Lonzo Ball

[Cheesebeef]

There are just certain things I don't buy in the whole debate.

1. "Lonzo can't get his shot off." I think he can.
2. Markelle has been working with a pro coach for years, so he is more polished, so his upside is lower than Ball." I don't buy this either. You don't knock a guy for showing he can develop. This makes two untenable assumptions. First, Markelle cannot develop more. Why not? Second, Lonzo can develop more. Maybe so, but there is not real assurance. I do not believe there is more upside with Lonzo than with Markelle.
3. "Team record makes no difference." We have already discussed this ad nauseum.

agreed on all 3.

 

[Russ Smith]

There are just certain things I don't buy in the whole debate.

1. "Lonzo can't get his shot off." I think he can.
2. Markelle has been working with a pro coach for years, so he is more polished, so his upside is lower than Ball." I don't buy this either. You don't knock a guy for showing he can develop. This makes two untenable assumptions. First, Markelle cannot develop more. Why not? Second, Lonzo can develop more. Maybe so, but there is not real assurance. I do not believe there is more upside with Lonzo than with Markelle.
3. "Team record makes no difference." We have already discussed this ad nauseum.

Just to explain #2, what I mean is Lonzo has more room to improve than Fultz does. That doesn't mean I'm saying he will end up better, but Lonzo has essentially been exposed to real training for 6 months at UCLA with Ed Schilling that's it. Fultz has had it for 11 years.

Just like saying Fultz played for a bad coach and Lonzo didn't is true, the reality is the reason people say Fultz is so polished for his age is he's had so much high quality coaching.

He's a great athlete and he's still young so he'll get stronger, but he'll probably see less "skill development" because he's already been doing that for ages.

 

[slinslin]

I just want to ask Lonzo Ball fans one thing.

How do you rate Ricky Rubio? Ricky Rubio may be the best defender at his position, he is probably the best passer at his position, one of the best rebounders, one of the best freethrow shooters.

How high do you rate Rubio? Top 25? Top 20? Top 15?

How can such a PG that is that good facilitator, floor general, passer, defender be on consistently horrendous teams his entire career? Since apparently getting a facilitator like Ball automatically makes teams better I am very curious.

Also how do you evaluate Lonzo Balls relatively poor ball handling for a PG, his broken shooting mechanics that make him go left all the time and make it very hard to pull up or his low foul drawing ability?

The successful PGs in the league are all good ball handlers, put pressure on the defense and are able to score from all plays.

Markelle Fultz has worked out with the same trainer that worked out Kevin Durant as a kid. How is that something to hold against him? The same trainer by the way says that Markelle Fultz is just as good as Durant was.

 

[itlnsunsfan]

I just want to ask Lonzo Ball fans one thing.

How do you rate Ricky Rubio? Ricky Rubio may be the best defender at his position, he is probably the best passer at his position, one of the best rebounders, one of the best freethrow shooters.

How high do you rate Rubio? Top 25? Top 20? Top 15?

How can such a PG that is that good facilitator, floor general, passer, defender be on consistently horrendous teams his entire career? Since apparently getting a facilitator like Ball automatically makes teams better I am very curious.

He can't shoot.

 

[slinslin]

Best case I see for Lonzo is a poor mans John Wall. - less athletic, less ball handle, less defense, less scoring

 

[Russ Smith]

I just want to ask Lonzo Ball fans one thing.

How do you rate Ricky Rubio? Ricky Rubio may be the best defender at his position, he is probably the best passer at his position, one of the best rebounders, one of the best freethrow shooters.

How high do you rate Rubio? Top 25? Top 20? Top 15?

How can such a PG that is that good facilitator, floor general, passer, defender be on consistently horrendous teams his entire career? Since apparently getting a facilitator like Ball automatically makes teams better I am very curious.

Also how do you evaluate Lonzo Balls relatively poor ball handling for a PG, his broken shooting mechanics that make him go left all the time and make it very hard to pull up or his low foul drawing ability?

The successful PGs in the league are all good ball handlers, put pressure on the defense and are able to score from all plays.

Markelle Fultz has worked out with the same trainer that worked out Kevin Durant as a kid. How is that something to hold against him? The same trainer by the way says that Markelle Fultz is just as good as Durant was.

Rubios career best as a 3 point shooter was 34% as a rookie, 94 total shots. If you're a career .315 shooter with everyone standing 5 feet away yelling at you to shoot it, you're a terrible shooter.



