Nuggets @ Suns Wednesday Playoff game thread 6-9-2021 - Game 2

[WhyAlwaysMe]

And you walk into it every single time.

Yes, I’m the one walking into the rake, not the people missing the point. Every. Time.

Question: Is Luka’s inability to play defense something that will affect his ability to win playoff series? Think about two time MVP Steve Nash before you answer.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

Michael Porter Jr. and Will Barton are available to play.

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“hopeful” is not “available”

Barton isn’t going to help that porous defense one bit.

 

[GatorAZ]

I have no problem with Joker as MVP. He’s as likable an opposing player as there is.

What bothers me more is CP3 in 5th. He was easily top 3.

Jokic, Embiid, Luka, Dame, Giannis and Paul are easily top-3 worthy but there’s only three spots. Worthy candidates will get left out.

 

[Chaplin]

Yes, I’m the one walking into the rake, not the people missing the point. Every. Time.

Question: Is Luka’s inability to play defense something that will affect his ability to win playoff series? Think about two time MVP Steve Nash before you answer.

It has nothing to do with whether you are wrong or right it’s how you treat people. I think you have some good points and some I don’t agree with. That’s not the point.

 

[Chaplin]

Jokic, Embiid, Luka, Dame, Giannis and Paul are easily top-3 worthy but there’s only three spots. Worthy candidates will get left out.

Chris Paul took a team that had 19 wins two years ago and took them to the 2nd best record in the entire NBA. That’s a pretty good pedigree.

 

[Hoop Head]

Nah. Just you and others failing to comprehend. Again. Like clockwork!

Again, NO ONE was being harsh towards Ayton. Everyone here has given him credit for being our best or second best player in almost every playoff game thus far.

Simply because no one was fawning over him at the moment, you decided to bring about a comparison to Luka. A rather weak comparison that was easy to counter with another view that wasn't as specific as your example.

Instead of fostering a debate or discussion though you go straight to trying to insult people. So what was the point of your initial post other than an attempt to pick a fight?

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

I also think Paul deserved more votes than Giannis and Curry. Those guys were in extremely strong systems and filled with guys that knew how to win already (somewhat less with Warriors, but they sucked this year). Also Curry missed a bunch of games. Paul was a rock.

 

[Strongstyle]

Chris Paul took a team that had 19 wins two years ago and took them to the 2nd best record in the entire NBA. That’s a pretty good pedigree.

No way you can give all that credit to CP3 for improving us from 2 years ago when he wasn't even here last year. And we went 8-0 in the bubble before he even came here. We were already trending up. And I doubt golden state would've been better this year with Paul instead of Curry.

 

[Hoop Head]

No way you can give all that credit to CP3 for improving us from 2 years ago when he wasn't even here last year. And we went 8-0 in the bubble before he even came here. We were already trending up. And I doubt golden state would've been better this year with Paul instead of Curry.

I agree. Paul deserves credit but I think Chap oversold it. He did take us from playoff hopeful to legit contender though so he definitely deserved the recognition he received.

 

[Chaplin]

No way you can give all that credit to CP3 for improving us from 2 years ago when he wasn't even here last year. And we went 8-0 in the bubble before he even came here. We were already trending up. And I doubt golden state would've been better this year with Paul instead of Curry.

Bubble bubble bubble. It was 8 games. What about the previous 40? We barely even made it into the bubble.

 

[Mainstreet]

Nuggets injury report from Mike Singer.

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[Strongstyle]

Bubble bubble bubble. It was 8 games. What about the previous 40? We barely even made it into the bubble.

We still missed the play in by what 1 game? That's already a huge improvement over 19 wins.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Chris Paul took a team that had 19 wins two years ago and took them to the 2nd best record in the entire NBA. That’s a pretty good pedigree.

Well, sure if you give him all the credit. I don't. I think he's been a great leader and has helped us a lot in short stretches but he's nowhere near the player he was 7 years ago. Prime CP was probably top 5 but just barely; our Paul is top 5 for a few minutes when we really need him but he's mostly just a solid all around PG the rest of the time.

 

[Chaplin]

Well, sure if you give him all the credit. I don't. I think he's been a great leader and has helped us a lot in short stretches but he's nowhere near the player he was 7 years ago. Prime CP was probably top 5 but just barely; our Paul is top 5 for a few minutes when we really need him but he's mostly just a solid all around PG the rest of the time.

But that isn't even close to the discussion. Nobody is saying Chris Paul is the best player in the NBA, the discussion is about whether he deserves top 3 in the Most Valuable Player discussion. And I think he does. I don't really think he deserves it over Jokic, or even Embiid, but he definitely should be in that conversation. And while the rest on that list belong in the discussion as well, they aren't top 3 like CP3 is.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Chris Paul finished 5th in NBA MVP voting.

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Respectable

 

[Mainstreet]

Michael Porter Jr. is now listed as QUESTIONABLE.

Will Barton is DOUBTFUL.

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[itlnsunsfan]

Luka, for all his skills, can’t slow down Joker.

Now Luka is MJ? K.

The point I’m making is that defense is 50% of the game and it’s treated like 10% by casuals like you and most fans. MJ could play a bit of defense. Do you remember? Are you old enough?

So by saying, "Luka can't slow down Joker", your point is, "defense is 50% of the game". Kind of a non sequitur, don't you think? I mean, Kawhi Leonard and Mikal Bridges can't slow down Joker. What does this statement say about defense? Gobert can't slow down Lillard. Does this statement infer offense is 50% of the game? Or defense is 50% of the game? I'm confused.

