McLaurin To The Cards?

[oaken1]

Absolutely not.

WR1: DeAndre Hopkins (2021), MHJ (2025)
WR2: AJ Green (2021), Michael Wilson (2025)
WR3: Christian Kirk (2021), Greg Dortch/Zay Jones (2025)
RB1: James Conner (Both; 2021 version was 26 years old tho)
RB2: Chase Edmonds (2021), Trey Benson (2025)

The only places where the 2025 offense even competes is TE (Ertz vs McBride), RT (Beachum vs Williams, but I'd argue this is closer than you'd like), and RG (Justin Jones was bad, which is the floor for Christian Jones).

It's difficult to seriously argue that the floor or ceiling of this year's offense is better than the one we had in 2021. That group probably underperformed.

Yeah...that group had Hop and AJ Green,...and still managed to get Kirk a HUUUGE deal....we can compare the 2025 group if MikeWilly hits free agency and gets 5 years for 160mil

 

[football karma]

WR1: DeAndre Hopkins (2021), MHJ (2025)
WR2: AJ Green (2021), Michael Wilson (2025)
WR3: Christian Kirk (2021), Greg Dortch/Zay Jones (2025)

If the step forward expected from MHJ gets him to 2021 DHop --that would exceed expectations

AND assuming that happened, the 2025 WR core would still be far worse than the 2021 one.

 

[BACH]

Absolutely not.

WR1: DeAndre Hopkins (2021), MHJ (2025)
WR2: AJ Green (2021), Michael Wilson (2025)
WR3: Christian Kirk (2021), Greg Dortch/Zay Jones (2025)
RB1: James Conner (Both; 2021 version was 26 years old tho)
RB2: Chase Edmonds (2021), Trey Benson (2025)

The only places where the 2025 offense even competes is TE (Ertz vs McBride), RT (Beachum vs Williams, but I'd argue this is closer than you'd like), and RG (Justin Jones was bad, which is the floor for Christian Jones).

It's difficult to seriously argue that the floor or ceiling of this year's offense is better than the one we had in 2021. That group probably underperformed.

You forgot LT and C starters.
Depth is better.

 

[kerouac9]

You forgot LT and C starters.
Depth is better.

I think that Hudson is obviously better than Froholdt and prime Captain is around as good as third year PJJ coming off an injury.

Don’t think the third guard matter as much as whether you have a potential hall of famer at WR2 compared to Michael Wilson, but do you.

Never back down no matter how half-cocked and -baked your initial assertion was.

 

[Chopper0080]

You forgot LT and C starters.
Depth is better.

At best, the offensive line is a push. Purely from an interior standpoint, Pugh, Hudson, Jones (awful) is better than Brown, Fro, Adams. I would argue that Paris and Jonah are better than The Captain and Beachum, but both are coming off injuries.

 

[kerouac9]

At best, the offensive line is a push. Purely from an interior standpoint, Pugh, Hudson, Jones (awful) is better than Brown, Fro, Adams. I would argue that Paris and Jonah are better than The Captain and Beachum, but both are coming off injuries.

The Captain made the Pro Bowl that year (as an alternate) and was entering his prime. I kind of expect him and Johnson Jr to be a push this year, but I'm prepared to be wrong. Jonah Williams is no-doubt more talented than Beachum.

 

[Chopper0080]

The Captain made the Pro Bowl that year (as an alternate) and was entering his prime. I kind of expect him and Johnson Jr to be a push this year, but I'm prepared to be wrong. Jonah Williams is no-doubt more talented than Beachum.

If Jonah plays a full season, he would outperform Beachum at a greater margin than The Captain will outperform PJJ. that said, I am picking a lot of nits which is why I go back to the lines being a push at best. If the Cardinals sign Will Hernandez, it has a chance to be better IMO. Health will be key as it always is.

 

[Chopper0080]

Basically, if you add McLaurin and Will Hernandez, I think the Cardinals would be close to the 2021 talent level on offense.

 

[cardinals2025]

Absolutely not.

