NBA Draft 7-29-2021: Suns select?

Chaplin

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Not our coaches or organization. Is it the biggest thing in the world? No. Do small things result in championships? Yes they do.
Not this. A G League player is never going to be the difference between a title and losing in the Finals.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Not this. A G League player is never going to be the difference between a title and losing in the Finals.
Well Khris middleton was in the g league as a rookie. so that statement isn’t true.

Past Call-Ups have included current NBA standouts Chris Andersen — the league’s first-ever Call-Up to the Denver Nuggets in 2001 — Danny Green (Reno Bighorns to San Antonio Spurs in 2010-11), Gerald Green (Los Angeles D-Fenders to New Jersey Nets in 2010-11), Hassan Whiteside (Iowa Energy to Miami Heat in 2014-15), Robert Covington (Grand Rapids Drive to Philadelphia 76ers in 2014-15), Yogi Ferrell
 

Covert Rain

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@Covert Rain

I think you will find this article interesting. The talent pool is getting deeper for teams that seek like the Heat and Raptors. It's not as much about math as the effort spent to find and develop these players.

By Brian Windhorst ESPN Senior Writer:

"You're seeing more undrafted guys contribute, and I think a possible reason is the difference between the 25th player in the draft and the 95th player is getting thinner," said Nurse, who won a championship as a G League head coach and has always believed in the potential of players in the minors. "It makes player development and using your G League team important factors."


Again not saying it never happens. However, the numbers are extremely lopsided. That doesn't even factor the number of years it takes to develop that talent assuming you nailed one.
 

Chaplin

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Well Khris middleton was in the g league as a rookie. so that statement isn’t true.

Past Call-Ups have included current NBA standouts Chris Andersen — the league’s first-ever Call-Up to the Denver Nuggets in 2001 — Danny Green (Reno Bighorns to San Antonio Spurs in 2010-11), Gerald Green (Los Angeles D-Fenders to New Jersey Nets in 2010-11), Hassan Whiteside (Iowa Energy to Miami Heat in 2014-15), Robert Covington (Grand Rapids Drive to Philadelphia 76ers in 2014-15), Yogi Ferrell
What's your argument here? Detroit sent him to the G-League a bunch his rookie season. So what? By that rationale, Jalen Smith could end up like Khris Middleton?

I don't know what your so upset about. Jalen Smith has had plenty of time to learn our playbooks. The whole purpose of the G-League is to get time on the court. "Plays" are secondary because, you know, 85% of that league will never sniff an NBA roster. Are you mad we don't have our own affiliate? Why?
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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What's your argument here? Detroit sent him to the G-League a bunch his rookie season. So what? By that rationale, Jalen Smith could end up like Khris Middleton?

I don't know what your so upset about. Jalen Smith has had plenty of time to learn our playbooks. The whole purpose of the G-League is to get time on the court. "Plays" are secondary because, you know, 85% of that league will never sniff an NBA roster. Are you mad we don't have our own affiliate? Why?
Sigh, “so upset?” cmon chap. We have always heard in every sport that details won championships. If your team isn’t do absolutely everything possible to win they’re lagging competition. It’s that simple. And if you think “plays” are the only thing that owning a g league team means you’re missing the importance of culture you’re missing the importance of integration of coaching teams and the ability to dictate what a player works on and court time, etc.

That said, my previous post was just meant to blow your comment that no g league impacted winning a championship off the site. Mission accomplished.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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What's your argument here? Detroit sent him to the G-League a bunch his rookie season. So what? By that rationale, Jalen Smith could end up like Khris Middleton?

I don't know what your so upset about. Jalen Smith has had plenty of time to learn our playbooks. The whole purpose of the G-League is to get time on the court. "Plays" are secondary because, you know, 85% of that league will never sniff an NBA roster. Are you mad we don't have our own affiliate? Why?
Also that 85% leaves a WHOPPING 15% that will see the court. Your team hits on the one or two gems and you’re years ahead of where you would’ve been otherwise. But yeah, let’s let that be another team . . .
 

Chaplin

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Sigh, “so upset?” cmon chap. We have always heard in every sport that details won championships. If your team isn’t do absolutely everything possible to win they’re lagging competition. It’s that simple. And if you think “plays” are the only thing that owning a g league team means you’re missing the importance of culture you’re missing the importance of integration of coaching teams and the ability to dictate what a player works on and court time, etc.

