Kyler Murray in 5 Years

Discussion in 'Arizona Cardinals' started by TJ, May 22, 2019.

Where will Kyler Rank in 5 Years?

  1. Top-5 All-Pro Caliber QB

    29.5%
  2. Top-10 With one or two Pro Bowls

    42.9%
  3. Top-20 Average Starting QB

    7.6%
  4. Journeyman Backup

    6.7%
  5. Mega Bust - Out of the League

    13.3%
  1. Solar7

    Solar7 Also Skeptical

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    Yes, I do. Less than 7 shorter QBs have thrown an NFL pass than Russell Wilson have thrown a pass since the merger. It is a factor. I know you're going to just keep sticking your fingers in your ears and saying 'I can't hear you,' but there isn't a conspiracy against poor unfortunate short QBs. Mayfield isn't tiny, and isn't a valid defense of your argument. Murray is historically short.
     
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  2. CardsSunsDbacks

    CardsSunsDbacks ASFN Contributor Contributor

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    He is actually about 2" shorter than Mayfield and 1" shorter than Wilson. The fact that you think there is some magical number between 5'10" and 5'11" that make it so unlikely for Murray to succeed is just laughable to me.
     
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  3. Solar7

    Solar7 Also Skeptical

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    You edited your post after I already replied. Yes, I think it matters. I think successful 6'0 QBs are extreme outliers, and I know that Kyler is even tinier. It really, really does matter.

    Maybe Kyler's other gifts have enough merit to make up for this. Maybe. But it matters. It is a factor to questioning him, no matter how much you keep telling me it doesn't matter because you have decided it doesn't.
     
  4. Solar7

    Solar7 Also Skeptical

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    You don't get it, and still don't get it. It's insanely frustrating.

    I think there is a HUGE difference between 5'11 and 6'2. I think that the evidence that it has worked out for exactly ONE dude, does not make it a sudden truth that it will work for all guys. You're ignoring essentially all measurables and just saying Kyler overcomes them for reasons. You know why you're ignoring all measurables? Because besides his height, Kyler did nothing else but stand on a scale once, so you can't even quantify it.
     
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  5. Krangthebrain

    Krangthebrain Captain of Team Murray

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    Yep it's crazy. Solar has this strange idea that someone who is 6'2 can see over someone who is 6'5.

    QBs dont see over the line, they see around the line. You know....like the spaces between linemen. That's what Kurt Warner said.

    I made this same stupid argument until I realized its ********. It's like believing that you get sick if you walk around on a cold day when your head is wet. It's a myth.
     
  6. Krangthebrain

    Krangthebrain Captain of Team Murray

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    No it's called a bias.

    Did you know that Americans believed Japanese couldn't fly planes well before Pearl Harbor because of their slanted eyes?
     
  7. Krangthebrain

    Krangthebrain Captain of Team Murray

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    Uh no it's not. Wilson is a better player....and he doesnt miss tons of time due to injuries....and hes been to two Super Bowls....
     
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  8. gamebird98

    gamebird98 Registered

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    "Where will Kyler Rank in 5 Years?"

    5' 11"?
     
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  9. slanidrac16

    slanidrac16 Registered User Contributor

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    Yes he is . But you cannot compare era’s. A short immobile qb would not have a chance in any era. The game has change Solar. You know that. As I mentioned in another thread take the time and pull up some tape on Mahomes. His mobility allows him to extend plays that totally negates height. Murray is quicker and just as accurate as Mahomes. Many plays it wouldn’t matter if Mahomes was 5’1” tall.

    Kingsbury is not going to make Murray sit in the pocket play after play. That would be foolish and very much under utilising his ability. The age of “I’ll meet you at the quarterback” are over my friend. This offense is going to make defenses worry about containing rather than all out attacking.
     
  10. CardsSunsDbacks

    CardsSunsDbacks ASFN Contributor Contributor

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    Exactly one dude? There has been more than one dude that has been successful while being short. The fact that you don't seem to acknowledge that is pretty frustrating. Wilson is 1" taller and makes a large percentage of his throws from the pocket, Brees 2" taller and is a pure pocket passer, Mayfield 2" taller and makes a high percentage of his throws from the pocket, Sonny Jurgenson 1" taller and was one of the better QBs from the 60s-70s, Theisman was 2" taller and was quite good in the early to mid 80s.

