Muffin's Top 21 - A "Needed" Revision 3

[RugbyMuffin]

This is what happens when you put your organization in a place where they "need" a player for a certain position. If you are a poster here at ASFN, and do not think the Cardinals have set themselves to be picking for need at OT, go to this old post for my top 21 http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb...other-players-of-interest-rev-2-a-177324.html.

If you think this team has put itself in a position of need at OT in this year's draft, keep reading.


Note #1: Forget trading down. If we are drafting for need, worst case scenario has us reaching for a player regardless, why trade down and risk that player being picked. The Cardinals have already broken the first rule of
putting your organization in a position to need come draft time (See: Levi Brown & Adrian Peterson), please lets not break another rule, and trade down when a player of need is sitting there for us (See Terrell Suggs &
Calvin Pace/Skillet Johnson). A trade down should not happen, it cannot happen.

Note #2: Some things trump needs. Miracles trump needs, and if either of the top 2 QB's end up at #13, well, I would hope we would pick one of them.


TOP 21:

1. Andrew Luck - QB
- Obvious.


2. Robert Griffin III - QB
- Obvious.


3. Matt Kalil - OT
- Noted as the best LT in the draft. At this point, the Cardinals should inquire about trading up with the Vikings, Browns or Bucs to get Kalil. There draft is pretty torn up between the trade for Blok, and now being in a position of need. If you are going to screw up a draft for a need pick in the first round, then at least get they guy that you want.


4. Riley Reiff - OT
- The Cardinals need a OT. Reiff would be a good value at #13, and big time luck. Reiff moves from 6. to 4. on the top 21


5. Cordy Glenn - OT
- The more and more I watch Glenn the more I like this pick at #13 Atheletiscim at the OT position seems to be what works in the NFL. The guy has the tools, IMO. At worst? He becomes a OG. In my Rev. 2 I wanted to trade down in order to get Glenn. Now with the current situation, if Glenn is there at #13, and Kalil, and Reiff are off the board, I hope the Cardinals take him. The need is there, and justifies what might be considered a reach. I don't think Glenn will be a #13 type talent, but I don't think he would be a complete bust either. There must be a reason he played OG in college, and not OT. Glenn moves from 11. to 5. on the Top 21 EDIT: Sorry for the confusion in bold, see below.


6. Jonathan Martin - OT
- Watch the film, look at his frame, realize the team he was on. Seems to be a guy who is riding the success of his team, more than his individual skill set. Scary thing is, now the Cardinals are in the position that, worst case scenario, Kalil, Reiff, and Glenn are gone. The Cardinals need a LT. Can they risk waiting until the 3rd round ? I don't think do. Martin goes from 21. to 6. on the Top 21


7. Mike Adams - OT
- Levi Brown/Leonard Davis part III. My goodness, the best thing I can say about this situation, is that if we got to #13, and Mike Adams was the top OT at this point ? There may be a player so good still available that the Cardilnas won't reach any further. Desparation makes the Cardinals pick Adams who, IMO, will be a complete bust as a LT. Adams goes from not being considered, to 7. on the Top 21.


8. Bobbie Massie - OT
- Originally a 2nd rounder, but may be the only player that would justify the reach in getting him. I have seen him go in the 1st round in a few mocks. Same for all the OT's listed above him. Players like Zebrie Sanders,
Jeff Allen, and Mitchell Scwartz are only players that are in Massie's range, but I have not seen them listed in the 1st round in any mock, or breakdowns. Massie is the biggest reach I think the Cardinals will make at the #13 spot. Massie goes from being a 2nd round prospect to 8. on the top 21.


9. Morris Claiborne - CB
- Just a dream. A sweet dream. Peterson, Toler, and Claiborne. Sure. Pass on this secondary. I dare you.


10. David DeCastro - OG
- Would give our O-Line a leader, top flight guard for the next 10 years. When he gets older, put him at center. If he is there at 13. He is the pick over anyone other then the four players listed above.


11. Justin Blackmon - WR
- Big Body WR. Pick a OL in the 2nd round. Obviously he would have to free fall to his position.


