Murray is becoming a choker in big games

Mainstreet

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He is seeing ghosts. He's watching the pass rush instead of looking down field or for a pocket to step up into. Basically I am saying he's playing scared. Film study would help this. IMO

I'd be seeing ghosts too playing behind the Cardinals offensive line. I don't think he trusts it to step up in the pocket and he is vulnerable when he drops deep. Opponents have figured that out.

What I don't understand is why he doesn't have some intermediate pass plays. Those short passes to the flat don't cut it. I think Harry mentioned that Murray should roll out more on pass plays. Until the offensive line improves I think that is what he should do.

It's hard to figure out how much is coaching and how much is on Kyler.
 

GoldGloveschmidt

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Peyton Manning:

23 years old, made the playoffs. 19/42 (45%) 227 yds 0TDs. Loss.

24 years old, made the playoffs. 17/32 (53%) 194 yds 1 TD. Loss.

26 years old, made the playoffs. 14/31 (45%) 137 yds 0 TD 2 INT. Loss. (41-0 shutout against the Jets)

Won his first playoff game at age 27 in his 6th season.

Just some context.
 

cheesebeef

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Peyton Manning:

23 years old, made the playoffs. 19/42 (45%) 227 yds 0TDs. Loss.

24 years old, made the playoffs. 17/32 (53%) 194 yds 1 TD. Loss.

26 years old, made the playoffs. 14/31 (45%) 137 yds 0 TD 2 INT. Loss. (41-0 shutout against the Jets)

Won his first playoff game at age 27 in his 6th season.

Just some context.

just some context... Manning in his second season helped turn the Colts around from 3-13 to 13-3 and established himself as one of the best QBs in the game bar none.

Manning in his third season went 10-6, threw for 4400 yards 33 TDs and 15 INTs.

more context. Manning was an iron man who never missed a game and stood in the pocket and took hits.

Kyler Murray has never hit 4000 yards by his third season. Hasn't had back to back playoff seasons. Hasn't even had back to back winning seasons.

So, there's no comparison between the two guys as far as team or statistical accomplishments in their first three seasons.

But if you want more context, the guy you're throwing up for context to show that Murray's horrific game isn't so bad, Manning was one of the perrenial playoff disappointments throughout his career. He CONSISTENTLY played worse in the playoffs than the regular season, heavily contributing a host of losses at home to lower seeds, while being a 9-TIME loser of his first playoff game in 16 years.

Outside of winning his title in 2006, he consistently choked in the biggest games until his almost lifeless corpse of a body was carried to the title by his defense and running game in his final season.

While Peyton set the world on fire in the regular season repeatedly, he is one of the last people I want to see Kyler emulate in the playoffs where the pressure was almost always too much for him to handle.
 

GoldGloveschmidt

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just some context... Manning in his second season helped turn the Colts around from 3-13 to 13-3 and established himself as one of the best QBs in the game bar none.

Manning in his third season went 10-6, threw for 4400 yards 33 TDs and 15 INTs.

more context. Manning was an iron man who never missed a game and stood in the pocket and took hits.

Kyler Murray has never hit 4000 yards by his third season. Hasn't had back to back playoff seasons. Hasn't even had back to back winning seasons.

So, there's no comparison between the two guys as far as team or statistical accomplishments in their first three seasons.

But if you want more context, the guy you're throwing up for context to show that Murray's horrific game isn't so bad, Manning was one of the perrenial playoff disappointments throughout his career. He CONSISTENTLY played worse in the playoffs than the regular season, heavily contributing a host of losses at home to lower seeds, while being a 9-TIME loser of his first playoff game in 16 years.

Outside of winning his title in 2006, he consistently choked in the biggest games until his almost lifeless corpse of a body was carried to the title by his defense and running game in his final season.

While Peyton set the world on fire in the regular season repeatedly, he is one of the last people I want to see Kyler emulate in the playoffs where the pressure was almost always too much for him to handle.
Kyler took the franchise from 3 wins to 11, threw for 3,971 yards (sorry he didn't make your arbitrary 4k mark that means nothing, not to mention ran for 800 and 11 TDs last season along with the 3971 yards). So, there are easy comparisons between their early seasons, unless you will never be happy unless you have some sort of unicorn QB who doesn't exist outside of Tom Brady. Good luck with that. Brett Favre threw 6 picks in his playoff debut. But if cheesebeef isn't happy with Kyler being on a comparable trajectory to some hall of famers then I guess it doesn't matter.
 
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AZCB34

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just some context... Manning in his second season helped turn the Colts around from 3-13 to 13-3 and established himself as one of the best QBs in the game bar none.

Manning in his third season went 10-6, threw for 4400 yards 33 TDs and 15 INTs.

more context. Manning was an iron man who never missed a game and stood in the pocket and took hits.

Kyler Murray has never hit 4000 yards by his third season. Hasn't had back to back playoff seasons. Hasn't even had back to back winning seasons.

So, there's no comparison between the two guys as far as team or statistical accomplishments in their first three seasons.

But if you want more context, the guy you're throwing up for context to show that Murray's horrific game isn't so bad, Manning was one of the perrenial playoff disappointments throughout his career. He CONSISTENTLY played worse in the playoffs than the regular season, heavily contributing a host of losses at home to lower seeds, while being a 9-TIME loser of his first playoff game in 16 years.

Outside of winning his title in 2006, he consistently choked in the biggest games until his almost lifeless corpse of a body was carried to the title by his defense and running game in his final season.

While Peyton set the world on fire in the regular season repeatedly, he is one of the last people I want to see Kyler emulate in the playoffs where the pressure was almost always too much for him to handle.
Peyton watched a crap ton of film
 

Cardsfaninlouky

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just some context... Manning in his second season helped turn the Colts around from 3-13 to 13-3 and established himself as one of the best QBs in the game bar none.