    I believe that if you are going to be a stationary drop back type QB that is running a lot of 3 step drops than being 5'10" might be tough, but if you are utilized in a lot of shotgun and 5-7 step drops than being 5'10" isn't going to be much of factor in the end. That is how guys like Mayfield, Brees and Wilson are being utilized in this day and age (and how Murray will be utilized) and that is a big part of why they can be successful despite being quite a bit smaller than the prototypical 6'3" - 6'5" NFL QB.
     
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  11. Crimson Warrior

    Crimson Warrior Dangerous Murray Zealot

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    Of course you're right here Krang. You look at each players production over their careers, and its not very close.

    If you're point is that, "with hindsight, who would you pick, Luck or Wilson?". Of course the answer is Wilson.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2019
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  12. Crimson Warrior

    Crimson Warrior Dangerous Murray Zealot

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    Everyone Solar7, everyone sir, concedes that there is some correlation between height, and success as an NFL QB.

    Ceteris Paribus, a guy who is 6' 2" has a better chance than a guy who is 5' 10" of being successful as a QB in the NFL (how much better is debatable, but at least a marginally better chance).

    Okay? Can you acknowledge that I agree with you on this point?

    But then will you also please concede that Wilson sets a precedent for Murray to be successful? That's all that CardsDbacksSuns, Slanidrac16 and Krang are asking from you in this thread sir. We can then (mercifully) move on to other issues.
     
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  13. Krangthebrain

    Krangthebrain Captain of Team Murray

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    What's lost in all these comparisons to other short QBs of the past is that Murray is a top
    1% athlete.

    That's why, with his elite passing ability he has a chance to be great.

    If he were 6'5, he would be the best QB prospect EVER to come out. Ever. Ever.
     
  14. Crimson Warrior

    Crimson Warrior Dangerous Murray Zealot

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    Alright, good post. You have a much more reasonable approach than Solar7.

    First bolded - Well that's the heart of the matter isn't BW52? You've hit the nail on the head so to speak. Here's what I think - 60% chance Murray is equal to RW, 15% chance Murray is better than RW, and 25% chance that Kyler is worse than RW. I hope you perceive that as reasonable, even if you disagree, and I'd like your breakdown as well please sir.

    Second bolded - agree 100%, and its why its so rare that you see video-game-like performances on Sunday. The 11 defenders across the line from a pro QB are (for the most part) physically and mentally ultra-elite in terms of football skills. And they're not playing for a scholarship. They're playing for their livelihood. To feed their kids, and pay for their wife's bull*hit spending. :) That's a scary combination, and Murray has his work cut out for him.

    Third bolded - disagree that its "meaningless" sir. While Murray's success in college certainly, certainly doesn't guarantee success at the pro level, it still indicates that, if given the right opportunity, the right set of circumstances, he can function at an elite level as a QB. It's good to know it's at least possible that Murray can dominate a game. Not saying it's critical BW52, just saying it's not meaningless.

    Fourth bolded - remember I said slightly more athletic and talented. :) IMHO, Murray is a little faster than RW. A little more shifty (i.e. a better runner). I think he also has a slightly better arm, and throws on the run a little better that Wilson. However, this part is just my opinion, and only based on my uneducated observations.

    Fifth bolded - you're right, and I'll probably be disappointed when doesn't dominate DET like he did TCU. Trying to get myself ready for his first three-interception game. There is certainly one on the horizon.

    Sixth bolded - We're just trying to be realistic BW52. Trying to set up a fair set of expectations by which to judge Murray's performance this year. It's true that I will probably be one of the last ones off the bandwagon if Murray crashes and burns, but I love the Cardinals more than I love any single player, and won't hesitate to say he should be benched if he deserves it.

    Seventh bolded - I feel pretty bad for Rosen. But I'm glad he has another opportunity, and I wish him well (unless he's playing us).

    Thanks, looks forward to hearing from you on the first bolded issue, and hope you and yours have a good memorial day weekend.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2019
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  15. Crimson Warrior

    Crimson Warrior Dangerous Murray Zealot

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    Right?

    Nobody is saying that Murray isn't bucking the trend. We get it. Being 5' 10" is a liability.

    But he does everything else at an all-world level.
     
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