Kyler Murray's Throwing Motion

Discussion in 'Arizona Cardinals' started by Solar7, May 11, 2019.

  1. Vacard

    Vacard Registered

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    The same coach who made Johny Manziel a Heisman trophy winner in his freshman and a qb whose only an inch shorter than Wilson who is now about the same weight. Cam Newton had fewer attempts than Kyler in college and wasn't he MVP? in the NFL??
     
  2. Solar7

    Solar7 Also Skeptical

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    Credit to you for going all over the board with this one and not actually having a cohesive argument.

    Manziel - a complete NFL failure, so I'm not sure you want to make the comp.
    Wilson - "they're similar in height so it means Kyler must be a success!" Let's purely disregard Russ's clear, proven success over multiple years in college, and that he was a low-risk 3rd round draft pick, not #1 overall.
    Cam Newton - besides the color of their skin and one year of play, these two are barely anything alike.

    If Kingsbury's success with Manziel, Mahomes, etc. was so wonderful and will translate into wins, why wasn't he picked up by another college program to be HC, not become USC's OC?
     
  3. Vacard

    Vacard Registered

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    Credit for you going overboard with your “criticisms” and moving goalposts every single post about KM.

    The POINT was that KK made Manziel from a incompetent qb to a competent QB and used their limited skillset to win games.

    YOu said KM was "undersized" yet Wilson was "undersized" as well. Give me a break. WIlson scrambles yet never misses a game. KM bulked up and he is about the same weight as he is. SO he is NO LONGER considered undersized.

    You said he has a limited sample size so I will STILL keep giving qb's that are a success in the NFL like Cam and Trubisky until you get it. Because you have no sensible counters to it except for skillset in which those two aforementioned play nothing alike. Repetition is the best way to learn.
     
  4. PACardsFan

    PACardsFan Registered User

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    Manziel was an NFL failure because of his mental issues, not QB attributes. Wilson is the closest comparison you can make to Murray, but Murray has a stronger arm, is faster, and more athletic. So, if you like Wilson, then you'll love Kyler. Vacard's only comparison to Newton was in his number of college passing attempts. Newton is physically imposing, but his size only put a bigger bullseye on his back, so his body is now starting to break down. Cam has a strong arm, but his release is long & slow, and his accuracy is no where near as good as Kyler's.
     
  5. Solar7

    Solar7 Also Skeptical

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    Manziel did not have a "limited skillset." He one-upped his performance the next year, when Kingsbury was gone. He had some off-the-field issues, but the kid still had it all there "on tape," as I keep getting reminded.

    Wilson's undersized. Kyler is even more undersized. Just because Russell Wilson is a moldbreaker doesn't mean Kyler is too. You can not say he's "NO LONGER" undersized, he is the shortest QB ever drafted in the first round. He's undersized and will never change it. If he succeeds, he will again be an exception to the rule. Same with the running argument - great for Russell Wilson. He's a great player. RG3 was not able to succeed this way, nor was Vick, and we're going to see if Deshaun Watson holds up after two ACL tears.

    I'm not ready to anoint Trubisky a success... year 1 wasn't very good, year 2 was a "success" in that he was able to play in the Pro Bowl as an alternate, but he's still a distant third to his lower drafted counterparts. You have Trubisky and Cam, but how about Mark Sanchez?

    You're cherrypicking successes instead of looking at the overwhelming statistical evidence that shows reason for concern.

    I get people being mad at me for being a buzzkill here, so I'm sorry for that, but meh. It's also frustrating to have this argument in a thread where I was trying to be positive and look for more info.
     
  6. CardsSunsDbacks

    CardsSunsDbacks ASFN Contributor Contributor

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    Manziel absolutely had a limited skill set. He had an average arm at best and had extremely happy feet. He was simply over-hyped because of the crazy plays that he pulled off, but in hindsight a ton of those plays only happened because of terrible decisions to begin with. Here is a clip explaining these very things.

     
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  7. Solar7

    Solar7 Also Skeptical

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    Same system, a guy working in his talented offense, but still a good enough player to get a Heisman. Under our coach's tutelage.

    Also, "Strong Opinion Sports" is one of these YouTube profiles to generate clicks and ad revenue based on hot takes. The dude's thumbnails are the same as the kids who have toy unboxing videos or Fortnite *shock* videos. It's poor analysis, based on bad players. Just because someone put a frustrated picture of themselves next to basic zone defense doesn't mean they're right.

    The internet's gonna kill me, and it's what I do for a living.
     
  8. CardsSunsDbacks

    CardsSunsDbacks ASFN Contributor Contributor

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    Okay so now it's it's just click bait if it doesn't fit your narrative?

    Regardless my point wasn't to suggest that his opinion was somehow fact, but to show that these things are out there about Manziel. Also this guy does not only do videos of bad players nor are his videos always negative. In no way is his channel just about hot takes and getting clicks. If you take a few minutes to actually watch his videos I think you would recognize just that.
     
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  9. Solar7

    Solar7 Also Skeptical

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    Nope, it's not about narrative. He's got valid points. I'll back off again.
     
  10. Krangthebrain

    Krangthebrain Captain of Team Murray

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    Hes actually been on a small college roster as a QB.

    He has mostly solid takes from what I've seen.
     
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  11. cardpa

    cardpa I'm all right

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    Who are these quality starters you speak of?
     
  12. cardpa

    cardpa I'm all right

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    Failed college coach is what I would call his record. If he was successful he would still be the HC at Texas Tech. 35-40 record in six years at TT. The argument of recruiting kids to TT doesn't hold water as both of his predecessors were wining coaches there, Mike Leach 2000-2009 (84-43) and Tommy Tuberville 2010-2012 (20-17).

    Texas Tech Red Raiders (Big 12 Conference)
    Year Team Overall Conference Standing Bowl/playoffs
    2013 Texas Tech 8–5 4–5 6th W Holiday
    2014 Texas Tech 4–8 2–7 8th
    2015 Texas Tech 7–6 4–5 T–5th L Texas
    2016 Texas Tech 5–7 3–6 T–6th
    2017 Texas Tech 6–7 3–6 8th L Birmingham
    2018 Texas Tech 5–7 3–6 T–7th
    Texas Tech: 35–40 19–35
    Total: 35–40
     
  13. Krangthebrain

    Krangthebrain Captain of Team Murray

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    Mike Leachs offenses took the Big 12 by storm, but I think by the time KK got to TT, the Big 12 had adjusted to the Air Raid and quite a few run a variation of the system themselves.

    By then, KK couldn't just out score running game and defense oriented teams, which is the type of teams Leach faced at Texas Tech.
     
  14. The Kraken

    The Kraken Registered

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    Sweazy and Gilbert, who I am sure are not up to YOUR standards...
     
  15. The Kraken

    The Kraken Registered

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    LOL...If you cannot see that competing with UT, T A&M, Baylor, and TCU (just the Texas schools) isn't problematic, then you need to visit Lubbock. We did, my son looked at TT, he could not see himself on that campus and the surrounding city...it was quickly marked off the list.
     
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