mccown on radio

[pinnacle]

got the radio on listening to mccown..
1. started off (announcer did) by saying josh could run a 4.59 40 and could bench press 300 (300 or 350) lbs.. and he is 6' 4".

2. josh must have polished up on interviewing..he sounds 10 time better than last year.

3. seth joyner is kind of giving him a hard time..if the cards sign kordell..you are on the bench unless he gets hurt..etc.

4. they got into preparation, etc... josh came into town for good today and is going to seriously hit the film room and mechanics..now.

5. josh brought up and said brees came in his 2nd year and was effective..he did say brees had tons of big 10 experience..but it can be done.

 

[pinnacle]

did not hear anything earth shattering from the rest.. sounds like a hard working guy and is going to work his ass off..starting now.. I did not know he was that fast...So we know..he is fast, strong, tall and has an above average arm strength. 2 remaining factors: can he read defenses..and can he make accurate passes. The coaches know if he is accurate.. we will not know if he can read defenses until he actually plays (unfortunately).

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by pinnacle
did not hear anything earth shattering from the rest.. sounds like a hard working guy and is going to work his ass off..starting now.. I did not know he was that fast...So we know..he is fast, strong, tall and has an above average arm strength. 2 remaining factors: can he read defenses..and can he make accurate passes. The coaches know if he is accurate.. we will not know if he can read defenses until he actually plays (unfortunately).

I know the guy couldnt read a defense in a 7 on 7 drill with absolutely no pressure being applied and he also could not make an accurate throw in the same drill!

 

[pinnacle]

seth joyner is going to discuss emmitt smith..historically, seth seems to know less about the cardinals than many fans on this boards..

 

[pinnacle]

shane..I saw him at training camp also..he looked lost and parsons looked better. ...but maybe he has been through like 100+ practices know and has a clue..who knows..

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by pinnacle
shane..I saw him at training camp also..he looked lost and parsons looked better. ...but maybe he has been through like 100+ practices know and has a clue..who knows..

Boy I hope you are right. All I know is that was towards the end of TC when the guy should have been acclamated and be comforable and he still looked horrible!

 

[Tangodnzr]

Originally posted by Shane H
I know the guy couldnt read a defense in a 7 on 7 drill with absolutely no pressure being applied and he also could not make an accurate throw in the same drill!

He was also a green as grass rookie, is that any big surprise????

Also, reading NFL defenses is one of the most challenging aspects of being a pro QB, and usually comes with time. Few are very good at it right away.

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
He was also a green as grass rookie, is that any big surprise????

Sorry Tango but that excuse doesnt fly. Then why did the undrafted FA rookie Parsons look comfortable in the same drill and make nice impressive and accurate throws???

The guy is more than green and towards the end of camp should be able to make those throws especially with NO PRESSURE!

 

[Tangodnzr]

Why was Drew Brees a better prospect out of college than some others?

No simple answer but, I think, a combination of personality, and experience.

A few practices just out of college for a kid as raw as McCown is, I really doubt is anything to legitimately hang your hat on as to what his true potential down the line may be.

Rich Gannon threw 5 interceptions in one game last year? Must be a loser huh?

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
Why was Drew Brees a better prospect out of college than some others?

No simple answer but, I think, a combination of personality, and experience.

A few practices just out of college for a kid as raw as McCown is, I really doubt is anything to legitimately hang your hat on as to what his true potential down the line may be.

Rich Gannon threw 5 interceptions in one game last year? Must be a loser huh?

Granted the guy could get better(After a few YEARS of coaching maybe). But someone who is a 3rd round pick towards the end of Training Camp should be settled down enough to make decent throws especially with absolutley zero pressure being applied. Oh and he wasnt just having a bad day he looked horrible at all 7 practices that I saw!

If you dont think so I really dont know what to say! You really are looking through rose colored glasses!

By the way what does Gannon have to do with the price of rice in China or this thread for that matter??

 

[Tangodnzr]

My point about Gannon was simply that you can't judge a person's career by only viewing their actions through a short time frame or window.

Even the best have a bad day or week or two at times.

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
My point about Gannon was simply that you can't judge a person's career by only viewing their actions through a short time frame or window.

Even the best have a bad day or week or two at times.

Maybe so but this guy has to be the rawest of QBs I have seen in awhile. While he may have physical skills I just dont see him being ready to start in this league at minimum of another 2 to 3 years!

 

[Tangodnzr]

Shane, I'm not really trying to pick a personal bone with you, but your comments do remind me of some that are so typical many times.....

What was one of the biggest complaints about Jake the last year or two?

about the most common one I remember is: " he's hasn't learned anything. He's still making rookie mistakes 6 years down the road." "You expect mistakes from rookies, not from experienced players."

Now you seem to be condemning McCown because he's a rookie making "rookie" mistakes.

....hmmmmmm

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
Shane, I'm not really trying to pick a personal bone with you, but your comments do remind me of some that are so typical many times.....

What was one of the biggest complaints about Jake the last year or two?

about the most common one I remember is: " he's hasn't learned anything. He's still making rookie mistakes 6 years down the road." "You expect mistakes from rookies, not from experienced players."

Now you seem to be condemning McCown because he's a rookie making "rookie" mistakes.

....hmmmmmm

No offense taken at all Tango and I love a good debate and rarely take it personal like the many. I have posted with or around you now for over two years and we have had and will continue to have our agreements and disagreements!

On that note I do expect rookie mistakes. But most rookies during a TC or Pre-season will show some flashes of the brilliance and reasons why they were drafted. To this date I have yet to see any of that from this kid which worries me. Its pretty sad to me that an undrafted FA like Parsons can look light years ahead of a guy that is supposed to be our QB of the future. It really doesnt give me much hope!