WR1: DeAndre Hopkins (2021), MHJ (2025)
WR2: AJ Green (2021), Michael Wilson (2025)
WR3: Christian Kirk (2021), Greg Dortch/Zay Jones (2025)
RB1: James Conner (Both; 2021 version was 26 years old tho)
RB2: Chase Edmonds (2021), Trey Benson (2025)

The only places where the 2025 offense even competes is TE (Ertz vs McBride), RT (Beachum vs Williams, but I'd argue this is closer than you'd like), and RG (Justin Jones was bad, which is the floor for Christian Jones).

It's difficult to seriously argue that the floor or ceiling of this year's offense is better than the one we had in 2021. That group probably underperformed.

Ok to be honest, I was only factoring in skill players. You could definitely have a point about the offensive line. That said, Kyler got sacked 31 times in only 14 games in 2021, while he got sacked 30 times in 17 games in 2024.

Hopkins and Kirk you win obviously.

Michael Wilson > AJ Green, he was declining. Wilson can be a whole lot more but think of his catch in SEA vs Green losing us the game vs GB when it hit his helmet not turning around.

Plus AJ Green was a literal no show in the playoffs with no Hopkins.

Edmonds I would agree to this point but I think Benson could make that closer.

Trey Mcbride is a top 2 TE and we had no one relavant. That is 110 catches.

I guess you are right especially if you factor in the oline.

But I was also considering that Harrison and Benson would have more productive and consistent 2nd year seasons and that remains to be seen.

Even so, say you are right. It makes me feel more validated to only think we win 10 games and not 11 like in 2021.

To conclude, I think you won this arguement. I didn't think it through as much as you did but that could change depending on Benson/Harrison.

Also, I do still think our defense will be better than 2021, which will give the offense another boost.

It is closer than it seems but I think in retrospect, the 2021 had the edge offensively.

We were never last in 4th quarter scoring with Kliff despite all the other issues.

If only Kingsberry was the offensive coordinator and Gannon was the coach. I trust him over Petzing.

 

[cardinals2025]

Yes if you project deranged expectations on a bunch of people who haven't shown that before it looks as good. But I'm sorry this is crazy talk.

"Deranged expectations" would apply more to players on the oline who haven't shown progress or someone like Xavier Weaver.


Marvin Harrison put on a lot of muscle and I just don't see how he doesn't improve. He matched his dad's stats almost exactly in year 1.

It is about being more consistent more than getting more yards. More touchdowns and less drops. I just don't see how someone of his caliber doesn't improve.

Especially when the defenses this year outside the division we are playing are less elite overall compared to last season.



Benson starting bouncing it outside less and running more downhill as time went on.

The 3 big games we lost in the 2nd half of the season, he deserved more carries. That might have made a difference in SEA when Connor had 8 yards on 7 carries.

From week 8 on he became extremely consistent. He didn't play the last 3 weeks of the season.

Week 1-7: 31 carries, 117 yards = 3.77 ypr 2 catches for 12 yards

Week 9-13: 25 carries 137 yards = 5.48 ypr, 4-4 catches for 47 yards

He only had 10 more snaps than the first period. There is at least minor improvement here.

This is especially significant cuz it was when our oline was playing its weakest.

There is no reason he can't get closer to 500 yards next year if he gets more carries.

Bigger thing is he was a lethal screen back in college. But Petzing hasn't tried it yet!

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[oaken1]

Ok to be honest, I was only factoring in skill players. You could definitely have a point about the offensive line. That said, Kyler got sacked 31 times in only 14 games in 2021, while he got sacked 30 times in 17 games in 2024.

Hopkins and Kirk you win obviously.

Michael Wilson > AJ Green, he was declining. Wilson can be a whole lot more but think of his catch in SEA vs Green losing us the game vs GB when it hit his helmet not turning around.

Plus AJ Green was a literal no show in the playoffs with no Hopkins.

Edmonds I would agree to this point but I think Benson could make that closer.

Trey Mcbride is a top 2 TE and we had no one relavant. That is 110 catches.

I guess you are right especially if you factor in the oline.

But I was also considering that Harrison and Benson would have more productive and consistent 2nd year seasons and that remains to be seen.

Even so, say you are right. It makes me feel more validated to only think we win 10 games and not 11 like in 2021.

