Mike Budenholzer - Officially Suns new Head Coach

clyde2tw

All Star
Joined
Jan 27, 2023
Posts
601
Reaction score
601
Location
abroad
I believe having Young as the associated head coach was part of the reason that caused the failure. I never understood why a reknowned defensive coach Vogel failed to install proper defense all season long.
 

1982baskets

Veteran
Joined
Nov 18, 2023
Posts
126
Reaction score
146
Location
Arizona
I believe having Young as the associated head coach was part of the reason that caused the failure. I never understood why a reknowned defensive coach Vogel failed to install proper defense all season long.
Talent. The team was something like 13 in the NBA on defense. In contrast the talent the team had, was more like bottom 10 on defense. Beal may have been able to play a defensive role but was injured all year and off a flow. The expectation of the team was that they would be top 3-5 on offense and about 20 on defense, such that they would be so good on offense that it would overcome the defensive weaknesses.

When you look at the team he had coached to a NBA title, they had defensive players like Anthony Davis, Danny Green, Dwight Howard. And so on. Vastly different team than these Suns.

Budenholzer should get more offense out of this group as his offense schemes are well established in the league in Atlanta and Milwaukee. We should be better on offense. I also think we'll move Nurk. I can't see a 5 out offense with Nurk. In Milwaukee, Brook Lopez shoots a lot of three pointers. There will be some changes for sure.

However I do think considering the injury to Beal, and the holes on the team, 49 wins was not a bad result. The team he inherited was a 45 win team and then we messed up the balance of the roster with the Beal trade. No point guard on offense or defense.

I don't think Bud would have done better than 49 wins, but lets see. Maybe he will inherit a much better Beal, and situation. I doubt we run it back with the same core.
 

Hoop Head

ASFN Icon
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Posts
16,546
Reaction score
11,637
Location
Tempe, AZ
Budenholzer should get more offense out of this group as his offense schemes are well established in the league in Atlanta and Milwaukee. We should be better on offense. I also think we'll move Nurk. I can't see a 5 out offense with Nurk. In Milwaukee, Brook Lopez shoots a lot of three pointers. There will be some changes for sure

Brook Lopez attempted less than 40 3's in his first 8 seasons combined. He didn't shoot until the league started changing and injuries forced him to change his game.

Nurkic isn't as efficient as Lopez but his last year in Portland was the only time he averaged more than 2 attempts from 3 a game and shot 36%. That's better than Lopez since he started shooting 3's 8 years ago. He only averaged half the attempts last year as his role was staying by the basket and 24% from 3 won't cut it but he has good mechanics and isn't afraid to fire. He's not ideal but the same could be said of Lopez before leaving Brooklyn.
 

Suns_fan69

Official ASFN Lurker
Joined
Oct 2, 2002
Posts
3,544
Reaction score
1,849
Location
Vancouver, BC, Canada
He only averaged half the attempts last year as his role was staying by the basket and 24% from 3 won't cut it but he has good mechanics and isn't afraid to fire. He's not ideal but the same could be said of Lopez before leaving Brooklyn.
Nurkic was firing away a lot more earlier in the year. He had 90 attempts on the season and 84 were pre all-star break.

Not sure if that was him thinking he had to cut down or Frank/Kevin young asking him to stop. I'm guessing the latter.

 

Hoop Head

ASFN Icon
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Posts
16,546
Reaction score
11,637
Location
Tempe, AZ
Nurkic was firing away a lot more earlier in the year. He had 90 attempts on the season and 84 were pre all-star break.

Not sure if that was him thinking he had to cut down or Frank/Kevin young asking him to stop. I'm guessing the latter.


Looks like he stopped in 2024. Beal missed virtually all of 2023. Booker missed a chunk of time early as well. As we got healthy Nurk shot less. He seemed to shoot consistently though each month, right around 25%. Not that that's a good percentage but he didn't shoot a lot. Slightly more than 1 attempt a game.
 

clyde2tw

All Star
Joined
Jan 27, 2023
Posts
601
Reaction score
601
Location
abroad
When you have big-3 like that, the main worry shall remain to establish strong enough defense at least the level of final 4 teams in this year's POs, in order to stay in the game. It starts from the weakest link that's Booker.
 

Phrazbit

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 10, 2011
Posts
19,961
Reaction score
10,865
When you have big-3 like that, the main worry shall remain to establish strong enough defense at least the level of final 4 teams in this year's POs, in order to stay in the game. It starts from the weakest link that's Booker.

I disagree entirely.

For one, Beal isn't part of a big 'anything' at this stage of his career, and he's never been a defender.

