Legal Tampering period thread and Free agency.

Discussion in 'Arizona Cardinals' started by Ronin, Mar 15, 2021.

  1. BritCard

    BritCard Registered

    Age:
    44
    Posts:
    5,482
    Likes Received:
    5,486
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2020
    Location:
    UK
    I think he's more a run stuffer. He'd be a good Corey Peters replacement but he's on waivers. A whole bunch of teams above us will claim him.
     
  2. BritCard

    BritCard Registered

    Age:
    44
    Posts:
    5,482
    Likes Received:
    5,486
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2020
    Location:
    UK
    I don't think teams have been scraping together duds. I don't think Conner or Edmonds are duds.

    I think many a good team have had no better.
     
  3. football karma

    football karma Happy in the pretense of knowledge

    Posts:
    11,559
    Likes Received:
    4,892
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2002
    PFF data fwiw -- top 20 IDL. again, curious why he was released

    upload_2021-4-15_15-10-37.png
     
  4. cardncubfan

    cardncubfan H

    Age:
    58
    Posts:
    8,310
    Likes Received:
    3,753
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2008
    Location:
    Chandler
    Looks like he's gotten better each year he's played.
     
  5. Solar7

    Solar7 Meh

    Age:
    34
    Posts:
    9,602
    Likes Received:
    8,152
    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV
    Yeah, difference of opinion then. Like I said earlier in this thread or the other, I place our RB room bottom five, potentially worse if other teams in dire straits right now end up drafting the top RBs.

    Probably nothing significant to change our opinions on this until the season begins, so like Stout and Ouchie I'll let it rest.
     
  6. oaken1

    oaken1 Stone Cold

    Age:
    52
    Posts:
    11,657
    Likes Received:
    4,435
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2004
    Location:
    Modesto, California
    How many of those SB winners with weak running backs.... did so without a hall of fame quarterback?

    it’s relevant

    Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady can make up for a weak rushing attack...

    right now Kyler Murray can’t.... maybe someday.... but not right now
     
  7. BritCard

    BritCard Registered

    Age:
    44
    Posts:
    5,482
    Likes Received:
    5,486
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2020
    Location:
    UK
    I'm not so concerned about if they won or not. The point of using the SB is that we know both teams were very good and the stats are easy to find. If I dug deeper and looked at Championship games or deep playoff runs I'd find a whole bunch more.

    But off the top of my head. Manning in '11. The corpse of Peyton Manning in '15. Foles in '18.

    The whole point was to highlight you definitely don't need great backs to be a contender.
     
  8. oaken1

    oaken1 Stone Cold

    Age:
    52
    Posts:
    11,657
    Likes Received:
    4,435
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2004
    Location:
    Modesto, California
    No.... you don’t need a “great” RB.... but it doesn’t hurt. Hard to judge recent RB’s from the draft because like young quarterbacks they often get drafted by teams that just ain’t very good.... saquon is an outstanding back.... but overall the giants would have been better off drafting an olineman.... but Barkly sells jerseys...

    we need a guy... that when the play completely breaks down.... he can break a tackle or two in the backfield and lunge forward for three yards...
    A dude that can move the pile on 3rd and 1....
    a dude that can pass protect for 2.5 seconds....
    A dude that K1 knows will be “ right there in that spot” when a pass play breaks down so he has a trusted outlet....

    and we need all those guys to be the same dude...

    it helps if he also averages 5 ypc but 4.3 will do
     
  9. BritCard

    BritCard Registered

    Age:
    44
    Posts:
    5,482
    Likes Received:
    5,486
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2020
    Location:
    UK
    Well that's kind of my point. You don't NEED that guy, as evidenced by all the very good teams who haven't had that guy. Including both of last years SB teams and the SB teams from the previous year.

    It's a luxury. Something that's nice to have if you can afford it (either in cap space or draft capital). The same way it would be nice to own an Aston Martin one-77 but not if your living in a trailer.

    All Elite players are nice to have, but if you were to rank them by position RB would be right down at the bottom of the list. And this isn't just my opinion, this is widely discussed regularly in the NFL media. It's why no RB has been picked inside the top #24 for the past 2 drafts and is unlikely to this year.