12. Michael Floyd - WR
- Big Body WR.


13. Steven Hill - WR
- Big Body WR, with speed. Boom or bust pick


14. Dre Kirkpatrick - CB
- Again. This is a CB that would be ideal to be our #2 CB with Peterson.


15. Dont'a Hightower - ILB
- Played his college ball in a 3-4 defense. Not only can he play the middle but he can play OLB. Runs a 4.6, 260lbs, and a few years in a NFL weight room is going to make him a great, yes great, NFL player for year to come, IMO.


16. Stephen Gilmore - CB
- Big for a CB, but has all the tools. Like Fitzpatrick.


17. Mark Barron - S
- We are going to need a safety in the very near future. Barron can step right in as our 3rd safety.


18. Nick Perry - OLB
- I hate picking a college DE, and then expecting him to transition to a OLB. I hate it. Barely ever works. Yet, Perry is a phenom as a pass rusher, worth the risk.


19. Melvin Ingram – DE/OLB
- Again, not a fan of the transition DE. Better prospect, IMO, then Coples


20. Courtney Upshaw - OLB
- The guy has played OLB in a 3-4 defense in college. Solid player, at a position of need that can play well against the run, and a decent pass rusher.


21. Luke Keuchly - ILB
- I am hot and cold on this guy. Just don't see him in our 3-4 system. Would have to be a WILB, IMO. Not as versitile as Hightower.


OUT:
Ryan Tannehill - QB <-- No. Double Deuce all the way.
Trent Richardson - RB <-- The days of 1st round RB are over. Rather have Wells.
Quinton Coples - DE <-- If we take a transition guy give me Perry, or Ingram.



LATE ROUND PLAYERS OF INTEREST:
Jayron Hosley, CB (2) <-- Came to AZ for visit.
Mitchell Schwartz, OT (2-3)
Brian Quick, WR (2-3)
Harrison Smith, S (2-3)
Trumaine Johnson, CB/S (2-3)
Phillip Blake, OG/OC (2-3)
Kelechi Osemele, OG/OT (2-3)
Amini Silatolu, OG/OT (2-3)
Ronnell Lewis, DE/OLB (2-3)
Jonathan Massaquoi, DE/OLB (2-3)
George Iloka, S (2-3) <-- Came to AZ for visit.
Tommy Streeter,WR (2-4)
Juron Criner, WR (2-4) <-- Came to AZ for visit.
Derek Wolfe, DE (2-4)
Brandon Tayler, S (3-4) <-- Came to AZ for visit.
Trenton Robinson, S (3-4)
T.Y. Hilton, WR (3-4)
Tony Bergstrom, OT (3-4)
Bruce Irvin, DE/OLB (3-5)
Chase Minifield, CB (3-5)
Senio Kelemete, OG (3-5)
Brandon Mosley, OT (3-5)
Nate Potter, OT (4)
AJ Jenkins, WR (4-5)
Ryan Lindley, QB (4-5)
Tavon Wilson, CB/S (4-6) <-- Came to AZ for visit.
Justin Bethel, CB (4-6)
Greg Childs, WR (4-6)
Omar Bolden, CB/S (4-6) <-- Came to AZ for visit.
Levy Adcock, OT (4-7)
Al Netter, OT (4-7)
Travis Benjaminm, WR (5-6)
Steven Good, OG (5-6)
Adrien Cole, ILB (5-7)
Mike Ryan, OT (5-7)
Hebron Fangupo, DT (5-7)
Brett Roy, DT/DE (5-7)
Chris Galippo, ILB (5-7)
Ryan Davis, DE/OLB (5-7) <-- Came to AZ for visit.
Joe Long, OT (6)
Art Forst, OG (6-7)
Derek Dennis, OG (6-7)
Darius Flemming, OLB (6-7)
DJ Holt, ILB (6-7)
Najae Goode, ILB (6-7)
Tank Carder, WILB (6-7)
Ronnie Cameron, DT (6-UDFA) <-- Came to AZ for visit.
Ron Brooks, CB (7-UDFA)
Dennis Kelly, OT <-- Came to AZ for visit.
Matt Conrath, DT/DE (7-UDFA) <-- Came to AZ for visit.
Josh Oglesby, OT (7-UDFA)
Demario Fletcher, WR (UDFA) <--- All talent, no brain.


