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Vacard

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Disagree. I'd trade KM for the kid. He's going to be good. He's just young and raw and had an idiot head coach that didn't give him first-team snaps in practice for the most part.
HAHAHAHAHAHA
Kyler Murray was a better rookie through 5 games in his rookie career ON A WORSE TEAM that went number one overall in the previous year with a rookie head coach who had NO previous NFL coaching experience
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Stout

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HAHAHAHAHAHA
Kyler Murray was a better rookie through 5 games in his rookie career ON A WORSE TEAM that went number one overall in the previous year with a rookie head coach who had NO previous NFL coaching experience
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38-3
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That's nice. I've seen enough of KM to know he's not the guy to lead us to the promised land. Pickett has potential and one thing KM seems to lack: Heart. Heart isn't enough, but, as we can see, you can have all the talent in the world, but if you don't have the heart, you aren't doing jack.
 

DVontel

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Disagree. I'd trade KM for the kid. He's going to be good. He's just young and raw and had an idiot head coach that didn't give him first-team snaps in practice for the most part.
That idiot head coach has never had a losing season in his career.

Steelers will move on from Pickett once they come to realization he has no inspiring traits(I’ll give it about 3-4 years), & he’ll be holding a clipboard by 5-6.
 

Bkbobo

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That's nice. I've seen enough of KM to know he's not the guy to lead us to the promised land. Pickett has potential and one thing KM seems to lack: Heart. Heart isn't enough, but, as we can see, you can have all the talent in the world, but if you don't have the heart, you aren't doing jack.
He may have heart, but does he have moxie and takes his job seriously?

:thewave: :thumbup:
 

Stout

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That idiot head coach has never had a losing season in his career.

Steelers will move on from Pickett once they come to realization he has no inspiring traits(I’ll give it about 3-4 years), & he’ll be holding a clipboard by 5-6.
Oh, he's been a good coach, but he's now a coach desperately trying to cling to exactly that legacy. Rather than prepare the team for the future because they were in no condition to compete this season, he did all in his power to beat back a losing season. Mitch freaking Trubisky? Tomlin figured it was better than rolling with a rookie. Yeah, that didn't pan out. Coupled with his baffling OC decision, he's lost a lot of cred here in Pittsburgh. Good coach for a long time, but now making bad choices.

Agree to disagree on Pickett, especially ignoring the actual inspiring trait of leadership ability and how much heart and drive he has. He has intangibles galore; I think you mean to quibble with his tangibles, which is fair.
 

DVontel

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Oh, he's been a good coach, but he's now a coach desperately trying to cling to exactly that legacy. Rather than prepare the team for the future because they were in no condition to compete this season, he did all in his power to beat back a losing season. Mitch freaking Trubisky? Tomlin figured it was better than rolling with a rookie. Yeah, that didn't pan out. Coupled with his baffling OC decision, he's lost a lot of cred here in Pittsburgh. Good coach for a long time, but now making bad choices.

Agree to disagree on Pickett, especially ignoring the actual inspiring trait of leadership ability and how much heart and drive he has. He has intangibles galore; I think you mean to quibble with his tangibles, which is fair.
Ugh, the “he has heart” thing again. You’re not just getting by with “intangibles” and heart in this football era today. You need actual physical traits, which unfortunately for him, he wasn’t blessed with. He’s a Pitt guy so I understand the defending, but he’s just not going to last long in the league where you need an actual physical trait to stick out. His floor is pretty low & his ceiling isn’t really high because of it.
 

BritCard

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Oh, he's been a good coach, but he's now a coach desperately trying to cling to exactly that legacy. Rather than prepare the team for the future because they were in no condition to compete this season, he did all in his power to beat back a losing season. Mitch freaking Trubisky? Tomlin figured it was better than rolling with a rookie. Yeah, that didn't pan out. Coupled with his baffling OC decision, he's lost a lot of cred here in Pittsburgh. Good coach for a long time, but now making bad choices.

Agree to disagree on Pickett, especially ignoring the actual inspiring trait of leadership ability and how much heart and drive he has. He has intangibles galore; I think you mean to quibble with his tangibles, which is fair.