    Here's a recent summary from an article in Lineups

    "Teams can still find extreme value at the running back position. It is unfair to deem players at the position replaceable, but it’s just the truth. There are a few generational talents at the position once in a while, but there are always replacements in the college ranks waiting to take the place of backs with mileage on them in the NFL. Nowadays, it’s smart for teams to use running backs on their rookie deals while expending their significant dollars at other positions on the field, such as quarterback or the defensive side of the ball. We’ve seen contenders like Patriots and the newly crowned champions the Chiefs reach the Super Bowl without relying on a heavily paid star at the running back position. Recent champions have favored a running-back-by-committee type offense while relying on great quarterbacks and defense. The game has always been centered around the quarterback position, leaving running backs in the dust. Simply put, the shelf-life of the average NFL running back isn’t that long, nor will it ever be in the future."
     
    daves and Nate like this.
  10. Solar7

    Solar7 Meh

    Age:
    34
    Posts:
    9,602
    Likes Received:
    8,152
    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV
    Peyton Manning missed the entire 2011 season due to a neck injury. In 2010 he had an amazing year. In 2012 he had an amazing year. I'm not sure what you're getting at there. And in '15, he didn't even play until the Super Bowl.
     
  11. Solar7

    Solar7 Meh

    Age:
    34
    Posts:
    9,602
    Likes Received:
    8,152
    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV
    I know I said I was done, but again, we don't have a great quarterback and defense. You're ascribing traits of other teams onto ours when we don't have the luxury.

    You're planting your feet when the numbers don't back you up. Yes, there are a few examples of teams making it with a mediocre platoon of backs combined with middling QBs, but it's the exception, not the rule.
     
  12. BritCard

    BritCard Registered

    Age:
    44
    Posts:
    5,482
    Likes Received:
    5,486
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2020
    Location:
    UK
    Did Denver win a Superbowl with a poor Peyton Manning at QB? Yes they did. Did he play 10 games that year, starting 9, and go 7-2. Yes he did. Did he have a passer rating of 67? Yes he did.

    This isn't complicated. The question was how many of those teams that didn't have great running backs didn't have great QB's and one of those is the 2015 Broncos. Including Osweiler if you want to include playoffs.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2021
    Nate likes this.
  13. BritCard

    BritCard Registered

    Age:
    44
    Posts:
    5,482
    Likes Received:
    5,486
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2020
    Location:
    UK
    What traits am I ascribing onto ours? Where have I said we have a great QB and defense? I have specifically said we have a good QB, you absolutely don't need a great one to win a SB, and that our focus should be on improving the defense because you absolutely do need a good defense.

    To win a SB you need a decent QB and a great D or a great QB and a good D. there's no guarantee you win with those things as you need good coaching and a lot of luck, but you do need those things.

    What you categorically don't need is a bellcow running back or even a very good one. As I've proven over and over again through the magic of NFL history and statistics.

    Hell, WE went to the 2009 Superbowl with 399 yards from Hightower, 514 yards from James and 187 from Arrington. When the running game was more key. That's only 1100 between them.

    So with that all said, why can't you drop the idea we need to improve running backs and focus that energy on the defense? Because we absolutely do need good CB's and a good D overall.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2021
    daves and Nate like this.
  14. slanidrac16

    slanidrac16 Registered User Contributor

    Age:
    67
    Posts:
    10,468
    Likes Received:
    5,509
    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2002
    Location:
    Plainfield, Il.
    I’d be okay if we went out and signed Duke Johnson. Throw in TE Jesse James and we could go cb ( I’d take a chance on Fairley) and then Wr in round two.
    An experienced backfield of Edmonds, Connors and Johnson would be a nice blend.
     
  15. slanidrac16

    slanidrac16 Registered User Contributor

    Age:
    67
    Posts:
    10,468
    Likes Received:
    5,509
    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2002
    Location:
    Plainfield, Il.
    I think most of the argument against you is a bell cow running back is not going to be the key to a winning season. I do believe you need 3 solid backs. I still think there are free agent running backs that could round out this core.
     
    Nate and BritCard like this.

Share This Page