Kyler Murray in 5 Years

Discussion in 'Arizona Cardinals' started by TJ, May 22, 2019.

Where will Kyler Rank in 5 Years?

  1. Top-5 All-Pro Caliber QB

    29.5%
  2. Top-10 With one or two Pro Bowls

    42.9%
  3. Top-20 Average Starting QB

    7.6%
  4. Journeyman Backup

    6.7%
  5. Mega Bust - Out of the League

    13.3%
  1. Solar7

    Solar7 Also Skeptical

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    We'll see man, we'll see. This was an epically unique situation, and I hope you're prepared to see the "it can get worse" side of things. I hope I'm wrong. I have no interest in watching another season of worthless football. But outside of this board, I pretty much only hear bad things about the Cards.
     
  2. Solar7

    Solar7 Also Skeptical

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    I meant to reply to this earlier... but K9 said most of what I needed to say about the comp to Vick. The thing I really need to point out, which keeps getting overlooked, is that there's a sweet spot for height in the NFL at the QB position. Most guys that are 6'5+ don't succeed, just like most guys sub 6'0 don't succeed. No one is saying the taller the better. 6'2-6'4 seems to be about where you want to be.

    Back to K9's thoughts, or yours about Vick... Vick didn't do much of anything. If Kyler wins us two playoff games and then is on another team or in another sport, that's a failure in my eyes. For the investment we've made in this kid, the sheer risk of it all, he'd better quickly ascend to one of the top spots in the NFL, with the wins and year-in-year-out championship potential to back it up. And no full seasons lost due to breaking a leg while running, either.

    I'm mostly mad about it because this kid is gonna get a super long leash that prevents us from making changes at the position, all while we're not a very talented team.
     
  3. Delmar M Lewis

    Delmar M Lewis Registered

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    Interesting
    Jamarcus was brought up as I'm sure Oakland would live to have that selection back So would San Diego with the Ryan Leaf selection as would a whole bunch of other teams.
    It just seems the Cards are snake bitten with any selection they make especially in the QB market
     
  4. NJCardFan

    NJCardFan Registered

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    Colts didn't even try that year. Their QB's were Dan Olovsky, Curtis Painter, and an over the hill Kerry Collins. Hey, it worked out for them. They took a risk and it's paid off for the most part.

    The one thing being overlooked is that Murray only had 1 season as a starter in college. And, yes, he played well. Same with Trubisky. So in reality we really don't know what we have in this kid.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
  5. BW52

    BW52 Registered

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    Journeyman backup or trying to play OF for Oakland A`s.Hell yes I hate the pick and detest it more every day.
     
  6. Solar7

    Solar7 Also Skeptical

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    What was that team supposed to do? Trade for an elite QB? I'm not saying they pulled out all the stops to be the best team in the league that year, but the notion that they just walked out to the team and said "hey we're tanking for Luck now" is absurd. Remember, they had just franchised Peyton that offseason, and gave him a new 5-year, 90 million dollar contract... plus they didn't even place the guy on IR for a large chunk of the season. They thought he was playing.

    That's not tanking to me.
     
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  7. kerouac9

    kerouac9 #Stiff4Kliff

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    Gah. I really disagree with this. Vick was transcendent in his first few years in the NFL. His second season felt like he could legitimately remake the NFL and no one could touch him. He was the first QB to beat Farve in Lambeau when the temps were below freezing.

    Vick was left-handed, could run like the wind, and had an absolute howitzer on his shoulder. The question was how to harness that raw material into a professional QB for the long term, and the NFL wasn't really ready for it. The best/only idea that people had was to give him a former 49ers coach and talk about Steve Young.

    He laid the foundation for how Shanahan integrated RG3 into the pro game, and how guys like Deshaun Watson and Patrick Mahomes are installed. Now, part of the reason that he was a disappointment was because he probably didn't do all the work he could've done to advocate for himself and get the offense off the ground.

