Murray may not run at Pro Day Today (3/13)

[b8rtm8nn]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

I like this video, so much less biased than this board

If the kid is that good - I work like hell to get a good trade for Rosen, if no trades available - I still take Murray and hold onto Rosen until the market improves. Not sure why anyone would actually care if Rosen or Murray is our quarterback next year, as long as they are successful.

 

[Arz101]

Trading down is the LAST thing I want to do.

Yup, Cardinals stay put and draft Bosa. Move up in the second round into the first and get a player they had top 15-20 and slipped to get that 5th year option.

 

[Solar7]

I like this video, so much less biased than this board

If the kid is that good - I work like hell to get a good trade for Rosen, if no trades available - I still take Murray and hold onto Rosen until the market improves. Not sure why anyone would actually care if Rosen or Murray is our quarterback next year, as long as they are successful.

I mean, I care because it means we gave up a 1st, third and fifth for nothing. That's three players that could have been growing and developing on this roster, which will now be nada, zilch, zip, besides a disgruntled backup.

 

[BW52]

I will repeat.Since when has trading down in the first round worked out for the Cards?I have very little faith in SKs trade-down judgement.SK trying to be the smartest man in the room scares me.Easy choice IMHO-pick Bosa and don`t overthink it.

 

[b8rtm8nn]

I mean, I care because it means we gave up a 1st, third and fifth for nothing. That's three players that could have been growing and developing on this roster, which will now be nada, zilch, zip, besides a disgruntled backup.

I get that, but I am more upset that Keim wasn’t prepared to go all in on Watson or Mahomes the previous year. 2017 was, to me, the real downfall of the Cards and 2018 was the reckoning from that lack of vision.

 

[slanidrac16]

I will repeat.Since when has trading down in the first round worked out for the Cards?I have very little faith in SKs trade-down judgement.SK trying to be the smartest man in the room scares me.Easy choice IMHO-pick Bosa and don`t overthink it.

Probably never. But if you look st the Saints draft a few years ago they crushed it and are the tesm they are today becsuse of it...well that and Drew Brees.

 

[overseascardfan]

I think that's perfectly fair sir. You seem to be a student of the game, and I appreciate your contributions to the discussion.

FWIW, it appears the Cardinals have scheduled a private workout with Murray. I Hope they address the items you note above.

Much appreciated CW, obviously the discussion on Murray will go until probably the end of next season depending on how he does his rookie year. If ARZ landed Riley then yeah I would be more open to Murray in ARZ but I am cautious of a QB change when Rosen wasn't exactly set up for success last year.

You are correct in that ARZ will get answers to their questions when they host him for his private workout. Another concern to me is that ARZ has not yet done anything in FA to answer questions on OL and WR, obviously those areas will need to be addressed in draft or it doesn't matter who is QB in ARZ next year because we'll have a repeat of last year.

 

[Solar7]

I get that, but I am more upset that Keim wasn’t prepared to go all in on Watson or Mahomes the previous year. 2017 was, to me, the real downfall of the Cards and 2018 was the reckoning from that lack of vision.

I've had this argument a hundred times - we don't know what Keim did or didn't do exactly, but the fact of the matter is the offers that came in for those two players where they did were offers we couldn't compete with.

If we had given up out 1st rounder in the following year to move up 1-3 picks, we would have been raked over the coals by everyone. Fans, media, etc. In hindsight it wouldn't have mattered if those players were this successful here, but at the time, it would have been laughable.

 

[TJ]

TJ, I'm really, really tired of your side trotting out the idea the Murray doesn't love football, or that he is somehow divided between football and baseball.

Murray was born to be a football player. Here's the proof:

He was drafted by the A's, and signed his major league contract well before the 2018 college football season started.

He had a pro baseball contract, a $5,000,000 signing bonus, and a career as a professional athlete, all in hand. He was set for life bro.

For life.

But with all of that in his back pocket, with nothing but freshly cut green grass, batting practice, and seventh-inning-stretches ahead of him, he still chose to risk it all, playing, for free, the incredibly violent game of football. He loves football TJ. He loves it more than you can ever comprehend.