Secondly, Booker, while not being a defensive stalwart by any sense of the imagination, was better than pretty much any guard we featured other than Okogie. Beal, Gordon and Allen are all terrible defenders.
 

leclerc

The smooth operator
Joined
Jun 28, 2008
Posts
2,316
Reaction score
922
Location
Norway
What we need is a big three that will play big in important games, and a bunch of athletic bigs like they have on the Mavs and the pups. Draft or sign two athletic bigs (that coach will play) James Jones, I dare you. Also, I heard rumours (probably from flex) that we need a PG.
 

Yuma

Suns are my Kryptonite!
Joined
Jan 3, 2003
Posts
21,377
Reaction score
10,884
Location
Laveen, AZ
Talent. The team was something like 13 in the NBA on defense. In contrast the talent the team had, was more like bottom 10 on defense. Beal may have been able to play a defensive role but was injured all year and off a flow. The expectation of the team
You must be registered for see images attach
was that they would be top 3-5 on offense and about 20 on defense, such that they would be so good on offense that it would overcome the defensive weaknesses.

When you look at the team he had coached to a NBA title, they had defensive players like Anthony Davis, Danny Green, Dwight Howard. And so on. Vastly different team than these Suns.

Budenholzer should get more offense out of this group as his offense schemes are well established in the league in Atlanta and Milwaukee. We should be better on offense. I also think we'll move Nurk. I can't see a 5 out offense with Nurk. In Milwaukee, Brook Lopez shoots a lot of three pointers. There will be some changes for sure.

However I do think considering the injury to Beal, and the holes on the team, 49 wins was not a bad result. The team he inherited was a 45 win team and then we messed up the balance of the roster with the Beal trade. No point guard on offense or defense.

I don't think Bud would have done better than 49 wins, but lets see. Maybe he will inherit a much better Beal, and situation. I doubt we run it back with the same core.
Looking at our division we were just two games behind the Clippers, who won the division with 51 games. Almost won 60% of our games, at .598. I think it was a bad season based upon expectations.
 

Hoop Head

ASFN Icon
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Posts
16,546
Reaction score
11,637
Location
Tempe, AZ
Looking at our division we were just two games behind the Clippers, who won the division with 51 games. Almost won 60% of our games, at .598. I think it was a bad season based upon expectations.

Only upon expectations? It was a bad season based on results. The regular season was a wash. All the talk all season was about getting healthy for the playoffs, which we were, and how our big 3 would overwhelm other teams and be unstoppable offensively. We got beat by a good defensive team and didn't look competitive in the first 3 games. It was a bad season based on results. For a veteran team with virtually no flexibility we don't have time of the ability to celebrate a 6th seed and being a few games from a division title. Other than Booker, virtually everyone else is on the downside of their career and will be the same or worse than they were this past season.
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
113,943
Reaction score
53,621
Only upon expectations? It was a bad season based on results. The regular season was a wash. All the talk all season was about getting healthy for the playoffs, which we were, and how our big 3 would overwhelm other teams and be unstoppable offensively. We got beat by a good defensive team and didn't look competitive in the first 3 games. It was a bad season based on results. For a veteran team with virtually no flexibility we don't have time of the ability to celebrate a 6th seed and being a few games from a division title. Other than Booker, virtually everyone else is on the downside of their career and will be the same or worse than they were this past season.

Yeah, the Suns need at least two or three consistent rotation players to be a legitimate contender.

The areas of need are point guard, power forward and center. They need not be starters. Too often, the media likes to talk about something that is likely unobtainable this off season, a starting point guard.
 

Raindog

I didn't come here to be liked!
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Posts
5,100
Reaction score
6,110
Looking at our division we were just two games behind the Clippers, who won the division with 51 games. Almost won 60% of our games, at .598. I think it was a bad season based upon expectations.
A better showing in the post-season than the "what time is the first flight to Cancun?" way they played against Minnesota, and I might be inclined to agree with you.
 

Hoop Head

ASFN Icon
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Posts
16,546
Reaction score
11,637
Location
Tempe, AZ
Yeah, the Suns need at least two or three consistent rotation players to be a legitimate contender.

The areas of need are point guard, power forward and center. They need not be starters. Too often, the media likes to talk about something that is likely unobtainable this off season, a starting point guard.

Yeah we need probably 4 guys who can play consistently, no less than 3. We need quality depth in the frontcourt and a good backup PG that can run the second unit.

We also need to re-sign Royce O'Neale. He gives up depth but doesn't really check any boxes in terms of type of player we need. He's a SF, which is fine but Durant doesn't want to be a PF and he's not a PG either. Royce can guard 1-4 but he's not a good rebounder. I think he fits better as a regular starter than Grayson but ultimately I'd prefer both come off the bench.

