McCoy's Offense

[GimmedaBall]

Our new OC, Mike McCoy, returned to his roots as as OC last season with the Broncos after being a HC with the Chargers. Unlike BA at HC, McCoy at HC did not call the plays for the Chargers.

His results on his return to Denver as their OC were a mixed bag going from the fan base pumped to him to finally getting fired by Elway. The common thread was that his playbook was 'too complicated' On one hand, he was 'out scheming' the opponents but in the end his playbook 'out schemed' his own players who were trying to perform on the field.

Happy with the scheme in Denver while he was the new guy and then when they were winning:

http://www.espn.com/blog/denver-bro...or-broncos-roll-up-the-sleeves-to-get-to-work

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...-offensive-makeover-on-display-in-broncos-win

http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-a...ke-McCoy/62b3e537-37cd-4b0e-b9c7-96f4f1756264

Not-so-happy with the scheme when they were losing 6 in a row (cite need to simply playbook):

https://sportsnaut.com/2017/11/frustration-mike-mccoy-scheme-denver/

https://www.denverpost.com/2017/11/20/mike-mccoy-fired-denver-broncos/

Comparison of the 'Great Offensive Minds' (get ready for the dink-and-dunk)

https://sportsnaut.com/2017/11/frustration-mike-mccoy-scheme-denver/

(1) Looks to be a big learning curve. One advantage of young vets like Bradford and Glennon---they are familiar with different OC schemes and reading a D. Bradford went through several OC while with the Rams.

(2) Do the Cards have the surrounding players who will take to the new playbook? No problem with Fitz - - - but who else is going to be running patterns? Expect some L's as mistakes are made in key moments---a rook WR turning the wrong way, OL blocking scheme incorrect for the play, etc. Realize it took CP half a season to get the BA playbook---we were still seeing key mistakes between WR-QB after BA's system was in place for a couple years.

(3) Not to get yet another thread headed down the QB debate BUT do any of the QBs in this draft have the football IQ to learn and implement the McCoy playbook? I have not been able to find the Wonderlic scores for this draft class--or the results of the interview process. We need a 'Gruden' sit down with the QB at QB interview. That needs to be a consideration should the Cards go after a QB in the draft---will the guy be able to handle the playbook---especially with little OTF practice? McCoy will scheme to the opponent which will require weekly study time to get the calls. Palmer put in the off-practice time to learn the playcalls for the upcoming game---our QBs will be required to do the same.

I think one reason BA was high on Gabbert---the guy did absorb the playbook and actually looked more in tune with the play call over Stanton and his years with the playbook.

(4) How will SW and McCoy work together? SW wants to run the ball first---McCoy has been a HC and in the league for many years. Will this dynamic work when SW wants the play calls to be heavy on runs and MM wants to West-Coast pass his way down the field?

 

[Stout]

I hope the fact that we have another OC who's offense has a steep learning curve doesn't end up with the team routinely sitting rookies because of it. I think that hurt us under the Arian's regime.

 

[WisconsinCard]

I hope the fact that we have another OC who's offense has a steep learning curve doesn't end up with the team routinely sitting rookies because of it. I think that hurt us under the Arian's regime.

I don't believe that McCoy's offense (as you put it) will have a steep learning curve. He has always played towards the QBs strengths. Which to me says he'll try and use the run to set up the pass, and it would not surprise me to see is dink and dunk. Take what the D is giving us for the first 6 or 8 games. It would not make sense to try and run a complicated type offense with no experience at WR, and an o-line that has not played together.

 

[THESMEL]

I'm inspired - by promise balanced offensive play calling and fundamentally sound football.

Wilks emphasized Tuesday he shares the football philosophy of many, having strong play at the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball. He is happy with the additions of new offensive linemen Justin Pugh

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and Andre Smith

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, and Johnson’s recovery is at the centerpiece of it helping the offense.

“I believe, a defensive coach, that there is nothing more demoralizing – nothing more demoralizing – than having an offense run up and down the field,” Wilks said. “This is a pass-happy league. Teams are going to get their passing yardage. But you’ve got to be able to run the ball on offense.”

 

[Ronin]

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[Gandhi]

I don't believe that McCoy's offense (as you put it) will have a steep learning curve. He has always played towards the QBs strengths. Which to me says he'll try and use the run to set up the pass, and it would not surprise me to see is dink and dunk. Take what the D is giving us for the first 6 or 8 games. It would not make sense to try and run a complicated type offense with no experience at WR, and an o-line that has not played together.

I think McCoy was made a scapegoat last season in Denver, but non the less the head coach Vance Joseph after the firing talked about how their offensive schemes probably needed to be simplified, and there were reports that some of the offensive players were unhappy with McCoy’s complicated playbook. Take it for what it’s worth.

