Kyler Murray Debate Thread

[PDXChris]

I don’t think you have that right. If they trade him (according to overthecap) they have $30MM in dead money vs a $43MM 2025 cap hold. They’d save $14MM against the cap, but we’d be treated to Jacoby Brissett for the next 12 games and The Great Unknown for 2026.

You're right, I had cut, not trade selected. Someone needs to create a NFL trade machine to make it less complicated up figure out.

 

[oaken1]

I only see 33 million to the team that trades for him, assuming the cards pay that 17 mil bonus due on the fifth day of the leagues new year.

His cap hit for the cards next year is 53 mil. So if you take that 17 mil and the 3+ mil signing bonus he's already been paid a new team should be on the hook for 33+ mil next year and take responsibility for 43+ mil cap hit in 2027 as the signing bonus will have all been accounted for. Then they would owe him 19 mil if they cut him. Either way if he earns everything in the contract new team should be responsible for 76+ mil.

If we trade him prior to day 1 of the league year the new team can work a new deal...it can be very favorable, his current deal is worst case...no reason kyler wouldn't sign a deal/restructure that accelerates cash to clear cap space for his new team....

 

[Russ Smith]

Ben Allbright
- Coaches feel its more of an execution issue. Admittingly sequencing on play calls and predictable 2nd down runs havent been great. However, there is nothing wrong with the play design.
- Klayton Adams actually splits play calling in Dallas.
- Coaches also feel they dont have the players to truly run the offense the way they'd like.

"Is this a Kyler Murray in this offense problem, is this an offensive coordinator with Kyler Murray problem or is this a Kyler Murray problem? Like with Russell in Denver the coaches are coming around that there are limitations to him"

Kliff came from college and he was more malleable. Drew just how the west coast offense is supposed to be run.

Will update later.

Wait so our offense is supposed to be the West Coast Offense?

When did Bill Walsh play 2 and 3 TEs?

 

[SoonerLou]

All signs point to it being a Kyler problem. He doesn't play on time. He will never be comfortable in a pocket. He's not a leader. According to Klayton Adams, he doesn't even want to do designed runs, because he's terrified of contact. His mental limitations are too great to overcome in seemingly any offense. There's a reason the team didn't put the ball in his hands with the game on the line.

Ben is in Denver and elaborated on the Sean Payton/Russ comparison.

-Coaches know they are running too much on 2nd and long but they are doing that because they want to avoid 3rd and long.

- Sean Payton would see Russ struggle for 3 Qrts and then suddenly go tempo in the 4th Qrt and things would work out. West coast coaches want predictability on offense. Not a predictable offense, but know what their QB is going to do. However, with QBs like Kyler there is a high variance and that is tough for coaches with west coast backgrounds.

 

[SoonerLou]

Wait so our offense is supposed to be the West Coast Offense?

When did Bill Walsh play 2 and 3 TEs?

As he said there are variations, but the concepts are still the same.

I think Ben is underrating the gap in creating from guys like Shanahan and McVay from Drew though.

 

[DaHilg]

My guess is after the season Gannon will be told he has to fire Petzing, and that they're moving on from Kyler. My guess is we'll try to trade Kyler for picks not players but who knows. If you're looking around teams likely to be looking for a QB are the Jets, Browns and Steelers for sure. Browns took 2 QB's this draft so they might not make sense but my gut says neither Gabriel or Sanders are their guy so I am guessing they will take a look at Kyler. I don't think Kyler is Pittsburghs kind of QB. I can see the jets having interest but the Jets are going to have a VERY high pick so they may just draft someone.

I don't think Gannon hates Kyler but he's not going to give up an NFL coaching job if told he has to get rid of Kyler, but I think he probably would tell Stefanski he's better 80 year old Flacco or the 2 rookies you picked so Cleveland MIGHT have interest.

I don't think there's going to be a huge interest in Kyler I think lots of teams filled their QB spots in recent years but I haven't sat there and gone team by team

Kyler is not going to Cleveland - no way would they trade for him after the guy from Cleveland couldn’t make it work. Makes zero sense

 

[WisconsinCard]

If we trade him prior to day 1 of the league year the new team can work a new deal...it can be very favorable, his current deal is worst case...no reason kyler wouldn't sign a deal/restructure that accelerates cash to clear cap space for his new team....

Of course they can do whatever they want to after they aquire him. That wasn't what we were discussing though. We were talking about what a new team would be on the hook for under his current contract, and how that affects his trade value.

 

[BritCard]

Give me 5 examples of a starting QB on a contract like Kyler has being traded and what they got. You can't because it rarely happens. Darnold was traded after 3 seasons, the third of which was the worst of his 3 years. They literally traded him to make room for Zach Wilson, that's how little the Jets thought of him, and they still got a 3rd.

If Murray doesn't completely meltdown the rest of this year the Cards will be able to trade him but how he does the rest of the year will determine what we get in exchange. Acting like anybody knows in early october what that value is, is just wrong. Nobody knows.

The situation the Cardinals have put themselves in is rare. A QB that has never done anything of note getting paid what he does and then the team wanting to get out of it is something pretty unique.

But there are some similarities we can pull from other trades. The Mayfield trade was a conditional 5th. His team were sellers, having already traded for Watson, that weakened their position. And Mayfield was younger with more untapped potential.