If we could somehow add a starting PF, backup C, and backup PG I'd be ecstatic but I don't see how that happens given the lack of assets we have. It sucks because we haven't been this strapped for assets or talent in a decade or more, maybe ever. We've lacked talent like the post Nash years but had plenty of cap space, tradable contracts, draft picks, and youth. We had pieces that could have fit also but weren't retained for questionable reasons. You add Torrey Craig, Toumani Camera, Dario Saric, and Cam Payne as a bench and it doesn't look as hopeless. It's not perfect but it's a foundation to build on. Then maybe Eric Gordon stays, who was our only bench scorer, Okogie and Bol² could be developed more as end of the bench guys rather than thrust into meaningful minutes when they aren't ready.
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
113,943
Reaction score
53,621
Yeah we need probably 4 guys who can play consistently, no less than 3. We need quality depth in the frontcourt and a good backup PG that can run the second unit.

We also need to re-sign Royce O'Neale. He gives up depth but doesn't really check any boxes in terms of type of player we need. He's a SF, which is fine but Durant doesn't want to be a PF and he's not a PG either. Royce can guard 1-4 but he's not a good rebounder. I think he fits better as a regular starter than Grayson but ultimately I'd prefer both come off the bench.

If we could somehow add a starting PF, backup C, and backup PG I'd be ecstatic but I don't see how that happens given the lack of assets we have. It sucks because we haven't been this strapped for assets or talent in a decade or more, maybe ever. We've lacked talent like the post Nash years but had plenty of cap space, tradable contracts, draft picks, and youth. We had pieces that could have fit also but weren't retained for questionable reasons. You add Torrey Craig, Toumani Camera, Dario Saric, and Cam Payne as a bench and it doesn't look as hopeless. It's not perfect but it's a foundation to build on. Then maybe Eric Gordon stays, who was our only bench scorer, Okogie and Bol² could be developed more as end of the bench guys rather than thrust into meaningful minutes when they aren't ready.

The way the NBA has improved, it kind of sounds like flying on a wing and a prayer, unless Matt Tellem is a genius.
 

CardNots

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Sep 12, 2002
Posts
4,150
Reaction score
3,869
Location
Jenks, Oklahoma
Only upon expectations? It was a bad season based on results. The regular season was a wash. All the talk all season was about getting healthy for the playoffs, which we were, and how our big 3 would overwhelm other teams and be unstoppable offensively. We got beat by a good defensive team and didn't look competitive in the first 3 games. It was a bad season based on results. For a veteran team with virtually no flexibility we don't have time of the ability to celebrate a 6th seed and being a few games from a division title. Other than Booker, virtually everyone else is on the downside of their career and will be the same or worse than they were this past season.
but KD had one of his better statistical seasons, right?
 

Yuma

Suns are my Kryptonite!
Joined
Jan 3, 2003
Posts
21,377
Reaction score
10,884
Location
Laveen, AZ
Good for him but it didn't lead to a single post season win.
True, but it takes the whole team. On paper we have some talented guys. Best three point shooter, Two time Finals MVP, a ton of NBA all star selections in total, etc. What the hell went wrong all season? The narrative is it takes guys time to jell doesn't hold water when you see guys who are thrown together to play in the Olympics have way less doesn't time together, but kick a$$ when they play. The only obvious move is coaching. If the change this season doesn't net a better play off run, then the next step may be blowing it up.
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
113,943
Reaction score
53,621
Well it’s certainly not his fault.

He carried this team most of the year.

A lot of failure points on this team but he wasn’t one of those.

It's not Durant's fault nor Beal, but it's hard to go shopping without some change in your pocket.
 

Yuma

Suns are my Kryptonite!
Joined
Jan 3, 2003
Posts
21,377
Reaction score
10,884
Location
Laveen, AZ
It's not Durant's fault nor Beal, but it's hard to go shopping without some change in your pocket.
I am guessing the coaching change signals a run it back one more time scenario. If it doesn't work this season, I feel KD may be the trade piece. We are stuck with Beal, and Booker isn't going anywhere. KD would be the odd man out.
 

CardNots

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Sep 12, 2002
Posts
4,150
Reaction score
3,869
Location
Jenks, Oklahoma
I am guessing the coaching change signals a run it back one more time scenario. If it doesn't work this season, I feel KD may be the trade piece. We are stuck with Beal, and Booker isn't going anywhere. KD would be the odd man out.
They will have the same issues unless have bench player contributions.

Hopefully the coach can improve bench utilization.
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
113,943
Reaction score
53,621
I am guessing the coaching change signals a run it back one more time scenario. If it doesn't work this season, I feel KD may be the trade piece. We are stuck with Beal, and Booker isn't going anywhere. KD would be the odd man out.

Wait. I think many on the forum wanted to trade for Durant. Now we trade him after giving up all those assets to the Nets?
 
Top