Easy to be a good head coach when you have a good quarterback.

Easy to be a good GM when you have a good quarterback and good head coach.

Tomlin is a good head coach. But you can only really show that when you have a good QB.
 

Stout

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Ugh, the “he has heart” thing again. You’re not just getting by with “intangibles” and heart in this football era today. You need actual physical traits, which unfortunately for him, he wasn’t blessed with. He’s a Pitt guy so I understand the defending, but he’s just not going to last long in the league where you need an actual physical trait to stick out. His floor is pretty low & his ceiling isn’t really high because of it.
Oh, I hate Pitt as much as I hate the Stillers, although I love Pittsburgh. I'm a Penn State fan. And the one draft season, when they were talking that Pickett could be a late-round pick, I didn't buy it. He had the intangibles, but I didn't see the tangibles. I agree that you can't just get by on heart and moxy. Where I'll disagree is that not all physical traits are perfectly measurable. Just ask Quan. His last season at Pitt, Pickett proved me wrong in a big way, so now I believe in him. I very much think he'll come good, if the situation around him resolves and after he takes his rookie lumps.
 

Stout

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Easy to be a good head coach when you have a good quarterback.

Easy to be a good GM when you have a good quarterback and good head coach.

Tomlin is a good head coach. But you can only really show that when you have a good QB.
Meh, the rotting corpse of Ben Roethlisberger disagrees. Tomlin is a good head coach who has decided to protect his legacy of never having a losing season rather than trying to rebuild his team. And he has gone about it very poorly. A local radio personality made a great point that even good head coaches can just be in a place too long and, though they remain good, the situation doesn't work any longer.

Trubisky was never going to be the guy. Using him as a bridge QB? Meh, I disagreed with the decision, but some coaches want that when you have a rookie QB. The problem was, he made Pickett the THIRD string QB in training camp, only elevating him late, and gave him barely more than a handful of first-team reps. REPS, for the whole preseason. This despite him looking good in practice and picking up the offense quickly. Then he wasn't getting the reps in practice during the season, either. Add in that Canada sucks and his offense is ridiculously bad, and Pickett has been disadvantaged from day one.

Keeping Canada; hiring Canada in the first place; favoring a vet over the future of the franchise. These are ways in which a good coach can make bad decision to hurt his team.
 

BritCard

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Meh, the rotting corpse of Ben Roethlisberger disagrees. Tomlin is a good head coach who has decided to protect his legacy of never having a losing season rather than trying to rebuild his team. And he has gone about it very poorly. A local radio personality made a great point that even good head coaches can just be in a place too long and, though they remain good, the situation doesn't work any longer.

Trubisky was never going to be the guy. Using him as a bridge QB? Meh, I disagreed with the decision, but some coaches want that when you have a rookie QB. The problem was, he made Pickett the THIRD string QB in training camp, only elevating him late, and gave him barely more than a handful of first-team reps. REPS, for the whole preseason. This despite him looking good in practice and picking up the offense quickly. Then he wasn't getting the reps in practice during the season, either. Add in that Canada sucks and his offense is ridiculously bad, and Pickett has been disadvantaged from day one.

Keeping Canada; hiring Canada in the first place; favoring a vet over the future of the franchise. These are ways in which a good coach can make bad decision to hurt his team.

Big Ben proves the point.

Tomkins was a Grade A HC up until 2019. Ben missed nearly all the season and they went 8-8 around a great defense but no playoffs. Ben came back in 2020 and threw for nearly 4000 yards and 33 TDs and they went 12-4 and the playoffs.

Even Big Bens corpse last year was better than what they have now and they went 9-7 and made the playoffs.

Quarterbacks make teams. 90% of what is good about any team is the quarterback. Very rare to see a QB playing well and teams losing. Equally rare to see a QB playing poorly and consistently winning.
 

Stout

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Big Ben proves the point.

Tomkins was a Grade A HC up until 2019. Ben missed nearly all the season and they went 8-8 around a great defense but no playoffs. Ben came back in 2020 and threw for nearly 4000 yards and 33 TDs and they went 12-4 and the playoffs.