Kyler's situation is far closer to Brock Osweiler than any of these, where the Texans had to pay to get rid of his contract. I'm not saying he's Osweiler, but the situation is closer to that than say, the trade of Alex Smith from the Chiefs to Washington which was for a 3rd. Smith had a long track record of winning and was a proven NFL QB.

 

[BritCard]

The Vikes

I don't know how people think the Vikes are nuts enough to give up draft capital for a failed vet QB with one terrible playoff experience and a losing record that couldn't connect consistently with his WR's at any point in his career outside of D hop.

Nothing about them indicates that's the type of move they would make.

 

[BritCard]

No it’s not. Kyler’s due $42.5 MM in cash next year and $36.3MM in 2027. Only $17mm of that 2027 is guaranteed in 2026.

Depends if the new team takes on the roster bonus or not. If they do it's $62m with the game bonuses.

 

[BritCard]

My prediction we trade Kyler to Minnesota for McCarthy. We then trade for Shedeur. And I leave the country (-:

I think the Vikes are a longshot for the same reason. How bad would it look to trade for a new QB after letting Darnold walk because they thought JJ was the guy. Another year maybe but now now.

But apparently JJ is back in the lineup now Wentz is out

Why would the Cards trade for a QB that KOC thinks he can't make work?

That's like buying a renovation project from Chip Gaines.

 

[BritCard]

Ben is in Denver and elaborated on the Sean Payton/Russ comparison.

-Coaches know they are running too much on 2nd and long but they are doing that because they want to avoid 3rd and long.

- Sean Payton would see Russ struggle for 3 Qrts and then suddenly go tempo in the 4th Qrt and things would work out. West coast coaches want predictability on offense. Not a predictable offense, but know what their QB is going to do. However, with QBs like Kyler there is a high variance and that is tough for coaches with west coast backgrounds.

All OC's want a QB that can execute the plan. Especially when the plan works and the guys that are supposed to be open are open, and just aren't being hit. It must be extremely frustrating to see drive after drive killed because your QB throws a wayward pass or checks it down for 3 when there's a guy open for 15.

Ultimately I think the staff need to say screw it. They are losing trying to manage Kyler's limitations, take the shackles off and put it in Kyler's hands and let the offense fail or succeed based on what Kyler does.

There's nothing to lose for them now. Expose Kyler, put 2nd and longs and 3rd and longs in his hands. Stop trying to manage his flaws.

 

[BritCard]

Allbright video here

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[Stout]

Seeing that live my first thought was "WTF kyler?"
It gave the impression of a guy who wanted to stay clear of the scrum but give the impression he was trying...it looked to be an obvious flop...seeing it again doesn't really shed light on anything to change that impression

If that's the play he hurt himself on and it turns out to be a significant injury, good riddance. He couldn't do anything about the ball doinking off his head, but the bitch move "Oh, I really am trying to get to the ball" BS was disgusting.

 

[BritCard]

If that's the play he hurt himself on and it turns out to be a significant injury, good riddance. He couldn't do anything about the ball doinking off his head, but the bitch move "Oh, I really am trying to get to the ball" BS was disgusting.

I think the locker room visit was more from embarrassment than physical injury

 

[AZ Fan]

HotnCold Murray may not be good but his agent is $$$

 

[schutd]

It seems that there are critics who actually think that Kyler has the same birds-eye perspective they use to assess his play.

This is one of the cope-y-est posts Ive ever read. The dudes been playing football his entire life and is getting paid 45M/year to find open receivers. Its his job.

 

[602 Native]

Can’t wait for our next QB to improve us into the top 10.

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[Chopper0080]

Seeing that live my first thought was "WTF kyler?"
It gave the impression of a guy who wanted to stay clear of the scrum but give the impression he was trying...it looked to be an obvious flop...seeing it again doesn't really shed light on anything to change that impression

We will disagree. Kyler wasn’t looking for the snap. Then got donked in the head, and took a couple seconds to process what happened and locate the ball. That’s how it looked to me.

 

[Chopper0080]

Allbright video here

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The Allbright section is good to see an unbiased perspective and have an idea of what a Kyler market looks like. I disagree Brit about your financial concerns. It’s not the albatross you are implying it is. Ultimately compensation will be tied to demand. The more teams who are interested in Kyler, the higher the compensation will be.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

I'm not saying he's Osweiler

No, Brock is nearly a foot taller and has won a playoff game in the league. No comparison.

 

[Chopper0080]

No, Brock is nearly a foot taller and has won a playoff game in the league. No comparison.

It’s worth remembering that defensive coaches love the idea of Kyler because they struggle to scheme to control his chaos. Offensive coaches know the trade off isn’t worth it.

 

[SoonerLou]

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[SoonerLou]

It’s worth remembering that defensive coaches love the idea of Kyler because they struggle to scheme to control his chaos. Offensive coaches know the trade off isn’t worth it.

I kinda was hyped on JG because he was a fan of Kyler. However, yea it didnt seem like his plan was well thought out on how to make it work. It was more just how tough it was for JG to defend him when he had the Eagles defense.

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[BirdGangThing]

I was half joking about purdy yesterday but if mac jones is for real he cost 12 million and purdy cost 250 million - they've done this before