New Owner - Mat Ishbia

[Mainstreet]

... the only thing getting old fast is matt ishbia's tired attempt at outsmarting and out spending the nba

I think those days are over for a while.

Robert Sarver gradually learned as an owner when and how to spend money. Hopefully Mat Ishbia does the same.

 

[Chaplin]

I don't know if it's true or not, but there were rumors that some latter interviews for the Suns head coach were turning down the job.

Source? I know Chris Quinn withdrew, but he got pretty far before he did so. But usually turning down a job that late in the process, it's generally about $$$. If he or anyone else didn't want to be associated with the Organization, why bother interviewing with them at all?

 

[BirdGangThing]

yall think this ish is punny to me? im hurting too

 

[Hoop Head]

Phoenix Suns Reportedly Run Out of Money

With echoes of the dark days under former owner Robert Sarver, a leading NBA analyst reports that the Phoenix Suns may be running out of cash.

heavy.com

The Suns cutting cost has little to do with how much cash on hand Ishbia has. One key point not mentioned in the article is how he only owns about 60% of the Suns, the rest is owned by the group who bought it from Jerry with Sarver. Ishbia bought Sarver's stake and more so he became the managing general party and majority owner of the club. He doesn't have to front everything on his own, unless the others are demanding to be bought out.

Ishbia made it clear before last season though that the plan to get out from the tax was coming sooner than later because of repeater penalties, not just monetarily but pushing picks to the end of the draft as well. I'd need to see this from a more credible source before putting real stock in him hurting for cash.

It was clear to those not blinded by his foolish moves like bringing in KD and Beal though that money wasn't unlimited. I don't know how many times someone here said Ishbia would spend to keep us out of the lottery so the picks we gave up meant little to nothing but we learned that isn't the case the hard way. He set a record for payroll this year and we couldn't even make the play in. He won't continue to pay for gas to keep this dumpster fire going and the Nurkic salary dump made that apparent.

 

[Mainstreet]

Source? I know Chris Quinn withdrew, but he got pretty far before he did so. But usually turning down a job that late in the process, it's generally about $$$. If he or anyone else didn't want to be associated with the Organization, why bother interviewing with them at all?

This was mentioned in my travels around the internet. Whether they are or true or not, who knows.

However, I wouldn't be shocked if there were candidates who withdrew their names. I can't imagine this was considered a premier coaching position. And not many top candidates would want to go through a long hiring process.

 

[Chaplin]

This was mentioned in my travels around the internet. Whether they are or true or not, who knows.

However, I wouldn't be shocked if there were candidates who withdrew their names. I can't imagine this was considered a premier coaching position. And not many top candidates would want to go through a long hiring process.

That is an assumption with no basis in fact. You think the owner is an idiot, then that must be truth. Unfortunately, personal opinion blurs the line between what you think is the truth and what actually is. But that is really par for the course for a sports message board.

 

[Hoop Head]

This was mentioned in my travels around the internet. Whether they are or true or not, who knows.

However, I wouldn't be shocked if there were candidates who withdrew their names. I can't imagine this was considered a premier coaching position. And not many top candidates would want to go through a long hiring process.

I'd add in how we treated Monty, Vogel, and Budenholzer didn't help matters. Firing one? Sure. It happens and Monty flaming out in Detroit absolved the Suns from any long lasting heat from that firing. However Vogel being scapegoated after just a year and then Budenholzer winning less and the same dismissal? Top coaches weren't lining up to be here and deal with the headache for a year.

 

[Mainstreet]

That is an assumption with no basis in fact. You think the owner is an idiot, then that must be truth. Unfortunately, personal opinion blurs the line between what you think is the truth and what actually is. But that is really par for the course for a sports message board.

I'm telling you what I have read. I didn't say the part in bold. You did. Talk about exaggeration.

 

[Chaplin]

I'd add in how we treated Monty, Vogel, and Budenholzer didn't help matters. Firing one? Sure. It happens and Monty flaming out in Detroit absolved the Suns from any long lasting heat from that firing. However Vogel being scapegoated after just a year and then Budenholzer winning less and the same dismissal? Top coaches weren't lining up to be here and deal with the headache for a year.

Are we still on that myth that Vogel was a good coach for us and was fired just to scapegoat the owner and GM?

Vogel is a decent coach, just not for the Suns. He did some awful things when he was here, and people are forgetting that. Many things that parallel what Bud did. The argument can be made that he deserved the chance to right the ship, but that is different discussion. If you are willing to make that argument for Vogel, why not for Bud?

 

[Chaplin]

I'm telling you what I have read. I didn't say the part in bold. You did. Talk about exaggeration.

Jesus, it was an exaggeration, I never accused you of anything -- it was a generalization about the board. I guess I shouldn't have used the word, "you".

 

[Mainstreet]

Jesus, it was an exaggeration, I never accused you of anything -- it was a generalization about the board. I guess I shouldn't have used the word, "you".

Let's see what happens this summer. The recent GM and coaching hires have not instilled a lot of confidence among fans.

 

[Hoop Head]

Are we still on that myth that Vogel was a good coach for us and was fired just to scapegoat the owner and GM?

Vogel is a decent coach, just not for the Suns. He did some awful things when he was here, and people are forgetting that. Many things that parallel what Bud did. The argument can be made that he deserved the chance to right the ship, but that is different discussion. If you are willing to make that argument for Vogel, why not for Bud?

