Kyler Murray Debate Thread

[BirdGangThing]

kyler is officially on record infront of cameras placing it on playcall - petzing hasn't trusted kyler with the win in the 4th quarter for 2 of the 3 losses - and that's because we were playing from behind in one (kyler threw for 2 tds)

kyler might feel some kind of way right now and honestly i wouldn't blame him (his play aside of course)

gannon sided with and made excuses for petzing again and at the same time said "it doesn't matter if you're a number one pick"

that's brutal - and im not a kyler coddler - his offensive coordinator calls the useless run play on a 3rd down instead of playing to win the game - again - and made it to where kyler couldn't audible

play fails - game is lost - kyler is back infront of the podium being asked why he lost - again - surely he thinks gannon will have his back this time - right?

more like yeah right - gannon tripled down on publicly trusting drew petzing who doesn't trust kyler murray

it's ok for me and you not to trust kyler murray but we're not our offensive coordinator... and to trust carter and knight 5 times in a row with no room for murray to run or throw?

now gannon has to bridge this divide between a pissed off kyler murray and the forever shrinking shriveled petzing (who is likely incapable of being pissed off)

 

[Chopper0080]

I don't think so. If they trade him the cards will have to pay that 17 million roster bonus due right when the new league year starts. I think the new team would only be on the hook for around 60 mil. But they could cut him without any dead money. And quite possibly they could get a third round pick for him. But you're basically paying for that high of pick paying the roster bonus.

Can any of the cap guru's tell me if this is correct?

I believe the Cardinals would eat the 3.5 mil in remaining signing bonus, the 2026 17 mil roster bonus depedning on the timing of the trade, and then the 7.2 mil of the prorated option. I think the roster bonus would still factor into the receiving team's cap hit tho. This is an instance where I believe the cash hit and cap hit are a little different.

Also, for the receiving team, on 3/22/26 $19.5 mil of Kyler's 2027 contract becomes guaranteed.

To finish this...I believe the receiving team's cap hit in acquiring Kyler would be $42,542,500, 2026 cap number 53,260,677 less the 10,718,177 in prorated bonuses.

EDIT: If @WisconsinCard is correct, it would drop the acquiring team's 2026 cap hit from 42,542,500 to 25,542,500. There is also guaranteed money in 2027 as stated above. 2028 would be a free and clear out year.

 

[Chopper0080]

Why it would be the epitome of tanking. Which I have never advocated for, but this might be the year. If we can't beat the worst teams in the league? Well any of you can add the answer

Ever since Monti was hired I have been on the side of this organization needing to win games, and as many as possible. This doesn't change my thinking.

 

[WisconsinCard]

I believe the Cardinals would eat the 3.5 mil in remaining signing bonus, the 2026 17 mil roster bonus depedning on the timing of the trade, and then the 7.2 mil of the prorated option. I think the roster bonus would still factor into the receiving team's cap hit tho. This is an instance where I believe the cash hit and cap hit are a little different.

Also, for the receiving team, on 3/22/26 $19.5 mil of Kyler's 2027 contract becomes guaranteed.

To finish this...I believe the receiving team's cap hit in acquiring Kyler would be $42,542,500, 2026 cap number 53,260,677 less the 10,718,177 in prorated bonuses.

If that 17 mil is due the first day of the New Year, wouldn't the cards be in the hook for that. I assume he wouldn't be traded until then. Or it would be a condition of the trade.

 

[HairZach]

List of QBs and their private coaches during the offseason.

You must be registered for see images attach

I think Kyler still uses his dad, who to be fair was a legitimate private coach. But besides Kyler, Kevin Murray only coached high schoolers.

 

[BritCard]

I don't think so. If they trade him the cards will have to pay that 17 million roster bonus due right when the new league year starts. I think the new team would only be on the hook for around 60 mil. But they could cut him without any dead money. And quite possibly they could get a third round pick for him. But you're basically paying for that high of pick paying the roster bonus.

Can any of the cap guru's tell me if this is correct?