Out:
Winston Guy, S <-- Not as big or fast as advertised
Bobby Wagner, ILB <-- Too small for ILB in 3-4.
Brandon Washington, G <-- Better prospects at the position at his projected round
Jaques Smith, OLB <-- Nope.
Nick Toon, WR <-- Flounder. Not letting him in because he is a legacy. Better prospects available.
Ryan Broyles, WR <-- Better prospects available.
Kelvin Beachum, OG <-- I'd take Art Forst over him.
James Rodgers, WR <--- 5'7" WR coming off a knee injury. Nope.
Shea McClellin, DE/OLB <-- Value has sky rocketted to 2nd rnd. No way. Take R. Lewis who is a better prospect. If he drops, he is a possibility.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

This post reminds me of the old "Choose your own adventure" books I used to read as a kid. If I click on the link at the top of the page does my space craft crash into a planet of man eating plants?

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

I am all over T.Y. Hilton, I want that guy on this team...

 

[Duckjake]

Forget trading down. If we are drafting for need, worst case scenario has us reaching for a player regardless, why trade down and risk that player being picked. The Cardinals have already broken the first rule of
putting your organization in a position to need come draft time (See: Levi Brown & Adrian Peterson), please lets not break another rule, and trade down when a player of need is sitting there for us (See Terrell Suggs &
Calvin Pace/Skillet Johnson). A trade down should not happen, it cannot happen.

I'm of the opposite opinion. The Cards should trade out of the first round every year. We have what? One really great first round pick on our roster who has played for the Cards for more than one season? Meanwhile we have had many talented or long term players out of the later rounds. The year of Pace and Bjohnson we got Anquan Boldin in 2 and Gerald Hayes in 3 (8 years with AZ) and Reggie Wells in 6 (Also 8 years in the AZ).

Trade out Ken!

 

[52brandon]

This post reminds me of the old "Choose your own adventure" books I used to read as a kid. If I click on the link at the top of the page does my space craft crash into a planet of man eating plants?

lmao. If you want to cut through the spooky woods, turn to page 98

 

[52brandon]

I'm of the opposite opinion. The Cards should trade out of the first round every year. We have what? One really great first round pick on our roster who has played for the Cards for more than one season? Meanwhile we have had many talented or long term players out of the later rounds. The year of Pace and Bjohnson we got Anquan Boldin in 2 and Gerald Hayes in 3 (8 years with AZ) and Reggie Wells in 6 (Also 8 years in the AZ).

Trade out Ken!

hey man, we're on a 1-year hot streak with our 1st round picks

Peterson was insane on ST last year, catching on to the NFL well at CB, and I love his attitude and work ethic

 

[WildBB]

Note #1: Forget trading down. If we are drafting for need, worst case scenario has us reaching for a player regardless, why trade down and risk that player being picked. The Cardinals have already broken the first rule of
putting your organization in a position to need come draft time (See: Levi Brown & Adrian Peterson), please lets not break another rule, and trade down when a player of need is sitting there for us (See Terrell Suggs &
Calvin Pace/Skillet Johnson). A trade down should not happen, it cannot happen.



5. Cordy Glenn - OT
- The more and more I watch Glenn the more I like this pick at #13Atheletiscim at the OT position seems to be what works in the NFL. The guy has the tools, IMO. At worst? He becomes a OG. In my Rev. 2 I wanted to trade down in order to get Glenn. Now with the current situation, if Glenn is there at #13, and Kalil, and Reiff are off the board, I hope the Cardinals take him. The need is there, and justifies what might be considered a reach. I don't think Glenn will be a #13 type talent, but I don't think he would be a complete bust either. There must be a reason he played OG in college, and not OT. Glenn moves from 11. to 5. on the Top 21

Disagree on the trading down part. Depends on who you'd be happy getting.
I'd be happy getting Barron, Mercilus, Glenn, Gilmore, Wright/Hill or Upshaw in a trade down. All could be very good assets to this team. Most of them project right at/near top 15 draftee's with many scouts. They aren't reaches.
Then also targeting another position with a higher pick than #80. That means preferably getting a late 2nd early 3rd round pick (60-70), where you can better get that GOOD prospect you'd like to have at the #80. Then when #80 rolls around you pick the guy who shouldn't have fallen that far. Hopefully that leads to three starters down the road right there. But at least two very good ones.

