McNabb told to have season-ending surgery

Shane

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JasonKGME said:
Overrated Giants team??? A team that is 6-3, has the most prolific Offense so far this season, has a fairly decent defense, was AT HOME ON 9/11 in NY!!!

Lost to the Rams in a heartbreaker, due to some bad officiating (IMHO). They barely outgained us on the ground by 22 yards, we blew them up thru the air outgaining them by 111 yards, and could have won at the very end if we had any clock management at all.

Lost to Seattle a team that is 7-2, who is also on a tear making a run for the superbowl.

Also we had the following losses to injuries due/by these games:

LB Gerald Hayes allready out for season (allthough didn't know at the time)
C. Alex Stepanovich out for game 1 vs NYG
FB James Hodgins lost for the season during game 1 vs NYG, out vs Rams & Seattle and remainder of season
LB James Darling out for 2nd half vs NYG

LB Gerald Hayes out for game vs Rams
LB James Darling out for game vs Rams
FB James Hodgins out for game vs Rams
RB JJ Arrington out for game vs Rams

LB Gerald Hayes out for game vs Seattle
LB James Darling out for game vs Seattle
FB James Hodgins out for game vs Seattle
QB Kurt Warner lost for 2nd half vs Seattle
DT Russell Davis lost for year during game vs Seattle
CB Antrell Rolle lost for year (probably) during game vs Seattle
OT Oliver ROss lost for several games during game vs Seattle


So to say we didnt have injuries before these three games is plain nonsense.

That same Giants team that lost AT HOME to a bad Minnesota Vikings team? They may be 6-3 but they are still OVERRATED. Also like I said we didnt just get beat we got whooped and our collective butts handed to us. The injuries you are listing for that game are minimal and are no excuse for losing. Especially the way we did.

Pick your excuse Jason officaitaing/injuries what is it? This team should not have lost at home to the Rams PERIOD. That is a very short list of minimal injuries yet again. Certainly not enough to make an excuse for losing at home.

The Injury report at the beginning of the game in Seattle was agian minimal. Yea we lost some players during but once again not an excuse. yea we lost Warner. Big Deal. The only QB that has won games with this team that I recall this year is McCown. That is with many of the injuries that we presently have as well. We again got whooped in a way that no team should on the road or not. Thats two out of three games being trounced and losing another home game that in no way we should have lost.

Saying that our season is the way it is because of injuries is purely comical. Saying without a doubt that it would be better if those injuries didnt occur is even more comical based on those 3 games.
 
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Russ Smith

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michigancardsfan said:
I wanna see how Mike McMahon does, he was one of the guys that I thought Arizona should of looked at, this kid has great ability just needs time to develope but with the oline we got here he would probly work pretty well.

but he could also at the same time be a choke but Im kind of intrested on what he does.

I just don't get the fascination with this guy? He's a safety playing QB, yeah he has a strong arm but he no idea at all where the throw is going. Whenever he's got any extended PT he's been below 50% with a lot of sacks. He's the classic guy who can run but doesn't understand that in the NFL EVERYONE can run, so he holds the ball too long, tries to outrun sacks, he is sort of like Josh in that regard.

I agree McNabb was hurting the Eagles by playing but I'd be really surprised if McMahon can run that offense. Remember the Eagles throw a lot more than they run he's going to have to drop back and throw the ball which is something he's never been effective at doing.
 

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dreamcastrocks said:
Agreed, it is acceptable for McNabb to shut it down to not risk further injury, but when it is said that Boldin shouldn't rush back, it is somehow blasphemous

I haven't heard much of that at all.
 

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Shane H said:
This team got BLEW OUT to an overrated Giants team game one, got beat AT HOME to a weak Rams team weak 2, went onto get our collective azzes handed to us week 3 in Seattle. This team was relatively healthy at that point of the season. For you to say this team would be doing any better had the injuries not occured is pure wirshful thinking at its highest level.

Ian injuries are a reality in the NFL it is NOT AN EXCUSE for losing.

absolutely Shane!
 

RugbyMuffin

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nidan said:
I still don't understand ?

You are saying that poor personnel decisions and injuries are why the Eagles won't be at the big game ?

So, it's ok to talk about injuries for other teams but not us ?


