Murray’s Performance

[Solar7]

Now you are just pulling crap out of your butt.

I cant think of ONE poster who even remotely, seriously said playoffs. Not one.

I said in reach of the playoffs. Maybe not a serious contender, but not spit-out-your-drink-laughing at the concept before we'd even gotten through October. Improvement and an increase in wins was mentioned.

https://www.arizonasportsfans.com/forum/threads/cardinals-record-prediction-for-2019.318700/

I think there's another thread but I can't find it right now. Plenty of people with us at 6-10, 8-8, winning records, etc.

I never said anyone was saying playoffs. But not a "in December we'll have a tie over last year."

 

[Solar7]

For the record and for whatever it's worth, I was and remain luke-warm at best about both Kliff and Kyler... Actually, I'm a bit more optimistic about Murray than I am of Kingsbury. I think Kyler has the mental and physical attributes needed to be successful. I don't know what that "success" will look like, but whereas pre-season I had serious doubts about Murray having a long-term career in the NFL, I can now say that I am pleasantly surprised and can see him being more successful than not over a long career.
I passionately believe Keim's time has come and gone. He needs to go. Like now. And I remain luke-warm at best about Kliff. I just don't get good vibes from his "too cool for school," Lulu Lemon wearing vibes... a guy who doesn't seem to have a grasp on the entire - just the offense.

Cool, you and I are on the same page. I'm just more willing to discuss it, I suppose.

 

[Minski]

Solar, serious question... who do you actually like on this team?

 

[Solar7]

Solar, serious question... who do you actually like on this team?

On this current roster? Like, think they're good in the present/will be good in the future? Or do you mean as a whole, where obvious players like Fitz/PP21/David Johnson have contributed to our success in the past and deserve to be liked?

Love but might not be part of the future:
Larry Fitzgerald
Patrick Peterson
David Johnson

Stone-Cold locks that I really like and I think are a part of our present/future as true stars:
Chandler Jones
Christian Kirk
Jordan Hicks

Good starters/players I like and will potentially be stars/above average players into the future:
Byron Murphy
Kyler Murray

Guys I like but have probably shown what they're going to be:
DJ Humphries
Justin Pugh
Corey Peters
Robert Alford

Guys I have nothing against and are fine but could be upgraded:
JR Sweezy
Budda Baker
Thompson Twins

I think I might be missing some but the rest I don't care for.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I said in reach of the playoffs. Maybe not a serious contender, but not spit-out-your-drink-laughing at the concept before we'd even gotten through October. Improvement and an increase in wins was mentioned.

https://www.arizonasportsfans.com/forum/threads/cardinals-record-prediction-for-2019.318700/

I think there's another thread but I can't find it right now. Plenty of people with us at 6-10, 8-8, winning records, etc.

I never said anyone was saying playoffs. But not a "in December we'll have a tie over last year."

So you admit you pulled that comment out your butt?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

For me an average game for any QB would be 200+ yds passing, 1-2 TD passes and at most 1 INT and a completion rate of 55% or better. Anything under these numbers is below average to bad.

You don't always need these numbers if you are running well against the Giants for example.

Mistake free football should be expectation number 1 for all QBs. Something that Murray has done well all year bar this game.

 

[Solar7]

So you admit you pulled that comment out your butt?

You're inventing a comment I made. Go back and read my post. I didn't say anyone said we were going to the playoffs.

 

[HoodieBets]

You don't always need these numbers if you are running well against the Giants for example.

Mistake free football should be expectation number 1 for all QBs. Something that Murray has done well all year bar this game.

No getting into the end zone should be the #1 expectation. I can deal with an INT a game if you throw for 3. I’d rather have a risk taker than a dink and dunk machine.


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[Jetstream Green]

Well, I've had this argument all year long with people. It's nothing new. I'm not sure you were one of the people I discussed this with all offseason.

I fully understand that it's almost impossible for rookies to come in and have an immediate impact on wins, but again, I had to fight this fight with people. I didn't feel that KM was a surefire bet to be an improvement, and that there were upcoming QBs I felt much more excited about. KM has been pretty good, undoubtedly! Do I believe he's the surefire answer to our problems yet? No, and yesterday's an example of why.

I felt we made some wild choices in the offseason - choices Keim made to try to desperately save his job, instead of good football moves - and they might not develop into a winning strategy. Murray is going to continue to be questioned and picked over until he starts to pair yardage with wins and leadership.

As it stands now, we're 4 games from the end of the season, and this choice is going to cost a lot of people their jobs, and require us to find someone who believes in Kliff and Kyler moving into the future. It's hard for me to be optimistic.

You are never optimistic but always paranoid conservative, get over yourself lol

 

[Solar7]

You are never optimistic but always paranoid conservative, get over yourself lol

I've been optimistic my entire Cardinals fandom until this year. Not my fault you have a short memory.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I've been optimistic my entire Cardinals fandom until this year. Not my fault you have a short memory.

Then you are blind. The Dave Mac era was absolutely embarrassing. There was nothing exciting about those teams. Not a shred of hope.

 

[Solar7]

Then you are blind. The Dave Mac era was absolutely embarrassing. There was nothing exciting about those teams. Not a shred of hope.

I was a teenager with the mindset that you could win football games off of sheer gumption and good feelings - just like being on a team in high school that sucked and got beaten up. I wasn't looking at it from an objective lens with any foresight. You're 6 years older than me, you went through that team in your 20s. Besides, at the time, I'd never tasted any more success than the Cards just barely going 9-7 and winning a single playoff game.

Years of garbage football have taught me lessons about what good coaching and good talent looks like. This team doesn't have either right now, just the same hope and a prayer that era had.

 

[Dan H]

Surely someone can fix this, right?

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[Chopper0080]

You don't always need these numbers if you are running well against the Giants for example.