The thing with Glenn is, he'd probably be good at RT, but he's never played there. So I'd prefer him with a later pick. Not so much of a gamble. Worst case with him you could eventually start him at G.

 

[Duckjake]

hey man, we're on a 1-year hot streak with our 1st round picks

Peterson was insane on ST last year, catching on to the NFL well at CB, and I love his attitude and work ethic

I know but I didn't want to jinx him.

 

[52brandon]

I know but I didn't want to jinx him.

lol, I forgot you're superstitious like that

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Disagree on the trading down part. Depends on who you'd be happy getting.
I'd be happy getting Barron, Mercilus, Glenn, Gilmore, Wright/Hill or Upshaw in a trade down. All could be very good assets to this team. Most of them project right at/near top 15 draftee's with many scouts. They aren't reaches.
Then also targeting another position with a higher pick than #80. That means preferably getting a late 2nd early 3rd round pick (60-70), where you can better get that GOOD prospect you'd like to have at the #80. Then when #80 rolls around you pick the guy who shouldn't have fallen that far. Hopefully that leads to three starters down the road right there. But at least two very good ones.

The thing with Glenn is, he'd probably be good at RT, but he's never played there. So I'd prefer him with a later pick. Not so much of a gamble. Worst case with him you could eventually start him at G.

The problem I have with trading down is that you put yourself in an even worse place.

Personally, I think the best OT that will be available at #13 will be Cordy Glenn, and as you said, he is a big risk of a pick. But, the reality is, the Cardinals are screwed. They need an OT, and cannot pass it up any longer, so they would have to take that risk, IMO.

Yes, they could trade down. But at what cost. What if Cordy Glenn, and Jonathan Martin are taken in that time ?

Now you are down to Mike Adams, and Bobby Massie, both 2nd round talent. So, you gain very little from trading down. You reach at #13 or you reach at #21.

The draft is a harsh mistress when you set yourself up for need.

Thus why I say, trade up for Kalil. You are already screwing the draft by needing a position. So, if it is so needed a position, then get the best available.

You could use 2 or 3 picks looking for an OT anyway. Consolidate the three picks, and just go get Kalil.

 

[Duckjake]

The problem I have with trading down is that you put yourself in an even worse place.

Personally, I think the best OT that will be available at #13 will be Cordy Glenn, and as you said, he is a big risk of a pick. But, the reality is, the Cardinals are screwed. They need an OT, and cannot pass it up any longer, so they would have to take that risk, IMO.

Yes, they could trade down. But at what cost. What if Cordy Glenn, and Jonathan Martin are taken in that time ?

Now you are down to Mike Adams, and Bobby Massie, both 2nd round talent. So, you gain very little from trading down. You reach at #13 or you reach at #21.

The draft is a harsh mistress when you set yourself up for need.

Thus why I say, trade up for Kalil. You are already screwing the draft by needing a position. So, if it is so needed a position, then get the best available.

You could use 2 or 3 picks looking for an OT anyway. Consolidate the three picks, and just go get Kalil.

I see what you are saying but if I'm making the decision I look at the roster and see Brandon Keith has been playing RT and I'm thinking a 2nd or 3rd round Tackle is a huge improvement. Add in still getting a player like Stephon Gilmore or Donte Hightower and it looks real good to me.

 

[Chopper0080]

It is always interesting to me to see how different people view the first round of the draft. Some say need, some say best player at a position of need, and some just say best player.

Where I believe most teams fail in the draft is their perception of the first round. Most teams view it as drafting a player to fill a hole, and trying to find the best player to do so. Or, they view it as the round to take a great impact player, and spend time trying to project players into roles they have never played in. I have always thought the first round was where you built the foundation of your team which, in my opinion, consists of QBs, OL, pass rushers and CBs/DBs. Using this idea, it boggles my mind that teams can't determine 1 player in the top 32 of the draft that fits their scheme, and fills this criteria, and if they can't, trade out of the first round and acquire a future number 1. It is really that simple to me. At #13 I am looking at Luck, RGIII, Ryan Tannahill, Matt Kalil, Cordy Glenn, David DeCastro, Peter Konz, Melvin Ingram, Morris Claiborne, Stephon Gilmore, Mark Barron or trade out. I would much rather draft Bobbie Massie and get a future #1 than draft a guy like Riley Reiff who doesn't project well in our system.