Giggle.....so you think that the Cardinals are just as good as the Eagles right now?

Are you saying the only reason the Cardinals are losing is because of injury and with a healthy team we would be as good as the Eagles ?

NO. No that is not having a double standard because you are comparing a mustang to a pinto.

The Eagles have a lot of injuries, and there has been some bad moves but they are still a competitive team. They have had closer games, and they look good out on the field. There last loss was by a point, and the game was exciting.

It is MUCH different than the clown circus we have going on currently. Right now we look awful. Our games are close only we the opposing team stops trying.

I see a huge difference between the 2. Plus when you have won your division, and been successful in the playoffs for the last 5 season you earn a little more respect, and compassion then when your team has been in the gutter for a decade and are the laughing stock of the league.

I think many on this board forget that the Cardinals have a, well deserved, bad reputation in this league of being a pathetic organization. No one is going to have sympathy or believe that the reason we are losing is by way of injuries, etc., etc.

This almost goes back to the "Bidwill is cheap" thread.

2 seasons do not make up for 20.
 

nidan

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Shane H said:
This team got BLEW OUT to an overrated Giants team game one, got beat AT HOME to a weak Rams team weak 2, went onto get our collective azzes handed to us week 3 in Seattle. This team was relatively healthy at that point of the season. For you to say this team would be doing any better had the injuries not occured is pure wirshful thinking at its highest level.

Ian injuries are a reality in the NFL it is NOT AN EXCUSE for losing.

I'm sorry but the Giants are hardly overratted right now and the Rams game came down to the last play in the game. Regardless nowhere have I said they are good team or even good before the injuries so get off my back a little.

My point was simply that it appears that for other teams it is acceptable to suggest that their record is worse than it would have been had they not had injuries. But not here, say that and you get jumped on.

In most cities a caoch gets more than 1.5 season before benig tarred and feathered but not here. Here DG is an ego maniac that only hires his good buddies regardless of ability.

Why is that ?

For the record, I have not said we would be a good team but fore injuries. Actaully I think we would probably have been around 7-9 without some luck, that isn't good but it is better.
 

nidan

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I'm starting to get marginally irritated by being misquoted here so lets set the record straight

RugbyMuffin said:
Giggle.....so you think that the Cardinals are just as good as the Eagles right now?

I glad I could provide amusment to you, show me where I said that ?

RugbyMuffin said:
Are you saying the only reason the Cardinals are losing is because of injury and with a healthy team we would be as good as the Eagles ?

Again show me where I said the only reason where are losing is due to injuries or that we would be as good as the Eagles.

RugbyMuffin said:
The Eagles have a lot of injuries, and there has been some bad moves but they are still a competitive team. They have had closer games, and they look good out on the field. There last loss was by a point, and the game was exciting.

It is MUCH different than the clown circus we have going on currently. Right now we look awful. Our games are close only we the opposing team stops trying.

Once again I made NO COMPARISONS BETWEEN THE CARDINALS AND THE EAGLEs.

Except to ask why is it ok to talk about their meltdown by injuries and unfortunate personnel choices, while for us we tar and feather the coach.

RugbyMuffin said:
I see a huge difference between the 2. Plus when you have won your division, and been successful in the playoffs for the last 5 season you earn a little more respect, and compassion then when your team has been in the gutter for a decade and are the laughing stock of the league.

I think many on this board forget that the Cardinals have a, well deserved, bad reputation in this league of being a pathetic organization. No one is going to have sympathy or believe that the reason we are losing is by way of injuries, etc., etc.

I see a huge difference as well but unlike you I see the Cardinals trying to turn things around.

RugbyMuffin said:
This almost goes back to the "Bidwill is cheap" thread.

I'll treat that comment with the contempt it deserves

RugbyMuffin said:
2 seasons do not make up for 20.

No they don't but it does show that on many fronts the Cardinals are trying to move into the 21st century of the NFL and operate like other teams do.

Lastly, if you are going to be insulting at least be insulting about things I have said not things you made up in your own dieseased mind.

The comments of mine you find some very amusing are of your own invention !!!
 

Russ Smith

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nidan said:
My point was simply that it appears that for other teams it is acceptable to suggest that their record is worse than it would have been had they not had injuries. But not here, say that and you get jumped on.