To conclude, I think you won this arguement. I didn't think it through as much as you did but that could change depending on Benson/Harrison.

Also, I do still think our defense will be better than 2021, which will give the offense another boost.

It is closer than it seems but I think in retrospect, the 2021 had the edge offensively.

We were never last in 4th quarter scoring with Kliff despite all the other issues.

If only Kingsberry was the offensive coordinator and Gannon was the coach. I trust him over Petzing.

In 2021 kyler had this infuriating habit of spinning one way and running the other. He ran directly into most of those sacks because he always got happy feet in the pocket.
It was our biggest gripe about him at the time....or maybe that was 2020....or both.
He takes less sacks now because Petzing and JG are coaching him to stay in the pocket. It's how the offense runs.
In all honesty kyler is less exciting but a much better QB now than he was then. When he actually goes through all his reads the kid is really good. Hopefully our new defense will keep the pressure off and our young offense linemen take a skill leap in pass pro. Those two things happen and we might actually see kyler finally top 4000 yards passing...even in our run based offense.

 

[oaken1]

"Deranged expectations" would apply more to players on the oline who haven't shown progress or someone like Xavier Weaver.


Marvin Harrison put on a lot of muscle and I just don't see how he doesn't improve. He matched his dad's stats almost exactly in year 1.

It is about being more consistent more than getting more yards. More touchdowns and less drops. I just don't see how someone of his caliber doesn't improve.

Especially when the defenses this year outside the division we are playing are less elite overall compared to last season.



Benson starting bouncing it outside less and running more downhill as time went on.

The 3 big games we lost in the 2nd half of the season, he deserved more carries. That might have made a difference in SEA when Connor had 8 yards on 7 carries.

From week 8 on he became extremely consistent. He didn't play the last 3 weeks of the season.

Week 1-7: 31 carries, 117 yards = 3.77 ypr 2 catches for 12 yards

Week 9-13: 25 carries 137 yards = 5.48 ypr, 4-4 catches for 47 yards

He only had 10 more snaps than the first period. There is at least minor improvement here.

This is especially significant cuz it was when our oline was playing its weakest.

There is no reason he can't get closer to 500 yards next year if he gets more carries.

Bigger thing is he was a lethal screen back in college. But Petzing hasn't tried it yet!

You must be registered for see images attach

If JC still has it in the tank I would really like to see him and Benson split carries 50/50ish during the season. JC has shown to be fairly cool under fire and we may need that in the playoffs. It would also give the coaching staff some pretty definitive comparison in order to evaluate rather or not we still need a replacement for JC.
12-15 carries each per game would be good. With the odd carries going to the other backs. I would also like to see Benson get more shots in obvious short yardage situations. The coaches love having JC out there because he is a hardnose runner. We need to be sure that Benson can be just as tough and determined

 

[kerouac9]

Michael Wilson > AJ Green, he was declining.

Cmon. This is crazy. AJ Green had 850 yards in 2021. Michael Wilson had 550 last year.

 

[kerouac9]

Also, I do still think our defense will be better than 2021, which will give the offense another boost.

That defense was 11th in scoring and yardage and fifth in turnover percentage.

Big step up.

 

[BACH]

I think that Hudson is obviously better than Froholdt and prime Captain is around as good as third year PJJ coming off an injury.

Don’t think the third guard matter as much as whether you have a potential hall of famer at WR2 compared to Michael Wilson, but do you.

Never back down no matter how half-cocked and -baked your initial assertion was.

First of all, I do not understand why you are the person challenging this. The 2021 team was so much older and with so many players that had already hit the 64 start benchmark. You have earlier argued this is the point where players start to decline, so why the change?

When did I back down?


Hudson was top 5 when signed and started to decline mid first season. He was already done in 2021 and Fro (also top 5 C) is better if 2021 is the baseline.

PJJ is already played better in his first year at LT than DJ was for all his career except his one good year. I'll take PJJ any day.

Williams and 2025 Beachum is better than 2021 Beachum.

No difference between Brown and Pugh. Pugh was average and on his last legs in 2021.

Adams is better.

OL Depth is better.

The RB room is better. Edmunds was a good scheme fit, but not a great player. There is better depth.