So you just think about this sir, before the next time you type out how "baseball is a red flag" for Murray.

Shame on you and your minions.

Chill, man. This is a discussion about a game, not a presidential debate.

You have to understand that this is the #1 pick in the entire draft, which basically means that any and all boxes need to be checked off before making a choice. One of those is the player's passion for the game. I'd ask that about Bosa, Allen, Williams, and all of the others. It's an obvious question for Murray because he does have the baseball background, which elicits legit trepidation about his desire to stay with the game when things get tough or he gets too injured to play the sport, but also, he's had some awkward interviews in the past about his desire to play. Sure, declining a lucrative contract from baseball is telling, but it's also negatively reinforcing for him to avoid playing in cities like Ames, Olathe, Stillwater, and other truck stop cities. Still, at the same time, if he wanted to come back to baseball, he'd be welcomed with open arms.

I know you want your Boomer Sooner boy to get picked, but you have to be mindful of the concerns that surround him, at the same time.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

4+24+27?

Yes

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

What's best for the Cardinals isn't always going to be what's best for “the cards head coach”. What “the cards head coach” wants doesn't (and shouldn't) matter nearly as much as people make it seem.

I’ve changed this to essentially say the same thing. I’m curious how many posters agree with this statement. I don’t.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

May I remind you of the year 2003
The Cardinals had pick 10 and they traded it for picks 17 AND 18

The Ravens got
Terrell Suggs with pick 10

The Cardinals got
Bryant Johnson pick 17
Calvin Pace pick 18

15 years later the Cards are still looking at that trade in the face

Always remember wherever your team is picking is where they should be picking.

Cardinals should be picking first and taking whomever their guy is and don't look back. More does not mean better...remember the Suggs trade

Uh you got that wrong. We moved from 6 to 17/18. That’s a LOT different than moving 1 to 4. Monumentally different.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Exactly. I half wonder if Keim isn't being honest. He keeps talking about missing out on guys that have talent and athleticism because they don't have a love for the game.

Murray wasn't even planning on playing football until he decided not to do baseball. Football is his rebound girlfriend.

False. “Rebound” suggests he failed at baseball. He chose football over baseball. Let’s not start making up stuff to fit a narrative now.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Would Kyler Murray have had he year he had at OU last year at LSU, MICH, TAMU, etc? Lincoln Riley's offense makes QB's, I expect Jalen Hurts to win the Heisman next year (if he is eligible to play next year) if not then Spencer Rattler.

Eh you could make that argument with any player and system. What limits that argument is that his predecessor in that system did well at the nfl level. So perhaps it’s equally valid to then assume that lincoln riley’s system really prepares a qb well for the next level, no?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

My concern CW is that unless Kingbury is running a shotgun based spread offense exactly like Riley's, Murray is going to struggle. He took drop backs at his pro day and was applauded for it because he looked natural, he should have, he had 3 months to work on it. I would have like to see him in 7 on 7 drills taking snaps from someone other than a coach facing him and handing him the ball with OL/DL lined up right in front of him. Pro days are overrated, they aren't any different than the Combine with the exception that the player is in a familiar environment working with his own teammates and coaches, that is why agents advise their clients to not participate at Combine in drills.

Did the browns run Riley’s offense last year?

 

[juza76]

murray didnt run, he didnt do any drills like if he doesnt need to increase his draft stocks and that is pretty weird cause on paper he is far from being an unanimous first overall pick
or does he know already he will be the first pick

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

murray didnt run, he didnt do any drills like if he doesnt need to increase his draft stocks and that is pretty weird cause on paper he is far from being an unanimous first overall pick
or does he know already he will be the first pick

Or is his stock highest not doing the drills. That could also be the case. Wouldn’t make me warm and fuzzy if that’s the case, but can’t fault him if it is.

 

[overseascardfan]

Eh you could make that argument with any player and system. What limits that argument is that his predecessor in that system did well at the nfl level. So perhaps it’s equally valid to then assume that lincoln riley’s system really prepares a qb well for the next level, no?