 

[Jetstream Green]

McCoy's offense and Josh Rosen... smart kid who wants to be challenged, which means someone needs to post a thread about how advantageous the two are

 

[WisconsinCard]

I think McCoy was made a scapegoat last season in Denver, but non the less the head coach Vance Joseph after the firing talked about how their offensive schemes probably needed to be simplified, and there were reports that some of the offensive players were unhappy with McCoy’s complicated playbook. Take it for what it’s worth.

I get that, but it a little different when you inherit something VS build something. It is hard to play to a QB strengths if the rest of the team is not built that way.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I think McCoy was made a scapegoat last season in Denver, but non the less the head coach Vance Joseph after the firing talked about how their offensive schemes probably needed to be simplified, and there were reports that some of the offensive players were unhappy with McCoy’s complicated playbook. Take it for what it’s worth.

I've always thought that this indicative of having dumb players. Manning sure understood his offense. It's usually the QBs who struggle with learning an offense since they have to understand players more thoroughly than any other player.

I remember someone (was it Russ Smith?) saying he knew someone who knew Skelton. Skelton wasn't a dedicated player and didn't prepare at the NFL level. That was Jake Plummer's downfall and is the reason that I can't look at him with any reverence or fondness....he fully admitted when he went to Denver that he didn't prepare like a pro with the Cardinals and didn't watch film. As a fan of the team who paid to watch a lot of losses under Plummer, that pissed me off to no end. He goes to Denver and finally decides to take his career seriously? Screw that guy, we deserved better.

 

[iLLmatiC]

Did Denver have anyone behind center last year? Denver's QB situation was/is a dumpster fire.

 

[JeffGollin]

Here's what I'm hoping:

McCoy's offense figures to emphasize quick developing passing (that keeps the QB healthy) and achieving favorable match ups.

His offense, as drawn up, may be complicated, but may carry with it a limited downside risk should a player miss an assignment.

The focus on matchups suggests different game plans from week to week.

Vulnerability that most concerns me involves terminology - i.e. is the play-calling so complex that our QB's will have trouble getting plays off on time?

 

[oaken1]

Here's what I'm hoping:

McCoy's offense figures to emphasize quick developing passing (that keeps the QB healthy) and achieving favorable match ups.

His offense, as drawn up, may be complicated, but may carry with it a limited downside risk should a player miss an assignment.

The focus on matchups suggests different game plans from week to week.

Vulnerability that most concerns me involves terminology - i.e. is the play-calling so complex that our QB's will have trouble getting plays off on time?

we have a couple pretty good QB's so I am not too worried about them getting it. But after Larry we are limited at WR... I think with Butler and Kirk we have some talent,... I just dont know how well these guys will pick up the offense. These more complicated offenses will generally have tons of WR options for how their route tree goes based on what the defense is doing. so often it will look like the QB threw a bad ball when in fact a WR ran the wrong route based on a bad read.
But Haley ran a complicated offense with us under wis... Warner executed it very well once Larry and Q were up to speed...early on Larry ran lots of bad routes in that O.

fortunately both Bradford and Rosen understand offensive football pretty well,...much like Kurt did,...and they both also possess a quick release and throw with anticipation,...also like Kurt did.... both Larry and CK should benefit from this offense as I expect we will see lots of ins/outs and slants...which plays to their strengths a bit... they should be getting hit right after their break...short passes with RAC..... Imagine DJ doing a quick slant in the slot against a nickel back, five yard pass, turn up field, stiff arm.... then he is off.

but I think it will look ugly for a while until everybody is on the same page.

 

[Ronin]

Mike Jurecki‏Verified account@mikejurecki 14m14 minutes ago

Just a guess Mike McCoy offense could resemble Josh McDaniels offense with traits of course without Tom Brady. A lot of three-step drops, multiple tight ends formation, using the fullback. The only difference would be David Johnson is the bell cow vs. running back by committee.

 

[GuernseyCard]

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[GoldGloveschmidt]

Mike Jurecki‏Verified account@mikejurecki 14m14 minutes ago

Just a guess Mike McCoy offense could resemble Josh McDaniels offense with traits of course without Tom Brady. A lot of three-step drops, multiple tight ends formation, using the fullback. The only difference would be David Johnson is the bell cow vs. running back by committee.

I wouldn't say that's the 'only' difference.

The Patriots have Gronk. We don't even have enough TE on the roster to run a multiple TE formation.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

I hope the fact that we have another OC who's offense has a steep learning curve doesn't end up with the team routinely sitting rookies because of it. I think that hurt us under the Arian's regime.

I kept hearing about BA's complicated playbook, yet it felt like 5-6 plays, run with slight variations.

 

[GuernseyCard]

I kept hearing about BA's complicated playbook, yet it felt like 5-6 plays, run with slight variations.