That said, my previous post was just meant to blow your comment that no g league impacted winning a championship off the site. Mission accomplished.
I think you're overblowing it by a lot. Using a few games by Khris Middleton in 2012 isn't exactly a good support to your argument. Most rookies from the last 10 years spent some time in the G-League. That doesn't make them a "G-Leaguer" in a strict definition of the term.

It's not like they are in the G-League the entire season anyway. Middleton played in 3 games in the G-League. 3!! How helpful for culture and coachability do you think those 3 games were? He played in 27 games with Detroit that year. He's not a G-Leaguer.
 

Chaplin

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Also that 85% leaves a WHOPPING 15% that will see the court. Your team hits on the one or two gems and you’re years ahead of where you would’ve been otherwise. But yeah, let’s let that be another team . . .
There are AT LEAST 290 players in the G-League (29 teams, with a minimum of 10 players per team). 15% is only 43 players out of 290. And how many of those 43 would end up like Khris Middleton (i.e. a crucial star in an NBA Finals)? 2, 3 tops? Come on. Milwaukee is blessed in that Middleton is a good player and was always going to be a good player. Those 3 games in the G-League had NOTHING to do with it.
 

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The NBA Draft is a grab bag after a certain point.

I'm not sure where the cutoff is but there should be surprises when teams get into the twenties.

Sandro Mamukelashvili is a big C/F prospect with talent that make go late second round or may go undrafted.

 

Finito

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I will be really disappointed if we don’t make a move. The 29th pick isn’t going to put us over the edge. It’s already been gone over the success rate that low in the draft.

I think Bridges, Cam, Crowder, Stix, 29 can all be on the table. Out of those I’d prefer Cam and Stix to stay but who knows
 

Covert Rain

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I have heard multiple insiders say they are hearing this season might be very trade heavy. One of the busiest ever. If that is true, I would expect to see a bunch of these picks be part of those trades. These next couple days sound interesting. The Lakers want a starting PG material it sounds like and have all kinds of things in the works.

Just is going to add pressure to James Jones to make a move. He can't stand pat when other teams are adding IMO.
 

Covert Rain

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The NBA Draft is a grab bag after a certain point.

I'm not sure where the cutoff is but there should be surprises when teams get into the twenties.

Sandro Mamukelashvili is a big C/F prospect with talent that make go late second round or may go undrafted.

I found this and this is why the Suns should make a move if they need a impact player now. If they are in rebuild mode that is different. They used data over 25 years. It appears it's basically a grab bag after 3 picks and after the first 7 the odds are straight up against you. Sure you can get lucky but the odds are against you. Show me a team that relies on this luck and I will show you a team that won't stay on top very long.

This first thing seems offensive focused but it's also based on the idea that even you are a lottery pick for defense or passing the idea in the NBA is that you can at least score in double figures (min 10) and contribute to your team. There will always be outliers but these numbers are for MOST NBA players. This holds true if you watched what happened when Bridges, Cam or Crowder scored in double figures for example.

80 percent of the players drafted No. 1, 2 and 3 have averaged at least 10 points in the NBA or more.
Picks 4-7 61 percent.
Picks 8-11 42 percent
Picks 12-15 29 percent.
Beyond pick 15?

The odds of a player staying in the NBA (within 5 years of being drafted) after the lottery picks are around 42% for non-lottery picks. Around 20% are still in the league after the 1st round.

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Covert Rain

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Here is another analysis showing win shares by pick, the top 25 picks of all time and their impact to win shares. Only 5 players drafted outside the top 10 and nothing lower than 14 has had a major impact on their teams win shares. So to me this means if the Suns want a better shot at an impact player drafting above 10 isn't likely to get it done.

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Ouchie-Z-Clown

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There are AT LEAST 290 players in the G-League (29 teams, with a minimum of 10 players per team). 15% is only 43 players out of 290. And how many of those 43 would end up like Khris Middleton (i.e. a crucial star in an NBA Finals)? 2, 3 tops? Come on. Milwaukee is blessed in that Middleton is a good player and was always going to be a good player. Those 3 games in the G-League had NOTHING to do with it.
You’re right. The suns should ignore a potential source of talent.
 

Chaplin

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You’re right. The suns should ignore a potential source of talent.
Hmm, nobody said ignore, but thanks for putting words in my mouth. I just don't think the G-League is as big a source as you'd like it to be. And it has nothing to do with whether we have an affiliate or not. You think it's a mistake not to have one. I disagree. That's it.
 
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