    So... wait. Are you saying that the Colts were ACTUALLY GOOD, but they just didn't try in 2011? I think we can all agree that Curtis Painter is bad, but that team was built around Manning's unique talents, and when you replace him with a replacement-level QB (like Orlovsky) then you're going to win 5 games.
     
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  8. Ouchie-Z-Clown

    Ouchie-Z-Clown I'm better than Mulli!

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    Find me five articles with the phrase “huge gamble” for Winston predraft. That’s just complete revisionist history if not a total lie. You’re better than that k9. Winston was a consensus #1 pick. His only knock was his maturity which every single team would’ve been willing to overlook with the opportunity to draft him.

    I never said a word about Mariota but now that you brought him up, there were very few comments to the negative in him too. He was certainly not viewed as a “huge gamble.”
     
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  9. Ouchie-Z-Clown

    Ouchie-Z-Clown I'm better than Mulli!

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    That must be from people you talk to because almost every publication I’ve read people are really positive about the direction of the cardinals.
     
  10. Solar7

    Solar7 Also Skeptical

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    I mean, trust me, I was tantalized by Vick at the time. The year you're talking about was really special, and I remember the time he split those Vikings defenders in OT - a moment in time where my dad looked at each other and both admitted he was the future of the NFL.

    But the overall story, the history of how things panned out, shows a huge cautionary tale. He really only won 9 games in that first full season, he cost Dan Reeves his job, he cost Jim Mora his job (although not really a great coach). The highlights were spectacular, but the reality was that only one year did it actually come together in a meaningful way, and even that was only an 11 win season. The guy just plainly didn't turn them into a dominant team, despite being pretty fun to watch.

    Murray's tenure here will be pretty unspectacular if he has a total of two winning seasons.
     
  11. Krangthebrain

    Krangthebrain Captain of Team Murray

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    Jamarcus Russell is NOTHING like Murray. Nothing. They are both black and that's it.

    Russell's issue is that he was ghetto. He did drugs.
     
  12. kerouac9

    kerouac9 #Stiff4Kliff

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    Winston was a consensus #1 pick because the Bucs had made it clear they were taking a QB and it came down to those two guys. Von Miller could've (and probably should've, even though I was skeptical about his size) been the #1 overall selection, and Patrick Peterson was in the mix as well.

    I put Winston in the same class as a prospect as Jared Goff — best quarterback in the class, and so taken #1 overall, but he doesn't stack up as a prospect to Eli and Andrew Luck (or Michael Vick).

    http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2015/s...nston-biggest-gamble-modern-nfl-draft-history

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ng-winston-in-nfl-draft-idUSKBN0NK2BK20150430

    https://deadspin.com/nfl-exec-drafting-jameis-winston-will-be-a-horrible-m-1700023804

    https://nflmocks.com/2014/10/20/2015-nfl-draft-will-take-jameis-winston-plunge/

    https://www.thehuddlereport.com/archive/2015profiles/Jameis.Winston.htm
     
  13. Krangthebrain

    Krangthebrain Captain of Team Murray

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    Yeah I don't see where he is getting the "huge gamble" idea. Winston and Mariota were both viewed as potential franchise guys with some questions whether that would come to fruition.

    I don't think Tampa nor Tennessee would take back those picks even knowing what they know now.
     
  14. Solar7

    Solar7 Also Skeptical

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    ESPN Power Rankings: http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...-rankings-projected-wins-playoff-chances-1-32
    Second to last.

    Cardinals projected winless season: https://cardswire.usatoday.com/2019/04/22/nfl-win-loss-predictions-az-arizona-cardinals-winless/

    Here's a great compilation of bad press: https://www.revengeofthebirds.com/2...the-expectations-for-the-cardinals-be-in-2019

    Sure, I've seen that we'll have the "most impactful" rookie class, but that's because we're such a bad team that there's guys into the 5th round that might see significant playing time for us.
     
  15. Krangthebrain

    Krangthebrain Captain of Team Murray

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    Peterson and Miller were in a different class than Winston....they were in Cam Newton's class.
     
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