TE room is much much better. McBride is zero contest. Reiman and Higgins would both clearly be #2 TE in 2021.

The only position where I would take the 2021 team is WR.

 

[kerouac9]

Marvin Harrison put on a lot of muscle and I just don't see how he doesn't improve.

Pure cope. He can improve significantly and still not be better than Hop in 2021.

 

[Proximo]

Yes if you project deranged expectations on a bunch of people who haven't shown that before it looks as good. But I'm sorry this is crazy talk.

Deranged expectations? Last I checked most players improve dramatically after their rookie year.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Deranged expectations? Last I checked most players improve dramatically after their rookie year.

To the point that they’re arguably one of the top 3 WRs in the entire game… which is what Hopkins was.

I mean… you really EXPECT Harrison to be a top 3 WR in the entire league this year?

 

[Proximo]

Pure cope. He can improve significantly and still not be better than Hop in 2021.

2021 Hop actually only had 42 catches for 572 yards and 8TD's - that was in 10 games and he never got 100 yards in a game.

I am pretty sure Marvin will surpass that.

Even if you meant 2020 Hopkins - where he got 1407 yards and 6 TD's - that still seems within reach for Marv to me.

 

[Proximo]

To the point that they’re arguably one of the top 3 WRs in the entire game… which is what Hopkins was. And that’s AN EXPECTATION?

I mean… you really EXPECT Harrison to be a top 3 WR in the entire league this year?

2021 top Receivers were actually
Kupp 1947 Yds, 16 TD's
Adams 1553 Yds, 11 TD's
Jefferson 1616 Yds, 10 TD's
Tyreek Hill 1239 Yds, 9 TD's
Diggs 1225 yds, 10 TD's

As I pointed out in the post above
Hopkins 572 yds, 8 TD's

Do I expect Marv to be top 3 - no. Top 10 - Yes.

 

[kerouac9]

2021 Hop actually only had 42 catches for 572 yards and 8TD's - that was in 10 games and he never got 100 yards in a game.

I am pretty sure Marvin will surpass that.

Even if you meant 2020 Hopkins - where he got 1407 yards and 6 TD's - that still seems within reach for Marv to me.

The real question is do you really expect the top 3 WRs to combine for 2400+ receiving yards and 16 TDs? The 2024 WR room produced 1775 yards and 15 TDs.

I don't see how that number tops 2100 yards next year, but I expect the TD number to go down because I expect McBride to score more than 2 receiving TDs.

 

[CardNots]

Do I expect Marv to be top 3 - no. Top 10 - Yes.

With McBride and Conner we don’t need Marv to be top 3.

I expect Marv to double his TDs which would be a great contribution to the team’s success.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

With McBride and Conner we don’t need Marv to be top 3.

I expect Marv to double his TDs which would be a great contribution to the team’s success.

That's a lofty expectation. Ja'Marr Chase had 17 leading the league. If Marv has 16, he will be that top 3 receiver people here are debating...

 

[football karma]

The real question is do you really expect the top 3 WRs to combine for 2400+ receiving yards and 16 TDs? The 2024 WR room produced 1775 yards and 15 TDs.

I don't see how that number tops 2100 yards next year, but I expect the TD number to go down because I expect McBride to score more than 2 receiving TDs.

and in addition to personnel -

I think the Cards philosophy is "safe and controlled". Run the ball, throw a bunch of 7-10 yard passes, play defense. For all of Gannons "pew, pew, pew" explosives -- their moves on personnel say that they are good with two solid possession receivers and a really good TE in the passing game.

That doesnt suggest giant numbers for the WRS

 

[kerouac9]

and in addition to personnel -

I think the Cards philosophy is "safe and controlled". Run the ball, throw a bunch of 7-10 yard passes, play defense. For all of Gannons "pew, pew, pew" explosives -- their moves on personnel say that they are good with two solid possession receivers and a really good TE in the passing game.

That doesnt suggest giant numbers for the WRS

I think that the 7-10 passes are by necessity, not design. Run the ball and short passing congests the middle of the field and should open up deep passes.

MHJ had one reception of 30 or more yards last season. People are complaining about not having a deep threat, but we've seen over and over again that there are guys downfield who aren't getting targets.