It is hard to go with hard/fast rules such as this because potential exceptions do arise, but really, what good is drafting a WR like Michael Floyd if you either don't have the QB to get him the ball or don't have the offensive line to allow the QB to do so? What is good is stopping the run if you are allowing oppossing QBs to convert 3rd and longs because you can't pressure the QB, or don't have secondary players to challenge pass catchers? Makes me wonder.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

5. Cordy Glenn - OT
- The more and more I watch Glenn the more I like this pick at #13Atheletiscim at the OT position seems to be what works in the NFL. The guy has the tools, IMO. At worst? He becomes a OG. In my Rev. 2 I wanted to trade down in order to get Glenn. Now with the current situation, if Glenn is there at #13, and Kalil, and Reiff are off the board, I hope the Cardinals take him. The need is there, and justifies what might be considered a reach. I don't think Glenn will be a #13 type talent, but I don't think he would be a complete bust either. There must be a reason he played OG in college, and not OT. Glenn moves from 11. to 5. on the Top 21

----------

The more you watch? Glenn was first team all SEC at left tackle!

BIM: Athleticism.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

BIM: Athleticism.

Bastard of a word!

Correct.

2011 he was left tackle

2010 he was left guard.

My bad, that is some poor typing and grammar.

To clarify, Glenn played LG in college, and his last year in college he played LT, yet in most scouting reports they have him as a NFL OG.

Most of the tape I have seen he is at LG, btw, but that is no excuse for confusing posts with poor grammar.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Bastard of a word!

Correct.

2011 he was left tackle

2010 he was left guard.

My bad, that is some poor typing and grammar.

To clarify, Glenn played LG in college, and his last year in college he played LT, yet in most scouting reports they have him as a NFL OG.

Most of the tape I have seen he is at LG, btw, but that is no excuse for confusing posts with poor grammar.

Thanks for the clarification.

Evidently, he's versatile enough to play R-tackle

Thought: It's pronounced: Ath - lete - not: Ath - ah - lete

 

[kerouac9]

It is always interesting to me to see how different people view the first round of the draft. Some say need, some say best player at a position of need, and some just say best player.

Where I believe most teams fail in the draft is their perception of the first round. Most teams view it as drafting a player to fill a hole, and trying to find the best player to do so. Or, they view it as the round to take a great impact player, and spend time trying to project players into roles they have never played in. I have always thought the first round was where you built the foundation of your team which, in my opinion, consists of QBs, OL, pass rushers and CBs/DBs. Using this idea, it boggles my mind that teams can't determine 1 player in the top 32 of the draft that fits their scheme, and fills this criteria, and if they can't, trade out of the first round and acquire a future number 1. It is really that simple to me. At #13 I am looking at Luck, RGIII, Ryan Tannahill, Matt Kalil, Cordy Glenn, David DeCastro, Peter Konz, Melvin Ingram, Morris Claiborne, Stephon Gilmore, Mark Barron or trade out. I would much rather draft Bobbie Massie and get a future #1 than draft a guy like Riley Reiff who doesn't project well in our system.

It is hard to go with hard/fast rules such as this because potential exceptions do arise, but really, what good is drafting a WR like Michael Floyd if you either don't have the QB to get him the ball or don't have the offensive line to allow the QB to do so? What is good is stopping the run if you are allowing oppossing QBs to convert 3rd and longs because you can't pressure the QB, or don't have secondary players to challenge pass catchers? Makes me wonder.

I don't think it's as cut and dried as that. I think if you're bad enough to be picking in the Top 5, you're looking for the cornerstone of your franchise; a guy you can build around for the next decade. Hard to say you can do that with a LT or a CB--as good and valueable as those guys are. I'm not sure I could pull the trigger on a Top 5 pick that isn't a QB or pass rusher.