Vogel got more wins with less overall talent than Budenholzer. He wasn't perfect but he wasn't the problem, the roster was. The entire makeup of the team. I can only imagine how much better Vogel would have done with a mobile big like Oso or Richards as well as a legit defense pitbull like Dunn. He likely would have got us back to the playoffs and a better record than year 1 of his tenure. Would we have won a championship? No. As I said, he wasn't the problem but he also wasn't the solution. Phil Jackson, Popovich, or Red Auerbach couldn't have led this team to a title though. Vogel was scapegoated. I wasn't a fan of his throughout his time here but didn't realize how much he did until we saw a different coach try a completely different system.

I don't blame Budenholzer for how bad this team was either. Again, he wasn't perfect and did plenty wrong, much more wrong than Vogel however. I would have been fine if he was retained if there were a real plan in place to better the roster for him.

Wear your purple and orange glasses, fine. I don't believe we've made the right moves for the last 3 years and we can go over them but it's looking like its going to get a bit worse before we start trending up.

Please though, instead of critiquing what I didn't say, why are you so on edge with those of us who don't have much faith in the future? Share with us how your views on why the future will be better.

 

[Superbone]

Vogel got more wins with less overall talent than Budenholzer. He wasn't perfect but he wasn't the problem, the roster was. The entire makeup of the team. I can only imagine how much better Vogel would have done with a mobile big like Oso or Richards as well as a legit defense pitbull like Dunn. He likely would have got us back to the playoffs and a better record than year 1 of his tenure. Would we have won a championship? No. As I said, he wasn't the problem but he also wasn't the solution. Phil Jackson, Popovich, or Red Auerbach couldn't have led this team to a title though. Vogel was scapegoated. I wasn't a fan of his throughout his time here but didn't realize how much he did until we saw a different coach try a completely different system.

I don't blame Budenholzer for how bad this team was either. Again, he wasn't perfect and did plenty wrong, much more wrong than Vogel however. I would have been fine if he was retained if there were a real plan in place to better the roster for him.

Wear your purple and orange glasses, fine. I don't believe we've made the right moves for the last 3 years and we can go over them but it's looking like its going to get a bit worse before we start trending up.

Please though, instead of critiquing what I didn't say, why are you so on edge with those of us who don't have much faith in the future? Share with us how your views on why the future will be better.

Yep. We had a balanced roster that was ruined in quick order.

 

[Hoop Head]

Yep. We had a balanced roster that was ruined in quick order.

I was a loud Vogel critic and it was clear by December with Budenholzer what the real issues were and how well Vogel actually did here defensively. His rotations were weird but comparing the two rosters I think we all agree Bud had more talent at his disposal, and boy he did dispose of them. The longer Bud coached though the glaring issues became clear that this team was flawed from a personnel standpoint. We had a real team and then we had KD, Book, and scrubs. Then we had KD, Book, and a MASH unit.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't know if it's true or not, but there were rumors that some latter interviews for the Suns head coach were turning down the job.

I hadn’t seen this? Who was reporting this?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Source? I know Chris Quinn withdrew, but he got pretty far before he did so. But usually turning down a job that late in the process, it's generally about $$$. If he or anyone else didn't want to be associated with the Organization, why bother interviewing with them at all?

Didn’t know that. He was my favorite. That stinks.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Phoenix Suns Reportedly Run Out of Money

With echoes of the dark days under former owner Robert Sarver, a leading NBA analyst reports that the Phoenix Suns may be running out of cash.

heavy.com

Lol… what?

 

[GatorAZ]

Sadly, the trades for Kevin Durant and Bradley Beal dwarfs the bad Kurt Thomas trade under Robert Sarver.

I disagree. The KT trade was a loser-minded trade. The Suns could’ve added a legitimately good player like Mike Miller or Rashard Lewis for that expiring plus picks. We were coming off a 61-win season in which we were arguably the best team in the league losing to the champs.

The KD trade was horrible in hindsight but it was made with the idea to win.

 

[Mainstreet]

I disagree. The KT trade was a loser-minded trade. The Suns could’ve added a legitimately good player like Mike Miller or Rashard Lewis for that expiring plus picks. We were coming off a 61-win season in which we were arguably the best team in the league losing to the champs.

The KD trade was horrible in hindsight but it was made with the idea to win.

I'm talking about damage to the Suns. The consequences of the Durant trade will be felt for years and years, far more than the Kurt Thomas trade.

Also, Steve Kerr showed his inexperience as a GM. It's perplexing he felt the need to attach two first round picks to trade a player that had positive value.

 

[swagron]

Phoenix Suns Reportedly Run Out of Money

With echoes of the dark days under former owner Robert Sarver, a leading NBA analyst reports that the Phoenix Suns may be running out of cash.

heavy.com

This thing has gone full circle. From all the money in the world to running out of money?

 

[JerkFace]

Didn’t know that. He was my favorite. That stinks.

I doubt the validity of this. One rando claimed it on Twitter. No more, no less.

 

[Phrazbit]

I'd add in how we treated Monty, Vogel, and Budenholzer didn't help matters. Firing one? Sure. It happens and Monty flaming out in Detroit absolved the Suns from any long lasting heat from that firing. However Vogel being scapegoated after just a year and then Budenholzer winning less and the same dismissal? Top coaches weren't lining up to be here and deal with the headache for a year.

We're on our 4th coach in 2 1/2 years. It's obviously a terrible look no matter what the names attached were.