Football is run or pass in as many variations as you can conceive and the vast majority of fans barely notice the nuances .

 

[THESMEL]

I hope we do a couple running plays very well and very often - too me strong fundamental football is to establish a normal and then vary off that normal with proper timing and execution- like establishing run before play action is most effective - on a deep Chess board level - I’ll take McCoy - we have a rookie back that wa hurt last year that may be a great open field threat,

 

[WisconsinCard]

I hope we do a couple running plays very well and very often - too me strong fundamental football is to establish a normal and then vary off that normal with proper timing and execution- like establishing run before play action is most effective - on a deep Chess board level - I’ll take McCoy - we have a rookie back that wa hurt last year that may be a great open field threat,

Except what I bolded is different to most everyone. I know your idea of strong fundamental football is not the same as mine. The game has transitioned way past the day of old. I know you still believe in what Woody Hayes said, "there are only three things that can happen when you throw a pass and two of them are bad."

 

[THESMEL]

Except what I bolded is different to most everyone. I know your idea of strong fundamental football is not the same as mine. The game has transitioned way past the day of old. I know you still believe in what Woody Hayes said, "there are only three things that can happen when you throw a pass and two of them are bad."

I think the f7ndementals are the same -

Team Description
Arizona Vertical Passing with Zone-Blocking Scheme
Atlanta Vertical Passing, Power Running hybrid with Flex-Blocking Scheme (Power Man and Zone-Blocking)
Baltimore No Huddle, Ball Control hybrid with Man-Blocking Scheme.
Buffalo West Coast, No Huddle-hybrid with Zone-Blocking Scheme.
Carolina Run-first, play-action-hybrid with Zone-Blocking Scheme.
Chicago West Coast variation with flex-blocking scheme.
Cincinnati West Coast Hybrid with Flex-Blocking Scheme.
Cleveland Vertical, timing based with power running.
Dallas Air Coryell Hybrid with Zone-Blocking Scheme
Denver Up Tempo, No Huddle Scheme. (Well, not surprising, they are one of the few teams that really gets it.)
Detroit Pass-First, one-back spread set with Man-Blocking Scheme.
Green Bay Modified West Coast with Zone-Blocking Scheme.
Houston West Coast with Zone-Blocking Scheme.
Indianapolis West Coast focus with high-percentage passes and Flex-Blocking Scheme.
Jacksonville Up Tempo stretch spread with Zone-Blocking Scheme
Kansas City West Coast with Zone-Blocking Scheme
Miami West Coast with Zone-Blocking Scheme and some up tempo.
Minnesota West Coast with Zone-Blocking Scheme
New England Up Tempo Erhardt-Perkins with Man-Blocking scheme.
New Orleans West Coast/Air Coryell hybrid with Flex Blocking scheme. Also mainly Shotgun.
New York Giants West Coast hybrid with Multiple Screens and hurry up, no huddle.
New York Jets Timing based, West Coast Hybrid with Zone Blocking
Oakland Power Running Play Action Hybrid
Philadelphia Up Tempo Spread with Zone Blocking
Pittsburgh Up Tempo Spread Hybrid with Man Blocking
San Diego West Coast Hybrid with Power Blocking
San Francisco West Coast Hybrid, some read option with Flex-Blocking Scheme.
Seattle West Coast Power Running Hybrid with Zone Blocking
St Louis Air Coryell, Play Action Hybrid with Man Blocking
Tampa Bay Up Tempo Ball Control run based with Zone Blocking
Tennessee Some Pistol and Ball Control run first scheme.
Washington West Coast Hybrid, some read option with Zone Blocking

 

[WisconsinCard]