Even Big Bens corpse last year was better than what they have now and they went 9-7 and made the playoffs.

Quarterbacks make teams. 90% of what is good about any team is the quarterback. Very rare to see a QB playing well and teams losing. Equally rare to see a QB playing poorly and consistently winning.
You're trying to boil this situation down to simple cause and effect, and it's certainly much murkier than that. They weren't going to be good this year without TJ Watt, because Trubisky is a never has been, never will be, and Pickett, even with adequate preparation, wasn't going to carry a team in his rookie season. So having a losing record this year would not make him a bad coach. He is a good coach, no question, but has made some bad decisions leading up to and in this season.

Not giving Pickett reps is criminal. I don't think anyone can argue that. Very few rated Canada before last season, and most here wanted him gone in the offseason. The fact that he's still the OC is incredible. Tomlin trying to maintain status quo simply to scrape to a .500 or better record this season is hurting his team's development, and their star quarterback's development to boot.
 

kerouac9

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Big Ben proves the point.

Tomkins was a Grade A HC up until 2019. Ben missed nearly all the season and they went 8-8 around a great defense but no playoffs. Ben came back in 2020 and threw for nearly 4000 yards and 33 TDs and they went 12-4 and the playoffs.

Even Big Bens corpse last year was better than what they have now and they went 9-7 and made the playoffs.

Quarterbacks make teams. 90% of what is good about any team is the quarterback. Very rare to see a QB playing well and teams losing. Equally rare to see a QB playing poorly and consistently winning.
The difference between last year and this year isn't Ben Rapistberger. It's reigning Defensive Player of the Year T.J. Watt. C'mon, man.

It's exceptionally hard to be a consistently good team without a consistently good quarterback. Tomlin has managed to do that for a pretty long time.
 

Stout

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The difference between last year and this year isn't Ben Rapistberger. It's reigning Defensive Player of the Year T.J. Watt. C'mon, man.

It's exceptionally hard to be a consistently good team without a consistently good quarterback. Tomlin has managed to do that for a pretty long time.
Yep. With TJ in the lineup, they still would've had a shot at .500 or better, even with bungling the QB position. Without him...2-5 heading into the Eagles game.
 

Vacard

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That's nice. I've seen enough of KM to know he's not the guy to lead us to the promised land. Pickett has potential and one thing KM seems to lack: Heart. Heart isn't enough, but, as we can see, you can have all the talent in the world, but if you don't have the heart, you aren't doing jack.
You need an ARM in the NFL and Pickett is a CHECKDOWN qb on the same mode as Lienart; he Checkdown passes KM regularly throws to and you want this bum whose only claim to fame is a “fake slideeeee” on this team??
 

Stout

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You need an ARM in the NFL and Pickett is a CHECKDOWN qb on the same mode as Lienart; he Checkdown passes KM regularly throws to and you want this bum whose only claim to fame is a “fake slideeeee” on this team??
I get it. You're a fan of KM and I'm not. There are also question marks surrounding Pickett. I get that, too. I'm cool with us disagreeing. Mine is a radical take.
 

Vacard

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I get it. You're a fan of KM and I'm not. There are also question marks surrounding Pickett. I get that, too. I'm cool with us disagreeing. Mine is a radical take.
Nah I’m being RATIONAL here. You are not and that’s what I’m calling out. Your argument (and most anti-Kyler members) doesn’t even come with logic and stats to back it up. Just emotional conjecture.
 

Stout

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Nah I’m being RATIONAL here. You are not and that’s what I’m calling out. Your argument (and most anti-Kyler members) doesn’t even come with logic and stats to back it up. Just emotional conjecture.
So, I can allow you to have your opinion but you want to Trump all over mine? Fine then. I was ready to move on, but you want to talk about all-caps "rational."

Rational is watching KM come up short, not learn from his mistakes, come out this season like he's playing with his helmet on backwards, and stink. Rational is crunching the stats from the stretch run last season, and especially the playoff game, and just shaking your head at the kid. He doesn't have it. I doubt he ever will.
 

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