 

[Tangodnzr]

I like McCown, but it was no secret that he was drafted for his potential, and as a project.....NOT as an instant savior.

If a college QB can start becoming a consistant NFL level player in his third year, that's generally considered good. That means I would expect McCown to start being ready sometime next year. And not even to begin the year, but maybe mid to latter part.

Look at Michael Vick...and what a freak he is. He only STARTED to show some consistancy in his 2nd year, and he is a rare breed, and still has considerable room for improvement.

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
I like McCown, but it was no secret that he was drafted for his potential, and as a project.....NOT as an instant savior.

If a college QB can start becoming a consistant NFL level player in his third year, that's generally considered good. That means I would expect McCown to start being ready sometime next year. And not even to begin the year, but maybe mid to latter part.

Look at Michael Vick...and what a freak he is. He only STARTED to show some consistancy in his 2nd year, and he is a rare breed, and still has considerable room for improvement.

But Vick showed some if not lots of brilliance in his first year even though he was raw. Much like my post just prior to this one Ijust havent seen anything at all from McCown!

 

[Tangodnzr]

Originally posted by Shane H
Its pretty sad to me that an undrafted FA like Parsons can look light years ahead of a guy that is supposed to be our QB of the future. It really doesnt give me much hope!

Hey, I'll write that off more as Parsons just making progress. If he beats out McCown, more power to him, I'd love to see a controversy about which one of these two young QB's should be playing.

 

[JeffGollin]

There's a fine line here. Just because some of us feel McCown has looked raw doesn't mean he can't progress to the point where he's a hellacious QB.

But we don't have much to go on, and you don't want to go into next season placing all your bets on a questionmark.

So many of us are terrified at the prospect of having to rely on an unknown entity to lead us next year. But it doesn't mean we're down on the kid.

And so far as comparisons with Michael Vick or Drew Brees go, each is a totally different case: (a) Vick is so physically talented that you can risk putting him in there because you know his great atheticism will bail him out of tight scrapes. (b) Brees was a polished big time QB when he joined SD as a rook. (The only concern was arm-strength). So starting him early in his career was a low-risk proposition. (c) McCown, on the other hand came in a big, strong rawboned kid who was as green as grass. When he's ready remains up in the air.

 

[pinetopred]

I compared McCown to Farve when we drafted him, he has that kind of talent, is he there yet, not even close, but he does have some things that you can't coach like arm strength and athletic ability.

I also said if the Cards were patient (I know some of you hate that word) in 2-3 years they would have a very good QB, correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Farve traded his 2nd year in the league from Atlanta to Greenbay, and the rest is history. Don't get me wrong if McCown turned out to be even close to as good as Farve I would crap myself, but I also think sometimes you have to take an educated gamble and hope the player pans out.

This year everybody is real high on Boller from Cal again another guy that can throw the ball hard and has athletic ability to spare, the biggest difference between him and McCown is level of compitition so he may be a little more advanced coming into the NFL then McCown, but I wouldn't draft him unless I would be willing to wait on him for a couple of years also, sometimes you have to take the good with the bad when you draft a player and when you draft a player that was raw at the college level you better be ready to wait for awhile.

 

[jw7]

Originally posted by pinnacle
got the radio on listening to mccown..

2. josh must have polished up on interviewing..he sounds 10 time better than last year.

Yeah I agree, he did sound better.

He broke down his biggest areas for improvement - releasing the ball quicker, improving his footwork (he thought he didn't take advantage of his footspeed), and studying film.

I was impressed with the interview compared to the last time I heard him.

So far its all talk - we'll see if there is an improvement in camp!

 

[az643dp]

Originally posted by Shane H
Sorry Tango but that excuse doesnt fly. Then why did the undrafted FA rookie Parsons look comfortable in the same drill and make nice impressive and accurate throws???

I think some of Parsons success came because whenever he was in there, even in practice, he was going against guys that were cut. Remember, he was running 4th throughout the training camp.

I think Parsons showed some good tools, but to say that he is above McCown at this point is foolish in my mind.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Funny, but physically McCown reminds me a lot of Favre too. McCown, contrary to some draft people, has a very strong arm. We can only hope that one day he is wearing a Cardinal uniform and is as half as good as Favre.

 

[pinnacle]

when favre was mentioned..I started wondering.. wasn't he traded to green bay for a 1st or 2nd round pick? I think he was considered a "raw" talent and everyone thought green bay was crazy to give up such a high pick for a qb who was somewhat of a project... Not saying this has anything to do with mccown..does anyone know if favre was traded for a low round pick..or am I confusing him with someone else..

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by az643dp
I think some of Parsons success came because whenever he was in there, even in practice, he was going against guys that were cut. Remember, he was running 4th throughout the training camp.

I think Parsons showed some good tools, but to say that he is above McCown at this point is foolish in my mind.

I thought someone might say this. First of all talent is all relative his WRs were going against the same talent level of CBs by that point in time as well. So in your theory our 4th string CBs must be much worse than our 4th string WRs if its becasue of what you suggest???

The bottom line is that McCown was doing a drill with no pressure at all and couldnt make throws to open recievers regardless of who was on the field. So it really doesnt matter!

 

[az643dp]

Originally posted by Shane H
So in your theory our 4th string CBs must be much worse than our 4th string WRs if its becasue of what you suggest???

Shane,

Yes...I do think that the 4th string WR's were much better than the 4th string CB's.

Let's see...Jason McAddley against Justin Gallimore. Gallimore sucked while McCaddley doesn't. Nate Poole against Eric Joyce. Where is Eric Joyce?

I am not saying that McCown had a great camp. He did not. What I am saying is that I think the some of the evaluation of Parsons is inflated because the 4th string WR's, in practice and games, were far better than the corners and DB's were.