Off season: Focus on offense

Russ Smith

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Dont know where to put this, but makes some good points @Russ Smith
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Its tough because they probably thought Isabella could be his Hollywood Brown. However, I think the reality is if Murphy was gone and N'Keal Harry was available thats who they were taking.


All the more reason to get my guy from USC Drake London.

But I do want Edge or OL first if possible
 

SoonerLou

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All the more reason to get my guy from USC Drake London.

But I do want Edge or OL first if possible
Not sure he'll be there at 23. The guy we might in range for is Burks. Jameson Williams would be the outside speed threat.

Problem is Williams is coming off the injury and Burks is more Deebo. Kliff's gotta be creative with him. Much more than he was with Rondale.
 

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Not sure he'll be there at 23. The guy we might in range for is Burks. Jameson Williams would be the outside speed threat.

Problem is Williams is coming off the injury and Burks is more Deebo. Kliff's gotta be creative with him. Much more than he was with Rondale.
I’ll actually be shocked if Drake is gone before 23 or even in the first round.
 

Russ Smith

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I’ll actually be shocked if Drake is gone before 23 or even in the first round.

Depends which mock but I've seen him as high as I think 13. A recent CBS mock had him at 22 one pick before us. The biggest knock is some drops but he makes so many great catches it's not like he has bad hands, he just needs to learn to focus on teh ball more which again is likely in part due to him only playing football fulltime one year because he was always playing basketball too.

I don't buy into PFF, they loved Isabella, but they actually have him going 11th in a recent mock. they said he led the nation in contested catches , 19, and in only 28 attempts so the narrative that he has lots of contested catches because he gets no separation is not real, he had 88 catches and only 19 of them were contested.

He's not a burner but he's fast enough and was very good after the catch.
 
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he just has a tendency to drop balls that are absolutely killers. I know every drop is bad but he drops balls in the endzone, or deep downfield, or when you're desperately looking for a big play to get some momentum. I like the guy, I still think we're going to try and keep him because Kyler loves him, but I also wonder when he's going to take that next step. and maybe it's Kyler, maybe he'll go to Tampa Bay or somewhere else and look like a star, I just don't see it.

When D Hop drops a ball I'm still stunned over a month later, can't believe he dropped that one in the redzone against the Rams. With Kirk it's like hopefully that's the only one today.

In many ways he's like Frank Sanders who all things considered was a terrific WR for us for years, but once a game he'd drop one right in his hands and drive you nuts.

And the drops are absolutely on Kirk, remember the first start of the Chosen one in Arizona, Rosen having a very good start perfect strike downfield to Kirk for a huge gain, dropped it.

I mean, its happened like 4-5 times his whole time here? Averaging between 1-2 a season. Its overblown.

He actually had one of the best catch ratios in the league this year.
 
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Dont know where to put this, but makes some good points @Russ Smith
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Its tough because they probably thought Isabella could be his Hollywood Brown. However, I think the reality is if Murphy was gone and N'Keal Harry was available thats who they were taking.

You can't have a QB that can't use the whole field. You just can't.
 
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I saw this a few days ago. Don't think I saw it posted here yet.

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TheCardFan

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He actually had one of the best catch ratios in the league this year.

I think we get it...you like Christian Kirk.

I just don't understand why you want to pay him 12-13m/year for an average of 57 yards per game and no touchdowns in his last 11 games played. And...he only has 4 100 yard games in 4 years. A lot of his catches - he really isn't open. It's a perfectly thrown/pinpoint accuracy ball from K1.

Don't get me wrong - I think we will miss some of these catches next year but I feel he is easily replaceable for much less.
 
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I think we get it...you like Christian Kirk.

I just don't understand why you want to pay him 12-13m/year for an average of 57 yards per game and no touchdowns in his last 11 games played. And...he only has 4 100 yard games in 4 years. A lot of his catches - he really isn't open. It's a perfectly thrown/pinpoint accuracy ball from K1.

Don't get me wrong - I think we will miss some of these catches next year but I feel he is easily replaceable for much less.

Actually I'm indifferent on Kirk.

I just think some people are deluded. The whole "he's a WR3 at best" talk is nonsense when he has the 4th highest WR2 yards.

Then people saying he's a butter fingers when he had the 7th best catch rate this year.

I just like accuracy. Plus I've been saying for years we misuse him which is clear when watching.

I expect him to leave. I'm looking forward to seeing him prove me right.
 

Russ Smith

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I mean, its happened like 4-5 times his whole time here? Averaging between 1-2 a season. Its overblown.

He actually had one of the best catch ratios in the league this year.

He dropped at least 2 TD's 2 years ago, one of them cost us a game. he had several big drops this year too. It's not 1-2 a year. He's a good player, i like him, but he has not taken the next step, he's not good after the catch and he's going to have those big drops that just kill you. Look at the Colts loss since it was a huge loss for us in the standings. Get the ball first drive right down the field, 3 and 3 from the 33 Kyler drops the ball right in Kirk's hands for a long gain possible TD, he drops it. Then we miss a FG because McCoy blew the hold. We lost that game by 6 points because of missed FG's and Xp's yes, but also because Kirk dropped a perfect ball on the first drive.