So now Fultz is as good as Durant, which makes sense since he just said yesterday he not only intends to be rookie of the year, he wants to win MVP. He probably will be ROY he'll get the minutes, so why not I'm sure he'll be the MVP too, and yes he meant as a rookie, not at some point down the line.

 

[slinslin]

So now Fultz is as good as Durant, which makes sense since he just said yesterday he not only intends to be rookie of the year, he wants to win MVP. He probably will be ROY he'll get the minutes, so why not I'm sure he'll be the MVP too, and yes he meant as a rookie, not at some point down the line.

What you are paraphrasing was an answer in regards to his goals where he said his goal was to be Rookie of the Year but that with his ambition is trying to be MVP and to win.

Please put the full quote down here.

I'd much rather have a guy btw who strives to be the #1 pick than a guy who says he would rather be picked #3 and go to the Lakers.

 

[Russ Smith]

What you are paraphrasing was an answer in regards to his goals where he said his goal was to be Rookie of the Year but that with his ambition is trying to be MVP and to win.

Please put the full quote down here.

I'd much rather have a guy btw who strives to be the #1 pick than a guy who says he would rather be picked #3 and go to the Lakers.

"No. 1 is big for me because I've been dreaming about it all my life. I want to come in and kill it. I want to be rookie of the year ... honestly, me? I want to be MVP next year," he said.

That's from ESPN the .... suggests they edited it so I don't have the full quote.

My point is if Lonzo Ball or his dad had said that it would be all over the news today and you'd be all over Lonzo for saying it. Fultz said it so it's ok.

 

[slinslin]

"No. 1 is big for me because I've been dreaming about it all my life. I want to come in and kill it. I want to be rookie of the year ... honestly, me? I want to be MVP next year," he said.

That's from ESPN the .... suggests they edited it so I don't have the full quote.

My point is if Lonzo Ball or his dad had said that it would be all over the news today and you'd be all over Lonzo for saying it. Fultz said it so it's ok.

No it is not, he first of all said he wants to be rookie of the year.

It is easy to understand what he meant and how he said it. He knows full well that MVP is unrealistic.

Lavar Ball goes out there and says the Warriors would be better with Lonzo than Curry right now, period. He does not say Lonzo wants to be better than Curry. Big Difference.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Disappointed that fultz didn't talk about wanting to help his team win but rather individual goals. Helps cement the "winning isn't important" concept of him.

 

[slinslin]

Disappointed that fultz didn't talk about wanting to help his team win but rather individual goals. Helps cement the "winning isn't important" concept of him.

rofl, he did

way to judge on 3 setences.

this winning is not important stupidity again. I am done. Educate yourself about the draft please.

When someone says "I want to be an MVP" it somehow translates to you as "winning is not important concept" to you? That is ridiculous.

What winners say is "I strive to be the #1 pick, I worked all my life to be the #1 pick".

What losers say is "I would rather be picked #3 and go to the Lakers than be the #1 pick".

 

[Russ Smith]

Disappointed that fultz didn't talk about wanting to help his team win but rather individual goals. Helps cement the "winning isn't important" concept of him.

I actually thought about saying it but I think the question asked to him was what were his personal goals for the year not what were his goals.

In other words I think they asked him about individual goals not team goals.

 

[Russ Smith]

rofl, he did

way to judge on 3 setences.

this winning is not important stupidity again. I am done. Educate yourself about the draft please.

When someone says "I want to be an MVP" it somehow translates to you as "winning is not important concept" to you? That is ridiculous.

What winners say is "I strive to be the #1 pick, I worked all my life to be the #1 pick".

What losers say is "I would rather be picked #3 and go to the Lakers than be the #1 pick".

and winners play when injured, losers sit on the bench because their knee hurts and they want to be the #1 pick.

See how that goes both ways?

 

[slinslin]

and winners play when injured, losers sit on the bench because their knee hurts and they want to be the #1 pick.

See how that goes both ways?

That is utter non-sense and you know it, you can't be that stupid.

Fultz sat out in meaningless games, that he does not get paid for and could risk his entire career and the future of his family.

 

[Chaplin]

What is utter nonsense is this argument. Slinslin arguing that the difference between Fultz and Ball is like the difference between Chris Paul and Negele Knight is laughable. There is a reason they are project #1 and #2. There are not many differences between the two.

Completely ridiculous. Writing off either one of these guys is just plain stupid.

And yes, Fultz ABSOLUTELY was talking about winning MVP this year. There's nothing wrong with swagger. Why is this a big deal?

 

[slinslin]

What is utter nonsense is this argument. Slinslin arguing that the difference between Fultz and Ball is like the difference between Chris Paul and Negele Knight is laughable. There is a reason they are project #1 and #2. There are not many differences between the two.