Yes, MJ could play defense, but he couldn't play defense effectively against the top centers of his era.

I mean, honestly, what point are you really trying to make? That Ayton was a better pick for us than Luka because he can play better defense? You're an advanced stats guy right? Who do the advanced stats say is a more impactful player?

This is just a very lazy and meritless comparison. Though, I think you like to antagonize people for your own amusement, I've generally felt that you're an intelligent poster. This is the first complete miss on logic I've seen from you that I can remember. So who sounds like the casual?

 

[taz02]

Maybe the point is an interior defensive 7' ft tall center who can put points on the board is more valuable than a scoring guard that doesn't play defense.

In my mind the DA in this playoffs has been worthy of the first overall pick and makes the Luka or Ayton comparison a wash.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

So by saying, "Luka can't slow down Joker", your point is, "defense is 50% of the game". Kind of a non sequitur, don't you think? I mean, Kawhi Leonard and Mikal Bridges can't slow down Joker. What does this statement say about defense? Gobert can't slow down Lillard. Does this statement infer offense is 50% of the game? Or defense is 50% of the game? I'm confused.

Yes, MJ could play defense, but he couldn't play defense effectively against the top centers of his era.

I mean, honestly, what point are you really trying to make? That Ayton was a better pick for us than Luka because he can play better defense? You're an advanced stats guy right? Who do the advanced stats say is a more impactful player?

This is just a very lazy and meritless comparison. Though, I think you like to antagonize people for your own amusement, I've generally felt that you're an intelligent poster. This is the first complete miss on logic I've seen from you that I can remember. So who sounds like the casual?

Depends on the advanced stat. Luka has the edge on some; Ayton others.

 

[Azlen]

Really interesting article on the Suns complex pick and roll scheme and how the coaches got Booker and CP to mesh. It's an Insider article unfortunately though.

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/st...-flummoxing-nba-league-most-complex-pick-roll


In the buildup to a close NBA Coach of the Year race between Tom Thibodeau of the New York Knicks and Monty Williams of the Phoenix Suns, a narrative arose that seemed to favor Thibodeau -- who eventually won: The Knicks were a Thibodeau team, the Suns a Chris Paul team.

That felt unfair to New York's players and Phoenix's coaches. It was impossible to watch Phoenix's evisceration of the Denver Nuggets in Game 1 of their Western Conference semifinals on Monday and not appreciate the job Williams and his staff (and his players) have done crafting perhaps the league's most sophisticated pick-and-roll attack. It was painstaking work, requiring high-level synchronicity and total buy-in into some non-glamour aspects of NBA offense.


...


It began to click midseason, and then cascaded into an overpowering wave of pick-and-roll destruction as everyone found their sweet spots. After Feb. 15, Phoenix demolished opponents by 10.5 points per 100 possessions with Booker and Paul sharing the floor.

Every trick was on display in Phoenix's rollicking Game 1 win over a Nuggets team that was in theory well-prepared for the Suns' offense after facing a pick-and-roll attack aimed at Nikola Jokic in their first-round win over the Portland Trail Blazers. Denver should have been ready.

They weren't, and it was because of all the layers and wrinkles Phoenix has piled atop what was once a basic offense.

 

[Larry Schweikart]

I listened to the post game. Expect lots of hard fouls by Denver in game 2. Sounded to me they want to emphasize hard fouls on the Suns and not give up AND1's. Unfortunately, we are going to have to be careful with Paul. He is going to be a target this entire playoffs and I wouldn't put it past some players to come down on the shoulder.

They fully intend on knocking the Suns around and they can't fall into it or get baited into stupid technical fouls. Denver is going to come out pissed just like the Lakers did. They are going to unleash Gordon. They brought him in just for this type of play. We did see some against Booker. You are going to get that x2 in the next game. This could be a super physical game.

Get this game and you are in full control of the series. You put Denver in a defensive position of defending their court against one of the best road teams in the NBA. The pressure on Denver would increase ten fold.

The Lakers, in losing, nevertheless set out the play book for how to try to beat the Suns. Thug them, bully them, esp. Booker and Ayton. This is the Pistons vs. the Bulls type confrontation. I expect much more Crowder, who seems unimpressed with those tactics. Be careful with Paul, though.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

The Lakers, in losing, nevertheless set out the play book for how to try to beat the Suns. Thug them, bully them, esp. Booker and Ayton. This is the Pistons vs. the Bulls type confrontation. I expect much more Crowder, who seems unimpressed with those tactics. Be careful with Paul, though.

I would be more worried about it from a team like the Lakers or Clippers, but Denver just doesn't strike me as a very physical team. Even if they are being told to be physical you still need to have players with a physical nature and I don't know that they do.

 

[95pro]

I would be more worried about it from a team like the Lakers or Clippers, but Denver just doesn't strike me as a very physical team. Even if they are being told to be physical you still need to have players with a physical nature and I don't know that they do.

For the most part, they're younger and dont have that old school mindset to get rough. And their leader, Jokic, just isn't that type of guy.

 

[Ronin]

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[JCSunsfan]

JC, you really are trying to be message board poison aren’t you?

We all have disagreements, but at the end of the day we’re all still fans of the same team. The sooner you realize that, the more engaged you’ll be with other posters.

Did I say something?