Mistake free football should be expectation number 1 for all QBs. Something that Murray has done well all year bar this game.

Alex Smith and Andy Dalton...gross.

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[GatorAZ]

There are times he looks like a gimmick player and there’s times he looks special. These things take years to figure out.

 

[Cheesebeef]

There are times he looks like a gimmick player and there’s times he looks special. These things take years to figure out.

this is fair.

 

[Cheesebeef]

So you admit you pulled that comment out your butt?

did you actually read that thread that Solar pulled up? You said you couldn't think of ONE poster who said playoffs. Well, first, Solar very specifically said "within reach of the playoffs", so to start, you shifted the goalposts of his argument. Second, there were numerous people calling for 9-7 and 10-6 and 10 who called for 8-8 or better, all of which is within reach of the playoffs in almost any season. A simple scroll through the thread showing what our record would be showed at least 10 people thinking we'd be in reach of being in the playoffs.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

I don't understand a lot of this. Murray and the offensive side of the ball gets a pass because their stuff had moved the ball in the past? I mean, that defense is still good, but this was an offense that couldn't do anything for an entire game.

The sad thing is that we didn't really learn anything new here. The offense needs a playmaker on the outside who can defeat 1:1 matchups. The defense can't stop literally anyone. It's going to be amazing watching highlight reels of TEs this season and seeing that Hasson Reddick is trailing 1.5 yards behind the guy scoring the touchdown in like 80% of them.

To my understanding, that is the only snap Reddick took all game long. Trailing a TE for a TD once again. Walker took his place in the lineup. They mentioned using Reddick as a DE as a possibility moving forward?

 

[Krangodnzr]

I was a teenager with the mindset that you could win football games off of sheer gumption and good feelings - just like being on a team in high school that sucked and got beaten up. I wasn't looking at it from an objective lens with any foresight. You're 6 years older than me, you went through that team in your 20s. Besides, at the time, I'd never tasted any more success than the Cards just barely going 9-7 and winning a single playoff game.

Years of garbage football have taught me lessons about what good coaching and good talent looks like. This team doesn't have either right now, just the same hope and a prayer that era had.

Statistically, this offense is light years better than last year. Even analytics experts are calling the turn around remarkable.

We've already gone over this before, but Kliff is doing the job he was asked to do, fix the offense. The problems on offense are now mostly talent issues, not scheme or QB issues.

This team can literally be fixed in one off season. One good offseason.

Bring in a good defensive coordinator and 5 good players and 6 average players and the Cardinals could be a good young team.

But Keim isnt the guy. His formula for success has never been sustainable.

 

[Krangodnzr]

did you actually read that thread that Solar pulled up? You said you couldn't think of ONE poster who said playoffs. Well, first, Solar very specifically said "within reach of the playoffs", so to start, you shifted the goalposts of his argument. Second, there were numerous people calling for 9-7 and 10-6 and 10 who called for 8-8 or better, all of which is within reach of the playoffs in almost any season. A simple scroll through the thread showing what our record would be showed at least 10 people thinking we'd be in reach of being in the playoffs.

Going back and reading, there were a few....numerous? Websters Dictionary defines as "great in number"...that's a stretch. And most of those weren't really all that serious.

I said 6-10 with a 2 game +/-. Looks like I will be correct.

 

[Solar7]

Statistically, this offense is light years better than last year. Even analytics experts are calling the turn around remarkable.

We've already gone over this before, but Kliff is doing the job he was asked to do, fix the offense. The problems on offense are now mostly talent issues, not scheme or QB issues.

This team can literally be fixed in one off season. One good offseason.

Bring in a good defensive coordinator and 5 good players and 6 average players and the Cardinals could be a good young team.

But Keim isnt the guy. His formula for success has never been sustainable.

Yeah, "statistically" it's better. It went from awful to middle of the pack. But it's still not doing what offenses need to do to win games: generate points.

If Kliff was only asked to "fix the offense" and not "win games," this organization is stupid.

I'd love to see your roadmap for fixing this team in one offseason. You realize you just said we only need to bring in 11 players, right? That's half the starters on a football team. We only have 34 players under contract for next year. That's 19 guys alone we have to find just to fill out a roster, so our cap space isn't as large as you think. Group that in with positions where we simply don't even have a STARTER under contract on the roster (LT, RT, OC, DE x2, OLB, ILB, maybe even WR), which is 7-8 players, and getting your 11 guys is going to be really freaking tough.

Going back and reading, there were a few....numerous? Websters Dictionary defines as "great in number"...that's a stretch. And most of those weren't really all that serious.

I said 6-10 with a 2 game +/-. Looks like I will be correct.

You asked me to point out anyone. And it was numerous. Also, really easy to say you're right when you give yourself a five point spread to say "look how on the nose I was" when you only have up to 16 choices.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Alex Smith and Andy Dalton...gross.

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Cool, because that was the point I was trying to make...also, apt comparison to KM.

 

[HoodieBets]

Cool, because that was the point I was trying to make...also, apt comparison to KM.

If kyler doesn’t move the ball downfield more and continues with the dink and dunk Alex Smith will be a very apt comparison.


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[CardsSunsDbacks]

If kyler doesn’t move the ball downfield more and continues with the dink and dunk Alex Smith will be a very apt comparison.


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Kyler is like top 3 in the league in deep passing yards. Which is crazy because he could absolutely go down the field more, but that stat would clearly separate him from a guy like Smith.

 

[HoodieBets]

Kyler is like top 3 in the league in deep passing yards. Which is crazy because he could absolutely go down the field more, but that stat would clearly separate him from a guy like Smith.

That is crazy since Kyler is only at 238 yards per game. More than Smith when he was in SF but right on par from when Smith was with KC. Also their completion percentage is almost identical as well.


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