From picks 6-15 I think you're looking for Franchise Players. These are guys that you're willing to pay Top 5 salaries to when they become available and are happy with the value. They sell jerseys and bring fans to games, as well as are capable of deciding games.

Picks 16-25 you're able to choose boom-or-bust players or fill roster holes. You're either in the playoffs or you're on the cusp of doing so. But when you make the playoffs, your roster starts suffering from the Disease of More. Your options are to help fill your greatest need(s) with the top pick, or take a guy like Aqib Talib or Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie who can either become one of the best players at their position, or disappear down the rabbit hole faster than you can say "Michael Stone."

25-32 you're looking for value picks. Guys you've rated highly that fall to you because they're a low-profile position (Dan Williams or Beanie Wells), or because it's basically a high second-round pick and most of your guys are coming back so you can snag a development player that isn't going to be there when you come back around. If you believe in your scouting staff like the Pats do, you trade out altogether, see if you can get a second or even first round pick out of the deal, and get the guy you were going to take anyway that no one else knew about.

 

[Duckjake]

I don't think it's as cut and dried as that. I think if you're bad enough to be picking in the Top 5, you're looking for the cornerstone of your franchise; a guy you can build around for the next decade. Hard to say you can do that with a LT or a CB--as good and valueable as those guys are. I'm not sure I could pull the trigger on a Top 5 pick that isn't a QB or pass rusher.

We got a CB top 5 last year who without we would have finished 5-11 or 6-10. Of course that might have been better long term for the franchise and maybe they wouldn't be thinking they're sitting on an 11-5 SB contender roster like they seem to be right now.

 

[kerouac9]

We got a CB top 5 last year who without we would have finished 5-11 or 6-10. Of course that might have been better long term for the franchise and maybe they wouldn't be thinking they're sitting on an 11-5 SB contender roster like they seem to be right now.

Yeah... and we got Larry Fitzgerald Top 3 and he's the best WR in the game. The Lions got Megatron Top 3 and he's the second-best. Problem is, Megatron watched his team draft #1 overall again two years later, and #3 overall a year after that. Fitz has had more sub-.500 seasons as a pro than seasons with 8 wins or better.

The issue is when there isn't a franchise-defining player at an impact position in the Top 5 of the draft. The other issue is that you have to find one of those franchise-definers in the middle of the round, picks 8-20 every five or six years. Pittsburgh managed to with Polamalu and with Roethlisberger. Indy wasn't able to after Freeney, and that's why they're in the position to draft Andrew Luck.

The good thing about the NFL versus the NBA is that the Cards can continue to end up in the middle of the league (I think that 10 wins is our absolute ceiling in 2012) and still improve the team. The Suns could be the 8 seed in the playoffs, or just miss them, and they'll be destined to be just as crappy next year.

 

[Duckjake]

Yeah... and we got Larry Fitzgerald Top 3 and he's the best WR in the game. The Lions got Megatron Top 3 and he's the second-best. Problem is, Megatron watched his team draft #1 overall again two years later, and #3 overall a year after that. Fitz has had more sub-.500 seasons as a pro than seasons with 8 wins or better.

The issue is when there isn't a franchise-defining player at an impact position in the Top 5 of the draft. The other issue is that you have to find one of those franchise-definers in the middle of the round, picks 8-20 every five or six years. Pittsburgh managed to with Polamalu and with Roethlisberger. Indy wasn't able to after Freeney, and that's why they're in the position to draft Andrew Luck.

The good thing about the NFL versus the NBA is that the Cards can continue to end up in the middle of the league (I think that 10 wins is our absolute ceiling in 2012) and still improve the team. The Suns could be the 8 seed in the playoffs, or just miss them, and they'll be destined to be just as crappy next year.

Bad example. Thanks to that draft pick we almost won a SB, won an NFC Championship, and two NFC West titles. And even when we suck he makes the games worth watching. I'm more into drafting playmakers in round one and getting the grunts you can't win without in the rest of the draft.