In most cities a caoch gets more than 1.5 season before benig tarred and feathered but not here. Here DG is an ego maniac that only hires his good buddies regardless of ability.

Why is that ?



Ask yourself this question, if Green resigned at the end of the year in frustration, and his whole staff was let go, how much interest do you think there'd be in hiring Solomon, Hargrave and Lindsay? I think Clancy would get work, I think Rowen would get work(maybe not as OC), but I don't think the first 3 would get work in the NFL again unless Green took another coaching job.


That's why Green gets accused of that, at the time we hired Green there were rumors out that other teams interviewing him were telling him he could NOT hire Hargrave or Solomon. I don't think that's a normal situation where teams are interviewing a guy to be their head coach and feel compelled to tell him who he can NOT hire as assistants.
 

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Shane H said:
That same Giants team that lost AT HOME to a bad Minnesota Vikings team? They may be 6-3 but they are still OVERRATED. Also like I said we didnt just get beat we got whooped and our collective butts handed to us. The injuries you are listing for that game are minimal and are no excuse for losing. Especially the way we did.

Pick your excuse Jason officaitaing/injuries what is it? This team should not have lost at home to the Rams PERIOD. That is a very short list of minimal injuries yet again. Certainly not enough to make an excuse for losing at home.

The Injury report at the beginning of the game in Seattle was agian minimal. Yea we lost some players during but once again not an excuse. yea we lost Warner. Big Deal. The only QB that has won games with this team that I recall this year is McCown. That is with many of the injuries that we presently have as well. We again got whooped in a way that no team should on the road or not. Thats two out of three games being trounced and losing another home game that in no way we should have lost.

Saying that our season is the way it is because of injuries is purely comical. Saying without a doubt that it would be better if those injuries didnt occur is even more comical based on those 3 games.


I think with the above injuries on game day/during game we still lose to NYG and Seattle, however, give me 2 good LB's and a great hole blowing open FB and the Rams game we might have won, heck 1 more tackle that added 20 seconds to the clock because the Rams didn't get a 1st down earlier in the 4th quarter and we have the time to score and win the game, so that is one game injuries could have effected.

Maybe without all our injuries we beat Carolina.

Maybe without all our injuries we beat Detroit.

thats 3 games, so instead of being 2-7 maybe then we are 5-4 and then we are having a completely different conversation then we are now.


Eveyone wants to compare to the Eagles, they go 4-2 in thier 1st 6 games, lose TO and McNabb's hernia gets much worse and are now 4-5.


Injuries can have a great effect on how you view a team. Lets be honest if this team was 5-4 with the following info:

Blown out @ NYG
Won a close game Vs. St. Louis
Blown out @ Seattle
Killed SF in Mexico
Won a close game Vs. Carolina
Won Vs. Tennessee
Lost @ Dallas
Blown out again Vs. Seattle
Won @ Detroit


We get blown out twice vs Seattle, and NYG, lose @ dallas but win 5 games, you would be telling me about how this team is ready to finally turn the corner, and gain some respectability, that based on where we are that we could beat St. Louis again in St. Louis, play tough vs Jacksonville, kill SF, play tough vs Washington, kill houston and be 8-6 going into our last 2 games....

Unfortunatly we had some killer injuries recently, which can be attributed to some possible losses, if we have the players do we gaurentee a win??? Hell no, there are no gaurentees in the NFL, but I think it does greatly increase our odds to win. the games I listed (St. Louis, Carolina & Detroit)
 
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RugbyMuffin

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nidan said:
No they don't but it does show that on many fronts the Cardinals are trying to move into the 21st century of the NFL and operate like other teams do.

Lastly, if you are going to be insulting at least be insulting about things I have said not things you made up in your own dieseased mind.

The comments of mine you find some very amusing are of your own invention !!!

Yikes ! I wasn't meaning to be insulting. A giggle is not a finger pointing at you laughing. Second, those first to quotes you tore apart were questions, not statements pinning words to you. Giggle and question ?...maybe you just answer the question and say no I am not comparing the two.