You can also argue that Mayfield was successful at Texas Tech before landing in Norman so he didn't just become a successful QB under Riley whereas Murray flamed out at Texas A&M. Some may say that Sumlin didn't give him a fair shake or use him right but Sumlin did make Manziel into a Heisman Trophy winner before Murray. If that kid wasn't such a jack ass he'd still be playing on Sundays.

Did the browns run Riley’s offense last year?

Mayfield took snaps from under center in CLE which will be interesting to see if Murray can do as well. I contest that Mayfield was the much more polished QB going into the NFL, he wasn't a one year wonder like Murray was last year.

I also laugh when people say Murray is the next Russell Wilson because they're short and have a baseball background. Wilson also was a very polished QB going into the draft playing in pro-style offenses at both NC State & Wisconsin and like Mayfield not a one year wonder.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You can also argue that Mayfield was successful at Texas Tech before landing in Norman so he didn't just become a successful QB under Riley whereas Murray flamed out at Texas A&M. Some may say that Sumlin didn't give him a fair shake or use him right but Sumlin did make Manziel into a Heisman Trophy winner before Murray. If that kid wasn't such a jack ass he'd still be playing on Sundays.


Mayfield took snaps from under center in CLE which will be interesting to see if Murray can do as well. I contest that Mayfield was the much more polished QB going into the NFL, he wasn't a one year wonder like Murray was last year.

I also laugh when people say Murray is the next Russell Wilson because they're short and have a baseball background. Wilson also was a very polished QB going into the draft playing in pro-style offenses at both NC State & Wisconsin and like Mayfield not a one year wonder.

At the end of the day there’s only one thing where it’s a direct comparison. Mayfield’s last year at Oklahoma and Murray’s year at Oklahoma. Same coaches, same system, closest personnel surrounding them that two QBs in different seasons can have.

Virtually identical in all stats (games won and lost, completion percentage, TDS, INTs) and only really different in that mayfield threw for 300 more yards on the season and Murray ran for 700 more yards and 5 more rushing TDs on the season.

So you can throw out all that other stuff as much as you want. And it’s certainly viable data to take into consideration. But I place the greatest weight on the fact that under the most similar fact sets possible Murray compares favorably (or even better given his wide margin in rushing) to a qb who, by all accounts, had a really successful start to his nfl career. They’ve had the most similar launching pads into the nfl possible imo.

 

[GatorAZ]

Yes Murray was in a very fortunate situation. He knew the system before he stepped in and had excellent coaching/talent around him. I’d almost feel more comfortable with a stopgap right away but it doesn’t work like that anymore and Hundley is no starter.

 

[Krangodnzr]

murray didnt run, he didnt do any drills like if he doesnt need to increase his draft stocks and that is pretty weird cause on paper he is far from being an unanimous first overall pick
or does he know already he will be the first pick

From what I've heard, he doesn't want teams focusing on him being a running QB. Wants to be drafted based on his ability to throw the football.

I actually like that.

 

[Cardinal]

You can also argue that Mayfield was successful at Texas Tech before landing in Norman so he didn't just become a successful QB under Riley whereas Murray flamed out at Texas A&M. Some may say that Sumlin didn't give him a fair shake or use him right but Sumlin did make Manziel into a Heisman Trophy winner before Murray. If that kid wasn't such a jack ass he'd still be playing on Sundays.

Funny you mention that because the connection between Mayfield at Tech and Manziel at A&M (his heisman season) is Kliff Kingsbury. KK was the OC & QB coach at A&M the year Manziel won the heisman and then was hired at Texas Tech the following season when he started coaching Mayfield. Murray was never coached by KK at A&M.

Sumlin was never a true air-raid coach. He played linebacker at Purdue and then switched to be an offensive coach as a GA. His offenses were more focused on read option type plays. He only transitioned to being an air-raid type coach after having Holgerson and KK as his OCs in Houston.

 

[juza76]

throwing at pro day in a friendly enviroment doesnt give much indication, but i could appreciate the ball placement allowing his receivers to mantain the balance without slowing down