I realize some of it is I'm a Cards fan, I watch every game so I see all his drops where I don't see all of Keenan Allen's drops who according to NBC led the NFL in drops with 9. I get that. But Kirk's drops have been absolute killers the entire time he's been here. You can deal with Allen's drops because he's a great receiver, with Kirk it's a little harder, he's good, but he's not great.
 

Russ Smith

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Actually I'm indifferent on Kirk.

I just think some people are deluded. The whole "he's a WR3 at best" talk is nonsense when he has the 4th highest WR2 yards.

Then people saying he's a butter fingers when he had the 7th best catch rate this year.

I just like accuracy. Plus I've been saying for years we misuse him which is clear when watching.

I expect him to leave. I'm looking forward to seeing him prove me right.

For the record I want to keep him and I don't think he's butter fingers, but he has huge drops every year and they tend to be the big ones downfield or in the redzone because that's where we really try to use him.

The screens to him have never worked, Rondale didn't set the league on fire but Rondale had more good screens in the first 8 games this year than Kirk has had in 4 years, it's just not something he's good at, RAC. I thought he started off this year much better, I am not remotely saying he's a problem with the team, it's just as others are saying will the team want to pay what it's going to take to keep him? I think he's a good NFL WR, I hope we keep him because of that, but I don't believe he's a stud being held back by Kyler. The good thing this year is he played all 17 games, first time in his career, he's averaged missing 3 games a year which for a young WR has been an issue. Have the same concern with Rondale of course.
 

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He dropped at least 2 TD's 2 years ago, one of them cost us a game. he had several big drops this year too. It's not 1-2 a year. He's a good player, i like him, but he has not taken the next step, he's not good after the catch and he's going to have those big drops that just kill you. Look at the Colts loss since it was a huge loss for us in the standings. Get the ball first drive right down the field, 3 and 3 from the 33 Kyler drops the ball right in Kirk's hands for a long gain possible TD, he drops it. Then we miss a FG because McCoy blew the hold. We lost that game by 6 points because of missed FG's and Xp's yes, but also because Kirk dropped a perfect ball on the first drive.

I realize some of it is I'm a Cards fan, I watch every game so I see all his drops where I don't see all of Keenan Allen's drops who according to NBC led the NFL in drops with 9. I get that. But Kirk's drops have been absolute killers the entire time he's been here. You can deal with Allen's drops because he's a great receiver, with Kirk it's a little harder, he's good, but he's not great.

It's weird, because it's like there's a little bit of a disconnect between his stats, and watching him on the field. But he really did make a lot of big plays this year.

And you're also right that his drops, while few and far between, have seem to come at the most inopportune times. Still, I guess I can live with that.

But then there's the YAC issue. I think 2021 was a career low for him, 3.0 per catch? And we desperately need YAC guys. In the NFL, YAC = life.

So if he wants to comeback for a reasonable price, great. But if he holds a gun to our head for 13 million a year or something, I think we should roll with Moore or a draft pick instead.
 

GoldGloveschmidt

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Its saying he can use the whole field. He just prefers throwing to targets with size.

Which has been so obvious since his Oklahoma days, but Keim keeps on drafting 5'8" receivers that don't work well with Kyler. I'm sure Kliff contributes to that as well.
 

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Which has been so obvious since his Oklahoma days, but Keim keeps on drafting 5'8" receivers that don't work well with Kyler. I'm sure Kliff contributes to that as well.
The utter failure of the 2019 wr class set back this franchise (or kept it from reaching its potential).

Even though I wanted Oline. Its the reason they didnt draft Lamb or trade down for Jefferson (assuming its true the wr coach wanted him). Still had hope that Butler and Isabella will turn it on.

Keim probably feared the Patriots getting Isabella and thought Butler was as good as Metcalf.
 

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The utter failure of the 2019 wr class set back this franchise (or kept it from reaching its potential).

Even though I wanted Oline. Its the reason they didnt draft Lamb or trade down for Jefferson (assuming its true the wr coach wanted him). Still had hope that Butler and Isabella will turn it on.

Keim probably feared the Patriots getting Isabella and thought Butler was as good as Metcalf.

Still shocked that Butler completely busted, but you're a 1000% right. What a debacle were those two picks.

To be completely fair, even with those two picks totally busting, Keim's 2019 draft was still okay. Getting J. Thompson in the 5th offsets one of those busts. Still, our WR room failed down the stretch this year in part because of the Izzy and Butler misses.
 

SoonerLou

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Still shocked that Butler completely busted, but you're a 1000% right. What a debacle were those two picks.

To be completely fair, even with those two picks totally busting, Keim's 2019 draft was still okay. Getting J. Thompson in the 5th offsets one of those busts. Still, our WR room failed down the stretch this year in part because of the Izzy and Butler misses.
It was a solid draft. Just passed up/missed on getting a star player.

Could have had DK Metcalf and Hunter Renfroe technically.
 

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