It's not just roster bonus. At the start of the new league year it locks in $19.5m guaranteed base salary for 2027. A new team is taking on $62m for a single year.

Mike can agree to pay some or all of this to get a trade done but it's going to be ugly. And even then the best is likely to be 1 year and $42m for a new team. Not something I'd give a 3rd for.

I'd think a 4th, or a 5th, and a 5th for a 6th.

 

[Russ Smith]

I had to google it but Jets traded Darnold to Carolina after year 3 got a 2nd a 4th and a 6th. Darnold was coming off a year of 59.6% 9 TD 11 picks, his worst of his 3 seasons with the Jets. So selling at his absolute lowpoint they got a 2nd. The Vikings let him go as a FA and Seattle signed him. Seattle got a 3rd for Geno Smith to the Raiders and then signed Darnold. Smith was coming off a good year.

So it really depends how Kyler finishes up the year but a 2nd or 3rd at his age is certainly possible, remember Smith was 33 when he brought back a 3rd.

You can't just directly compare though because of course Kylers market value is dependent on the actual market. Who needs a QB and are they not in a position to just draft one.

I think we can get SOMETHING, it's not clear what yet because we don't know how he finishes up the year.

 

[BritCard]

List of QBs and their private coaches during the offseason.

You must be registered for see images attach

I think Kyler still uses his dad, who is a legitimate private coach. But besides Kyler, Kevin Murray only coaches high schoolers.

Kyler's Dad is not a legit private coach. He's only ever trained school kids and from what I can see hasn't coached anyone for at least 10 years.

His website looks like it was made by AOL in 2002.

 

[602 Native]

I had to google it but Jets traded Darnold to Carolina after year 3 got a 2nd a 4th and a 6th. Darnold was coming off a year of 59.6% 9 TD 11 picks, his worst of his 3 seasons with the Jets. So selling at his absolute lowpoint they got a 2nd. The Vikings let him go as a FA and Seattle signed him. Seattle got a 3rd for Geno Smith to the Raiders and then signed Darnold. Smith was coming off a good year.

So it really depends how Kyler finishes up the year but a 2nd or 3rd at his age is certainly possible, remember Smith was 33 when he brought back a 3rd.

You can't just directly compare though because of course Kylers market value is dependent on the actual market. Who needs a QB and are they not in a position to just draft one.

I think we can get SOMETHING, it's not clear what yet because we don't know how he finishes up the year.

You mean Brit Card doesn't have a clue what he is talking about?

I am shocked!

 

[BritCard]

I had to google it but Jets traded Darnold to Carolina after year 3 got a 2nd a 4th and a 6th. Darnold was coming off a year of 59.6% 9 TD 11 picks, his worst of his 3 seasons with the Jets. So selling at his absolute lowpoint they got a 2nd. The Vikings let him go as a FA and Seattle signed him. Seattle got a 3rd for Geno Smith to the Raiders and then signed Darnold. Smith was coming off a good year.

So it really depends how Kyler finishes up the year but a 2nd or 3rd at his age is certainly possible, remember Smith was 33 when he brought back a 3rd.

You can't just directly compare though because of course Kylers market value is dependent on the actual market. Who needs a QB and are they not in a position to just draft one.

I think we can get SOMETHING, it's not clear what yet because we don't know how he finishes up the year.

Darnold was 23, not 28, and on a rookie deal costing about $10m a year.

 

[Ronin]

Why Arizona Cardinals' trust in Kyler Murray matters most

Jonathan Gannon said he and offensive coordinator Drew Petzing trust quarterback Kyler Murray despite choosing to run the ball three times in their final possession of Sunday's loss to the Tennessee Titans. Bickley & Marotta take a closer look at the team's final possession and why trusting...

arizonasports.com

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Why it would be the epitome of tanking. Which I have never advocated for, but this might be the year. If we can't beat the worst teams in the league? Well any of you can add the answer

WE JUST TANKED 2 SEASONS IN A ROW!!! Aren't you supposed to have a good run before tanking again?

