Kyler Murray's Throwing Motion

Discussion in 'Arizona Cardinals' started by Solar7, May 11, 2019.

  1. The Kraken

    The Kraken Registered

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    Solar,

    No one is saying he will NOT have to throw into tight windows, but if you think ANY DC is going to run straight man to man coverage scheme you are crazy.

    If you haven't done any research on how the Air Raid takes advantage of schemes I recommend you do.

    Check out "H Stick", it is a staple of the Air Raid and has been integrated into the NFL for years (it is sometimes "Y" stick). The play is completely predicated on how the defense reacts to the H running a stick route into the softest area determined by the coverage. The play is designed to either flood the zone and the QB throws to the most open man -or- in man, creates match up issues *usually with the RB circling out of the backfield matched up against an LBer.

    I think you are missing a huge point here, yes, OU had a monster team, yes, a lot of those plays were 100% set up by superior athleticism, but the Air Raid's roots were born in smaller schools who did NOT have the athletes to compete with the big schools using a superior concept and exploiting what the D gives.
     
  2. Krangthebrain

    Krangthebrain Captain of Team Murray

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    It's funny but the monster talent argument wasnt used against Mayfield last year, and as the OU fans on here pointed out, Mayfield had even better talent to work with.
     
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  3. Solar7

    Solar7 Also Skeptical

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    I'm not questioning the validity of the Air Raid. I'm questioning how Kyler's YPA is going to translate to the NFL, where Kyler's #1 receiver doesn't have Hollywood Brown speed. Can Kyler out the ball in the right spot for Larry when the corner is running in lockstep with him? That's what I don't know and question.

    Go back and find a thread where I'm gaga for Mayfield. Because you won't. I thought he deserved to be picked as one of the top 4 QBs, but you won't find a thread where I claim he's the best of the bunch. I still think the dude is gonna run into a lot of trouble this year.
     
  4. Chris_Sanders

    Chris_Sanders Super Moderator Contributor

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    And what if he eats pork on Friday?

    What if he drives 5 miles an hour above the speed limit?

    What if he wears clothing worn of two types of materials?

    What if he doesn't eat his meat? How will he get his pudding?

    How did any QB ever go from open receivers in college to the NFL? How do receivers ever get open in the NFL?
     
  5. Krangthebrain

    Krangthebrain Captain of Team Murray

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    And you'll be wrong about Baker again. Dude is going to be a top 5 QB for a long time.

    Watch tape on QBs, dont get caught up in the nonsense
     
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  6. Krangthebrain

    Krangthebrain Captain of Team Murray

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    It takes a bit of looking but there are plenty of throws last year by Murray into tight windows.

    Just like Cardinals receivers are saying now, Murray is really good at ball placement.
     
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  7. Chris_Sanders

    Chris_Sanders Super Moderator Contributor

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    I just hate this debate tactic of "What If?" and suddenly "Success is bad"

    It's taking a conclusion and trying to find suppositions to support it rather than taking questions and trying to find a conclusion.
     
  8. SECTION 11

    SECTION 11 vibraslap

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    Just to complicate matters, it sounds like Rosen’s throwing motion isn’t doing him any good in Miami. Anyway, so yeah.
     
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  9. The Kraken

    The Kraken Registered

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    If you believe in the Air Raid concept, then you believe you scheme players open. There is NOTHING that I have witnessed that would lead me to believe that KM cannot read the play as it develops, make a good decision, and deliver the ball on target.

    Yes, I am sure OU and KM enjoyed Brown streaking past backs on a 9 route, but do not sell our WRs short. Isabella, White (if healthy) have that kind of speed and quickness. Kirk and Fitz are more than capable of getting separation
    either with Kirk's quickness or Larry's technical mastery.

    There is an awful lot to be cautiously optimistic about regarding our offense, of course, there is a lot of risk too, but to wake up every morning with that kind of pessimism is crazy...
     
  10. Solar7

    Solar7 Also Skeptical

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    I've watched enough college tape to be wowed by guys who throw amazing balls in tight windows in the college game. I've watched enough college tape to also see guys throw to wide open receivers and look good for it.

    I don't dislike Baker, I just wasn't enamored with him, and think that team has a lot of superstar talent that could start pointing fingers when things don't gel right. Baker's a passionate guy, which could hurt if OBJ starts going nuts or whatever.

    You can't just "watch tape" in a vacuum. The league is full of ultra-athletic guys who can't cut it mentally once everyone on the field is just as athletic.