I think the f7ndementals are the same -

Team Description
Arizona Vertical Passing with Zone-Blocking Scheme
Atlanta Vertical Passing, Power Running hybrid with Flex-Blocking Scheme (Power Man and Zone-Blocking)
Baltimore No Huddle, Ball Control hybrid with Man-Blocking Scheme.
Buffalo West Coast, No Huddle-hybrid with Zone-Blocking Scheme.
Carolina Run-first, play-action-hybrid with Zone-Blocking Scheme.
Chicago West Coast variation with flex-blocking scheme.
Cincinnati West Coast Hybrid with Flex-Blocking Scheme.
Cleveland Vertical, timing based with power running.
Dallas Air Coryell Hybrid with Zone-Blocking Scheme
Denver Up Tempo, No Huddle Scheme. (Well, not surprising, they are one of the few teams that really gets it.)
Detroit Pass-First, one-back spread set with Man-Blocking Scheme.
Green Bay Modified West Coast with Zone-Blocking Scheme.
Houston West Coast with Zone-Blocking Scheme.
Indianapolis West Coast focus with high-percentage passes and Flex-Blocking Scheme.
Jacksonville Up Tempo stretch spread with Zone-Blocking Scheme
Kansas City West Coast with Zone-Blocking Scheme
Miami West Coast with Zone-Blocking Scheme and some up tempo.
Minnesota West Coast with Zone-Blocking Scheme
New England Up Tempo Erhardt-Perkins with Man-Blocking scheme.
New Orleans West Coast/Air Coryell hybrid with Flex Blocking scheme. Also mainly Shotgun.
New York Giants West Coast hybrid with Multiple Screens and hurry up, no huddle.
New York Jets Timing based, West Coast Hybrid with Zone Blocking
Oakland Power Running Play Action Hybrid
Philadelphia Up Tempo Spread with Zone Blocking
Pittsburgh Up Tempo Spread Hybrid with Man Blocking
San Diego West Coast Hybrid with Power Blocking
San Francisco West Coast Hybrid, some read option with Flex-Blocking Scheme.
Seattle West Coast Power Running Hybrid with Zone Blocking
St Louis Air Coryell, Play Action Hybrid with Man Blocking
Tampa Bay Up Tempo Ball Control run based with Zone Blocking
Tennessee Some Pistol and Ball Control run first scheme.
Washington West Coast Hybrid, some read option with Zone Blocking

Can someone decode this for me, I left my decoder ring in PHX the last time I was there...

 

[cardncubfan]

Can someone decode this for me, I left my decoder ring in PHX the last time I was there...

I thought it was pretty obvious. He lists each team with the type of offense they run.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

I thought it was pretty obvious. He lists each team with the type of offense they run.

Agreed...probably the easiest to read, post from THESMEL ever...

 

[oaken1]

I hope we do a couple running plays very well and very often - too me strong fundamental football is to establish a normal and then vary off that normal with proper timing and execution- like establishing run before play action is most effective - on a deep Chess board level - I’ll take McCoy - we have a rookie back that wa hurt last year that may be a great open field threat,

I agree Smelly. Ram it down their damn throat...make them stop you,...dominate the defensive front.
then just when they think they know what your doing, drop a PA and toss it forty yards down field.

FACT: Nothing demoralizes a defensive line so much as an effective running game.

FACT 2: Once the defensive front is on their heals the offense can do whatever the hell it wants to.

FACT 3: Defenses have gotten really good at picking up on tells to diagnose offensive intent..... most of those guys are really good.

 

[cardpa]

I think the f7ndementals are the same -

Team Description
Arizona Vertical Passing with Zone-Blocking Scheme
Atlanta Vertical Passing, Power Running hybrid with Flex-Blocking Scheme (Power Man and Zone-Blocking)
Baltimore No Huddle, Ball Control hybrid with Man-Blocking Scheme.
Buffalo West Coast, No Huddle-hybrid with Zone-Blocking Scheme.
Carolina Run-first, play-action-hybrid with Zone-Blocking Scheme.
Chicago West Coast variation with flex-blocking scheme.
Cincinnati West Coast Hybrid with Flex-Blocking Scheme.
Cleveland Vertical, timing based with power running.
Dallas Air Coryell Hybrid with Zone-Blocking Scheme
Denver Up Tempo, No Huddle Scheme. (Well, not surprising, they are one of the few teams that really gets it.)
Detroit Pass-First, one-back spread set with Man-Blocking Scheme.
Green Bay Modified West Coast with Zone-Blocking Scheme.
Houston West Coast with Zone-Blocking Scheme.
Indianapolis West Coast focus with high-percentage passes and Flex-Blocking Scheme.
Jacksonville Up Tempo stretch spread with Zone-Blocking Scheme
Kansas City West Coast with Zone-Blocking Scheme
Miami West Coast with Zone-Blocking Scheme and some up tempo.
Minnesota West Coast with Zone-Blocking Scheme
New England Up Tempo Erhardt-Perkins with Man-Blocking scheme.
New Orleans West Coast/Air Coryell hybrid with Flex Blocking scheme. Also mainly Shotgun.
New York Giants West Coast hybrid with Multiple Screens and hurry up, no huddle.
New York Jets Timing based, West Coast Hybrid with Zone Blocking
Oakland Power Running Play Action Hybrid
Philadelphia Up Tempo Spread with Zone Blocking
Pittsburgh Up Tempo Spread Hybrid with Man Blocking
San Diego West Coast Hybrid with Power Blocking
San Francisco West Coast Hybrid, some read option with Flex-Blocking Scheme.
Seattle West Coast Power Running Hybrid with Zone Blocking
St Louis Air Coryell, Play Action Hybrid with Man Blocking
Tampa Bay Up Tempo Ball Control run based with Zone Blocking
Tennessee Some Pistol and Ball Control run first scheme.
Washington West Coast Hybrid, some read option with Zone Blocking

Smelly, this might be the best post you ever wrote. Hands down, no kidding.