Finally why did I compare the two teams? Cause you were calling people out for have a double standard (and I CAN quote you on that). I did not see how the Eagles situation warrants the need to "tar and feather" Ried. Ried has coached his team to great success over the last 5 years. HE PROVED he can run the Eagles. Now a case against Denny can definately be made. He has done nothing with the Cardinals (at least when it comes to production, and W&L) so far. You can make a point to tar and feather him.....eventhough I think he will turn this thing around, personally.

Plus I am completely with you that the Cards are trying to do thing differently and yes, are improving. They are trying to move, and I think have moved into the 21st century. Yes, they are trying. I see that they are trying and understand that. But they haven't accomplished anything.

Again effort, and "We tried our hardest" is not going to get this organization anywhere. HECK, I can try to play NFL football. I will take a million dollar contract and go out on the field and try my best. But I will suck at it real bad.

Results, and production. The Cardinals need to produce something. Just get it done. Hell or highwater. Spend, trade, and get people in here that can do a better job then who is in here currently.

So far the Cardinals have done nothing to warrant any respect from the league, from the fans, and from anywhere. So we should not expect to get respect, or for anyone to look forward towards the positives.

As for not comparing the Eagles to the Cardinals ? Well obviously I missed the point. It sounded like you where making a comparison to me. It sounded like your complaint was that there was a double standard going on.

I do see that you said I have a diseased mind. Which IS an insult. Not gonna argue there, since I probably am a little touched in the head. :D

But I sure as heck wasn't being insulting. I think you might be a little too keyed up.

You defense for this team is commendable, but do not be blind to the fact that they really suck right now. People are not doing their jobs and should be fired, or replaced. Just like in any other job.

Dennis Green, The Bidwills, the players, THEY ALL should be getting a lot of heat from the fans, and the press. They have produced one of the most awful football teams in the league. That is the way it goes. What makes it worse is that they have been doing this for years!

You can hear "We will be better next year" for only so long till you don't believe it anymore.

Yet, in saying that. To think I am not a fan is ridiculous (no saying you or anyone else said anything about it). No matter how P.O.'d I get, or no matter how many reason I can come up with, I still root for this team, and watch every game.

:thumbup:
 
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nidan

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I'm calmed down now so let's call it quits.

Obviously the reason people ar ewilling to give the Eagles organization a break is that they have been reasonably successful over recent years. However, I hear a lot of folks saying that the Eagles are done because of injuries, specificly at the QB position. Even given their performance over the last few years, either injuries are a factor or they are not. If they are a factor in the Eagles record, surely they are a factor in our record ??

What I don't understand is why some folks want to tar and feather Denny so soon. It took a number of years for Holmgren to turn Seattle around as well.

Give it another couple of years and we see no progress then I will in the fire Denny line but not yet.

I can understand why he didn'y take jobs that wouldn't let him pick hos assistants [if that is even true and nobody knows this to be so]. If you don't trust his judgement then why are you talking to him in the first place.
 

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nidan said:
I'm calmed down now so let's call it quits.

Obviously the reason people ar ewilling to give the Eagles organization a break is that they have been reasonably successful over recent years. However, I hear a lot of folks saying that the Eagles are done because of injuries, specificly at the QB position. Even given their performance over the last few years, either injuries are a factor or they are not. If they are a factor in the Eagles record, surely they are a factor in our record ??

What I don't understand is why some folks want to tar and feather Denny so soon. It took a number of years for Holmgren to turn Seattle around as well.

Give it another couple of years and we see no progress then I will in the fire Denny line but not yet.

I can understand why he didn'y take jobs that wouldn't let him pick hos assistants [if that is even true and nobody knows this to be so]. If you don't trust his judgement then why are you talking to him in the first place.

Denny deserves his tar and feathering Ian.

His coaching decisions on the field leave a whole heck of a lot to be desired as well.
 

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nidan said:
You opinion but I don't share it

Do you think Dennis Green has made good in game adjustments?

Do you think twice that we have been at the 35-37 and failing to give Rackers the chance to put points on the board opting to punt instead are sound decisions?

The last two times he has thrown a challenge flag they were clearly not going to be overturned and blatant wastes of timeouts. Do you agree with that?

Him allowing sweeps inside the five yard line to the right side of our line during possible scoring situations? How does he ever let that happen especially to our slowest RB SHipp to our weakest side of the line?

There are many more that I can think of had I had the time. Can you name me so genious coaching moves the guy has made this year?
 