Manning in his third season went 10-6, threw for 4400 yards 33 TDs and 15 INTs.

more context. Manning was an iron man who never missed a game and stood in the pocket and took hits.

Kyler Murray has never hit 4000 yards by his third season. Hasn't had back to back playoff seasons. Hasn't even had back to back winning seasons.

So, there's no comparison between the two guys as far as team or statistical accomplishments in their first three seasons.

But if you want more context, the guy you're throwing up for context to show that Murray's horrific game isn't so bad, Manning was one of the perrenial playoff disappointments throughout his career. He CONSISTENTLY played worse in the playoffs than the regular season, heavily contributing a host of losses at home to lower seeds, while being a 9-TIME loser of his first playoff game in 16 years.

Outside of winning his title in 2006, he consistently choked in the biggest games until his almost lifeless corpse of a body was carried to the title by his defense and running game in his final season.

While Peyton set the world on fire in the regular season repeatedly, he is one of the last people I want to see Kyler emulate in the playoffs where the pressure was almost always too much for him to handle.
Manning could also see over the OL lol, Kyler cannot & that'll be something we'll be dealing with his whole time in Arizona. RW developed that moon ball pass downfield which helps him overcome the height disadvantage.
 

GatorAZ

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Manning could also see over the OL lol, Kyler cannot & that'll be something we'll be dealing with his whole time in Arizona. RW developed that moon ball pass downfield which helps him overcome the height disadvantage.

The only thing Kyler has in common with Russ and Brees is height. Both those guys are tough as nails and the alpha of alphas.
 

Cardsfaninlouky

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The only thing Kyler has in common with Russ and Brees is height. Both those guys are tough as nails and the alpha of alphas.
Yes, that's what I was comparing about Kyler to RW, his height. Just saying that RW developed that moon ball pass because of his height. Now that you mention Brees, he was about 2-3" taller than Russ & Kyler but he would step up in the pocket & tip toe to see over the OL, something Kyler hasn't learned how to do yet.
 

SissyBoyFloyd

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Fraud, Choker, ........ Come on guys. Are you talking about the same guy who marched us down the field in the last minute against the best team in the league, the Packers. The guy who read the D perfectly and threw a perfect pass to the mentally challenged A J Green, that guy is a choker and fraud? The guy whose OL totally lets him down some games. The guy whose WRs regularly drop the dimes he drops to them game after game. The guy who runs for as many yards each season as our top RBs. That little guy who is at such a disadvantage, and continues to take a beating most games while still getting up and finding a way to get us back into most games that we have been so behind in through the first half. The guy who wins us games in spite of the bad play calling and game planning by his coach.

Are we really talking about the same guy?
 

SissyBoyFloyd

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Another thought: I was wondering if just maybe some of the players, especially Murray, lost faith in KK during the 2nd half of the season. Maybe his play calling sort of burnt out Murray and began to disillusion others. Do any of you think any of our players felt, without saying it, that they were just getting out coached week after week?
 
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GatorAZ

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Fraud, Choker, ........ Come on guys. Are you talking about the same guy who marched us down the field in the last minute against the best team in the league, the Packers. The guy who read the D perfectly and threw a perfect pass to the mentally challenged A J Green, that guy is a choker and fraud? The guy whose OL totally lets him down some games. The guy whose WRs regularly drop the dimes he drops to them game after game. The guy who runs for as many yards each season as our top RBs. That little guy who is at such a disadvantage, and continues to take a beating most games while still getting up and finding a way to get us back into most games that we have been so behind in through the first half. The guy who wins us games in spite of the bad play calling and game planning by his coach.

Are we really talking about the same guy?

Yes that one.
 

Stout

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Yup. MVP first half of the season. Now, toast. Lol. Give this man a half functional org and this is all moot. IMO. No, I'm not absolving Kyler here. He's plenty to blame for that **** show. Just saying, we know what potential looks like with him and we should all pump the brakes a bit.
You know, I'm going to back off on the "But he was an MVP candidate early in the season" thoughts myself. One, because it's absolutely meaningless, and two, because his early season play is, to me, clearly indicative that he can only excel when everything is perfect around him. Given a clean pocket, 100 percent healthy WRs, and all the time in the world, sure, KM can be really good. Throw the smallest bit of adversity at him and he melts like a Hershey bar in a s'more.
 

Stout

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Kyler took the franchise from 3 wins to 11, threw for 3,971 yards (sorry he didn't make your arbitrary 4k mark that means nothing, not to mention ran for 800 and 11 TDs last season along with the 3971 yards). So, there are easy comparisons between their early seasons, unless you will never be happy unless you have some sort of unicorn QB who doesn't exist outside of Tom Brady. Good luck with that. Brett Favre threw 6 picks in his playoff debut. But if cheesebeef isn't happy with Kyler being on a comparable trajectory to some hall of famers then I guess it doesn't matter.
Trying to defend KM after that epic crapfest? Good luck with that.
 

wagonmound464

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Another thought: I was wondering if just maybe some of the players, especially Murray, lost faith in KK during the 2nd half of the season. Maybe his play calling sort of burnt out Murray and began to disillusion others.

Do any of you think any of our players felt, without saying it, that they were just getting out coached week after week?
I see Kliffy's play calling dismal at best,,,shows no emotion on sideline, and sure isn't a Pete Carroll type who inspires his team players. Watching goldfish in a tank is more exciting than Kliff's blank face and his questionable play calling. Murray, while
a great athlete, looks too short to make quick decisions on pass plays.
 
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