 

[WildBB]

I don't think it's as cut and dried as that. I think if you're bad enough to be picking in the Top 5, you're looking for the cornerstone of your franchise; a guy you can build around for the next decade. Hard to say you can do that with a LT or a CB--as good and valueable as those guys are. I'm not sure I could pull the trigger on a Top 5 pick that isn't a QB or pass rusher.

From picks 6-15 I think you're looking for Franchise Players. These are guys that you're willing to pay Top 5 salaries to when they become available and are happy with the value. They sell jerseys and bring fans to games, as well as are capable of deciding games.

Picks 16-25 you're able to choose boom-or-bust players or fill roster holes. You're either in the playoffs or you're on the cusp of doing so. But when you make the playoffs, your roster starts suffering from the Disease of More. Your options are to help fill your greatest need(s) with the top pick, or take a guy like Aqib Talib or Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie who can either become one of the best players at their position, or disappear down the rabbit hole faster than you can say "Michael Stone."

25-32 you're looking for value picks. Guys you've rated highly that fall to you because they're a low-profile position (Dan Williams or Beanie Wells), or because it's basically a high second-round pick and most of your guys are coming back so you can snag a development player that isn't going to be there when you come back around. If you believe in your scouting staff like the Pats do, you trade out altogether, see if you can get a second or even first round pick out of the deal, and get the guy you were going to take anyway that no one else knew about.

I think there are gems throughout. It becomes less likely as you progress, but they're out there. Legit cornerstone guys, picked in late 1st, 2nd, 3rd.....
You just have to uncover the right combination of factors and let them flourish. Guys we've uncovered over the yrs. - Aneas Williams (3rd), Dansby (2nd) Wilson (3rd) Acho (4th) Campbell (2nd) DWash (2nd) Darnell (3rd). They're out there.

Broyles is beconing in the 3-4th this yr!

 

[slanidrac16]

Do you take the 3rd best OT or do you take the best WR, or ILB , or OLB, or safety?

Taking the BPA is never the wrong thing to do unless it's overkill at a position you are loaded with. Then you take the SECOND best player left on the board or trade down.

We've been watching the Patriots do this year in and year out. That being said you've got to know what the hell you are doing.

There are dozens of scenarios, but if the Cards could trade down a couple of times and ended up with LB Mychal Kendricks, OT Bobby Massie and DE Whitney Mercilus would you be happy?

The problem is you have to have the balls enough to pass on some highly "ranked" players to make it work.

 

[kerouac9]

Do you take the 3rd best OT or do you take the best WR, or ILB , or OLB, or safety?

Taking the BPA is never the wrong thing to do unless it's overkill at a position you are loaded with. Then you take the SECOND best player left on the board or trade down.

We've been watching the Patriots do this year in and year out. That being said you've got to know what the hell you are doing.

There are dozens of scenarios, but if the Cards could trade down a couple of times and ended up with LB Mychal Kendricks, OT Bobby Massie and DE Whitney Mercilus would you be happy?

The problem is you have to have the balls enough to pass on some highly "ranked" players to make it work.

Instead of a first-round pick like Marcus Ingram or Cordy Glenn? No, I wouldn't be happy. I'd be pissed. This is the definition of trading a dollar for three quarters.

We had a Top 10 defense over the last half of the season. Adding two depth players isn't going to make any difference.

We had a crappy offense last year that was unable to protect the quarterback much of the time. Adding a lazy project like Massie isn't going to make a difference, especially when we'd be depending on him to start.

 

[Jetstream Green]

This post reminds me of the old "Choose your own adventure" books I used to read as a kid. If I click on the link at the top of the page does my space craft crash into a planet of man eating plants?

Luv it!

 

[TigToad]

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This post reminds me of the old "Choose your own adventure" books I used to read as a kid. If I click on the link at the top of the page does my space craft crash into a planet of man eating plants?

 

[RugbyMuffin]

We had a crappy offense last year that was unable to protect the quarterback much of the time. Adding a lazy project like Massie isn't going to make a difference, especially when we'd be depending on him to start.

+1

Thus why if the Cardinals do any trading, I hope it is up to get Kalil.

Cause I agree, that if the Cardinals have a need, I would rather them risk reaching at #13 then chance it and trade down.

We NEED an OT.