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nidan said:
I can understand why he didn'y take jobs that wouldn't let him pick hos assistants [if that is even true and nobody knows this to be so]. If you don't trust his judgement then why are you talking to him in the first place.

I don't fault him for not taking them either, my point was you made a comment about Green being accused of hiring buddies, and I explained the origin of those comments. I forget the specifics but at the time it was either the Giants or Raiders or Washington who allegedly interviewed Green but specified to him that if he wanted the job he could not hire Solomon or Hargrave. Obviously it's a rumor, and we don't know if it's true, but I don't recall similar rumors for other coaching candidates so you have to wonder?
I think it was Washington but I'm not positive it's been awhile.

When the Raiders hired Turner it was widely reported the reason was Davis didn't trust Green, he thought Green would want more power than Davis would ever relinquish

You'll also note that at the time we tried to hire Salisbury as QB coach it was rumored that the reason Salisbury turned us down is Green hired Solomon. Salisbury knew Solomon from the Vikings and apparently didn't like him. The initial rumor there was I think Peter King but I know that Pro Football Talk took the rumor and ran with it saying Salisbury was all set to accept the job when we announced we'd hired Solomon, and he then called Green and said no thanks. I tend to discount most of what PFT reports but in that case they weren't the first, they just took the initial rumor and "blew it up", which seems to be their MO.

All things considered I thought Solomon did a decent job with teh secondary last year but it appears to have had a lot more to do with the pass rush than his coaching based on what we've seen this year.
 

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Shane H said:
Do you think Dennis Green has made good in game adjustments?

Do you think twice that we have been at the 35-37 and failing to give Rackers the chance to put points on the board opting to punt instead are sound decisions?

The last two times he has thrown a challenge flag they were clearly not going to be overturned and blatant wastes of timeouts. Do you agree with that?

Him allowing sweeps inside the five yard line to the right side of our line during possible scoring situations? How does he ever let that happen especially to our slowest RB SHipp to our weakest side of the line?

There are many more that I can think of had I had the time. Can you name me so genious coaching moves the guy has made this year?

Not resigning.

I am with Nidan. Green is our best hope.

Shane I know you do not like Green.

Who would you replace him with ?

Would you want McGinnis back ?

Do you really think it is the coach, and not the players ?

Just wondering.
:thumbup:
 

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JasonKGME said:
I think with the above injuries on game day/during game we still lose to NYG and Seattle, however, give me 2 good LB's and a great hole blowing open FB and the Rams game we might have won, heck 1 more tackle that added 20 seconds to the clock because the Rams didn't get a 1st down earlier in the 4th quarter and we have the time to score and win the game, so that is one game injuries could have effected.

Maybe without all our injuries we beat Carolina.

Maybe without all our injuries we beat Detroit.

thats 3 games, so instead of being 2-7 maybe then we are 5-4 and then we are having a completely different conversation then we are now.


Eveyone wants to compare to the Eagles, they go 4-2 in thier 1st 6 games, lose TO and McNabb's hernia gets much worse and are now 4-5.


Injuries can have a great effect on how you view a team. Lets be honest if this team was 5-4 with the following info:

Blown out @ NYG
Won a close game Vs. St. Louis
Blown out @ Seattle
Killed SF in Mexico
Won a close game Vs. Carolina
Won Vs. Tennessee
Lost @ Dallas
Blown out again Vs. Seattle
Won @ Detroit


We get blown out twice vs Seattle, and NYG, lose @ dallas but win 5 games, you would be telling me about how this team is ready to finally turn the corner, and gain some respectability, that based on where we are that we could beat St. Louis again in St. Louis, play tough vs Jacksonville, kill SF, play tough vs Washington, kill houston and be 8-6 going into our last 2 games....

Unfortunatly we had some killer injuries recently, which can be attributed to some possible losses, if we have the players do we gaurentee a win??? Hell no, there are no gaurentees in the NFL, but I think it does greatly increase our odds to win. the games I listed (St. Louis, Carolina & Detroit)

Excellently put, also don't forget that we were missing Macklin somewhere in there (SEA game, I believe), lost Redmond for the season, lost Leckey for a good period of time, had already lost KKing for the season, and lost Eric Johnson for the season (I know this one didn't affect anything much though),
 
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