    Kyler has left these questions open. I'm asking questions to try to match everyone's hype around here, because it doesn't pop out to me like it does to you guys. Obviously I have too much free time on my hands to keep caring, but I'd love to be on the hype train.

    The only time Kyler's really made the hair on my arms stand up is with that "look at the speed" 63-yard run. That's next level. The other stuff makes me wonder. I just feel like he had it so easy. It's like everyone else on the field is standing out to me when I watch tape of him, and he's just executing where he needs to for them to make plays.
     
  11. Solar7

    Solar7 Also Skeptical

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    After a year where we were the worst team in the league, and I don't think we did a ton to make ourselves better, that pessimism is hard for me to shake. To me, this offseason has had all of the excitement of getting to the car rental place and finding out your rental has been upgraded from a compact to a mid-size.

    ...Okay, cool, I guess?
     
  12. The Kraken

    The Kraken Registered

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    Solar,

    We filled our OL with 2 quality starters, snagged a young guy with LT potential. Completely revamped our WR corps. Upgraded our TE position. Found a quality starter at DE, drafted a high motor/productive youngster at DE, don't sleep on Dogbe either, that kid has a non-stop motor too...swapped Golden for T-Sizzle, legit ILB (with risk WRT injury) committed highway robbery in terms of talent in the defensive backfield, yes losing P2 for 6 games sucks, but we clearly are more talented...

    Wow...I mean besides bringing in HOF'ers, what else could they have done? I think we knocked the draft out of the park and we were smart in free agency.
     
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  13. Solar7

    Solar7 Also Skeptical

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    The OL is still a huge question mark... I'm not going to get too wowed by the additions of the two guys we picked up until they actually stay on the field and play well. Our WR corps is revamped, which I'm happy about, but rookies tend to take 1-2 years to really get it and start to have an impact. I like our moves at DE, don't consider Suggs to be much of an upgrade or reliable for a full season at this age, like the ILB but think we have a huge hole at the other ILB position. Missing P2 will hurt a lot in our most winnable stretch of the season. Plus the defense will take time to adapt to Joseph's system, which is always the case.

    The worst parts of the offseason are the signing of a failed college HC, and the overdrafting of a historically small QB with a limited sample size. Those two elements, removing the exact names from the discussion, would have made everyone turn up their nose in disgust if I had told that to you at any time in your Cardinals fandom.
     
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  14. The Kraken

    The Kraken Registered

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    Solar,

    Those are fair points:

    -I agree, there is a LOT of work to do on the line. I would have loved to sign a young, pro bowl caliber LT...but we didn't, we have a finite cap, we worked well within it. The Air Raid gets the ball out early and we have a QB who can run...hopefully that offsets the overall lack of talent -hopefully the coaching staff can develop this group-

    -Couldn't disagree more on Suggs. Suggs, played in every game last year and was still very productive without being the focal point of the defense. *Suggs 7 sacks in 16 games vs Golden's 2.5 in 11 games...

    -the other ILB is a concern, hopefully Reddick develops.

    -Failed college HC? He had prolific offenses and his QB development has been amazing...Yes, the defense sucked, but you try recruiting kids to come to Lubbock vice the other teams in the Big 12.

    I think we have the right people in place to do something special, if -IF- afforded the time to do it...
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2019
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  15. Solar7

    Solar7 Also Skeptical

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    As far as Suggs goes, I'm excited to have him here. I love the dude. I went to ASU, I've met him, he's a good guy, I just know at some point the wheels are going to fall off. He's had multiple season ending injuries and while he was productive last season, that's in a defense he's been a part of for years. He's 36, will be 37 in October, and most players just don't play at that high of a level at that age. I thought the move was real savvy when I was hoping he'd be a mentor to Nick Bosa and split time at the position. Now if things start to slip, we have... Brooks Reed? And next offseason, that's going to be a gaping hole to replace, where before we had two decent pass rushers on the outside that were reasonably young.

    Like, that's another thing... we're a year away from needing to fill some of the key positions on this roster all over again. LT, OLB, and ILB are going to be major needs next year.

    As far as KK goes... you get fired from your alma mater and don't even get poached from being an NFL OC, but a college OC? The man's never coached a down in the NFL. If he suddenly proves success, this will be a huge outlier. It's not impossible, I like some of his approach, but he doesn't inspire a ton of optimism.
     

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