Completely ridiculous. Writing off either one of these guys is just plain stupid.

And yes, Fultz ABSOLUTELY was talking about winning MVP this year. There's nothing wrong with swagger. Why is this a big deal?

Are you kidding me? I never said there was anything wrong with Fultz saying that. I am arguing the claim that Fultz saying that in the manner like he did is anywhere similiar to saying Lonzo is better than Stephen Curry right now and that the Warriors would be better with Lonzo right now.

The difference is that Fultz knows what is realitic and what is not, that is why he answered Rookie of the Year first and then said to paraphrase "but honestly with me, my ambition is to win MVP next year". He did not say "I am going to win MVP" next year.

The reason they are projected #1 and #2 is because Ball is massively overhyped, mainly due to being a so called "winner". He was never considered in the top 2 before the UCLA hype took over.

To me there is a massive difference between Fultz and Ball. The better question would be who is better among Ball, Smith and Fox.

 

[Russ Smith]

That is utter non-sense and you know it, you can't be that stupid.

Fultz sat out in meaningless games, that he does not get paid for and could risk his entire career and the future of his family.

So why play at all? Why not sit out the season or go play overseas. it's late April now I haven't heard a single report saying markelle Fultz has a knee injury.

IMO he sat because he got tired of hearing they keep losing. He came back to play the last 2 home games, and then sat the rest of the way. I think he figured the more they lost with him sitting the better it proved it wasn't his fault they were so bad.

 

[Russ Smith]

What is utter nonsense is this argument. Slinslin arguing that the difference between Fultz and Ball is like the difference between Chris Paul and Negele Knight is laughable. There is a reason they are project #1 and #2. There are not many differences between the two.

Completely ridiculous. Writing off either one of these guys is just plain stupid.

And yes, Fultz ABSOLUTELY was talking about winning MVP this year. There's nothing wrong with swagger. Why is this a big deal?

It isn't I was just pointing out when Lonzo, or his dad has swagger Slin calls them out for it.

I think Fultz is more NBA ready than Lonzo. He played at a well coached HS program, Lonzo didn't, he had a private trainer who works out pros, for 11 years, Lonzo didn't. If the question is who makes more impact as a rookie I suspect the answer will be Fultz. If the question is who's improved the team more in 2-3 years I think the answer will be Lonzo Ball.

 

[Russ Smith]

Are you kidding me? I never said there was anything wrong with Fultz saying that. I am arguing the claim that Fultz saying that in the manner like he did is anywhere similiar to saying Lonzo is better than Stephen Curry right now and that the Warriors would be better with Lonzo right now.

The difference is that Fultz knows what is realitic and what is not, that is why he answered Rookie of the Year first and then said to paraphrase "but honestly with me, my ambition is to win MVP next year". He did not say "I am going to win MVP" next year.

The reason they are projected #1 and #2 is because Ball is massively overhyped, mainly due to being a so called "winner". He was never considered in the top 2 before the UCLA hype took over.

To me there is a massive difference between Fultz and Ball. The better question would be who is better among Ball, Smith and Fox.

wait so all this time you've been talking about the player Lavar Ball not Lonzo? Because it was Lavar Ball not Lonzo that said Lonzo was better than Curry and the Warriors were better off with him. Lonzo never said that even once.

All he said was when asked are you better than Fultz said yes I think I am, I think I make my team better.

The reason Lonzo moved up in the draft this year was he didn't play much AAU ball in HS and that's how you get ranked in HS, AAU ball. He was never the top rated PG in HS, you had Smith, you had Fultz, you had Fox, you had believe it or not Kobi Simmons, all of those guys at one point or another were ranked ahead of Lonzo Ball in HS. It took the big senior year by Chino Hills and his play at Adidas Nations to move him up.

Then they went to the McD's practices and everyone was talking about how much better Lonzo Ball was than they realized, because they didn't see him regularly in AAU ball.

Then he played the season and was brilliant so he moved up.

 

[Ronin]

Shoe debut by BBB

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[Mainstreet]

Shoe debut by BBB

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So much for separating Lonzo from his father.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

What is BBB? Is it a new company?

 

[slinslin]

talk about weird

 

[Ronin]

What is BBB? Is it a new company?

Big Baller Brand. New independent company started by Lavar Ball. So far nobody wants to partner with BBB.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

Big Baller Brand. New independent company started by Lavar Ball. So far nobody wants to partner with BBB.

His dad makes his shoes?