustment—sometimes. When they come out of their break, the ball needs to be within that target area for them to pull the ball in and get the YAC and/or defend themselves from a hit(s). KM’s completion percentage was saved by guys twisting themselves into a pretzel to make the catch—McBride is an example of making up the difference between a well-placed pass and one that is in the general vicinity. Sometimes he gets a bullet throw against his helmet. MHJ has trouble correcting for KM’s ill-timed, ill-placed throws and had fans second guessing his ability as a wide receiver. Those routes that required MHJ sit down in the zone, stop, turn to KM to receive that ball—didn’t go well for MHJ. No receiver wants to be standing still and waiting for a late throw with DB bearing down. That was the kind of plays Fitz was getting—and convinced him it was time to retire. Fitz saw the implications of that KM contract extension and knew is was time to go play golf. Note how JB is developing a chemistry and connection with MHJ that just wasn’t there all the time with KM. The practice reps with MHJ and JB were on display in the Cowpie game during the Cards first drive . . . and especially on the TD that had the DB twisting himself in the turf as MHJ plucked the pass out of the air. Wonder how much time the young WR spent with the vet QB JB after practice to get that timing down? Did KM offer that same commitment after practice? It is a thing of beauty when a QB hits a speeding WR in-stride and the guy literally glides past the Defense. Check out that JB pass to Wilson to start the second half of the Cowpie game that went for 50 yards—the longest pass play of the year.

How to throw a football:

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Note the different mechanical set-up motions a QB goes through and the reset as he goes reads his progression. Compare that to the smooth delivery required as an outfielder makes the throw to a stationary base with no need to adjust. Outfielders are taught to decide where they are going with the ball before the batter hits the ball. Now, that is exactly what the KK offense requires the QB to do—single read and throw. The QB looks at the alignment of the D and decides where to go with the ball before it is snapped. When DC and players appreciated the KK’s early version of his pro-offense, they shut down both KK and KM. When DP got together with KM to decide the content of their playbook—KM opted for those plays that were close to the single read and throw type of plays. That just cut DP’s playbook down to a dull dink-n-dunk. Add in the inability to see over the scrum of big dudes on the line and you lose a lot of the over-the-middle throws.

All of the above was evident BEFORE the SK/MB huge contract extension.

You can’t touch the receivers nose if you can’t see him.

With that, I rest my case on KM. Best of luck to him going forward. Best of luck to any OC who believes they can change him. You can’t coach a player to be 6" taller. You can’t uncoach a lifetime of reactive memory that got you a Heisman, selection as the #1 overall pick, ROTY, two pro-bowls—that’s what a new OC will need to do to salvage KM since he has so far failed and/or refused to evolve his game and do it himself.
 
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Unfortunately for you, your favorite short QB is not going to be on the HOF roster and most likely will never get near a SB experience, at least not as a starter. Maybe as a gamer.

Don't mess with a Boomer, we know stuff.
Sam Darnold was a washed up bum before going to Minny.

Let’s give K1 more than 1 game before we bury the guy.
 

BritCard

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Seeing Watson pull out of his nose dive might give a spark of hope to the K1 supporters.

Not that it matters much, but I think Murray is switching over to underdog status now. You’ll find the average fan a little more agreeable to rooting for him as a result.

Watson was a top 5 QB that Tiger Woods himself. He's still nowhere near back there, he's just had two games of not being absolute dogshit.

But he knows how to be a great QB, that's very different from Kyler who just has basic flaws in his game. There's nothing for him to rediscover.
 

dreamcastrocks

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You are literally a faceless dork continually telling us that what we see isn't real. At least he backs it up with film breakdown.

I mean, literally the first play on that tape he throws a ball out of bounds that was a low percentage catch anyway when he has a guy open at the chains 10 yards in field that is a much easier throw, but probably couldn't see him. .
See you in 3 days.
 

Stout

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We literally have short QBs in the modern era that have not only won Supers but are hofers as well in Brees and Wilson yet you guys harken back 30yrs do Doug Flutie.

LOL

Boomer Takes
Those two QBs--two, not a lot--were everything that Kyler never has been and never will be. Well, Wilson sucked at the end. Flutie is a better comp.

Edit: Except Flutie had heart.
 
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Those two QBs--two, not a lot--were everything that Kyler never has been and never will be. Well, Wilson sucked at the end. Flutie is a better comp.

Edit: Except Flutie had heart.
The point isn’t that K1 will turn into any of those guys because that is an argument that was injected by you.

The argument is can a short QB be successful in the NFL which is 100% yes.
 

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