 

[Russ Smith]

You mean Brit Card doesn't have a clue what he is talking about?

I am shocked!

No I'm not saying that I'm saying I don't think we can know today what we can get for Kyler because it depends almost entirely on how his year ends up. Say he has a foot injury and goes on IR, trade value goes down if you weren't already concerned about his durability that would make you concerned.

If you just multiply out 17 games he's looking at just over 3000 yards 21 TD's 10 picks 6 YPA. The YPA number is terrible. He's 28 same age as Darnold but Darnold was traded when he was 24. And Darnold to my knowledge has no major injury history Kyler had an ACL torn.

We SHOULD get something but we have no idea what because we don't know what happens the last 12 games

 

[Russ Smith]

Darnold was 23, not 28, and on a rookie deal costing about $10m a year.

23 going to be 24 but yes I just said that in another post. He also had no major injury. But they are the same age, after 3 years there wasn't a team in the league that thought Sam Darnold was better than Kyler. He is now, but at the point of his trade not even close. Darnold was on the way down not up at that point, so is Kyler.

I'm sure the contract matters somewhat yes but I don't think it's as big a deal as it used to be

The big issue is how Kyler finishes the year. If he "fights back" and plays well his market value goes up, if he just turtles, market value goes down.

 

[krazy2k]

No I'm not saying that I'm saying I don't think we can know today what we can get for Kyler because it depends almost entirely on how his year ends up. Say he has a foot injury and goes on IR, trade value goes down if you weren't already concerned about his durability that would make you concerned.

If you just multiply out 17 games he's looking at just over 3000 yards 21 TD's 10 picks 6 YPA. The YPA number is terrible. He's 28 same age as Darnold but Darnold was traded when he was 24. And Darnold to my knowledge has no major injury history Kyler had an ACL torn.

We SHOULD get something but we have no idea what because we don't know what happens the last 12 games

12 losses?

 

[BirdGangThing]

23 going to be 24 but yes I just said that in another post. He also had no major injury. But they are the same age, after 3 years there wasn't a team in the league that thought Sam Darnold was better than Kyler. He is now, but at the point of his trade not even close. Darnold was on the way down not up at that point, so is Kyler.

I'm sure the contract matters somewhat yes but I don't think it's as big a deal as it used to be

The big issue is how Kyler finishes the year. If he "fights back" and plays well his market value goes up, if he just turtles, market value goes down.

we chose petzing over showcasing kyler pre-trade

 

[WisconsinCard]

It's not just roster bonus. At the start of the new league year it locks in $19.5m guaranteed base salary for 2027. A new team is taking on $62m for a single year.

Mike can agree to pay some or all of this to get a trade done but it's going to be ugly. And even then the best is likely to be 1 year and $42m for a new team. Not something I'd give a 3rd for.

I'd think a 4th, or a 5th, and a 5th for a 6th.

I only see 33 million to the team that trades for him, assuming the cards pay that 17 mil bonus due on the fifth day of the leagues new year.

His cap hit for the cards next year is 53 mil. So if you take that 17 mil and the 3+ mil signing bonus he's already been paid a new team should be on the hook for 33+ mil next year and take responsibility for 43+ mil cap hit in 2027 as the signing bonus will have all been accounted for. Then they would owe him 19 mil if they cut him. Either way if he earns everything in the contract new team should be responsible for 76+ mil.

 

[WisconsinCard]

WE JUST TANKED 2 SEASONS IN A ROW!!! Aren't you supposed to have a good run before tanking again?

Why are you yelling?

Well we are the history making Cardinals, so....

 

[Russ Smith]

12 losses?

I doubt it but it wouldn't shock me.

I'm still very much pissed at the coaching staff and the way they handled the disastrous game. It's not at all clear to me what happens.

Last week the Wills Hernandez and Johnson played coming back from injury as did several other guys, Burke for example. At a certain point you start to see guys decide to sit out a game in those situations. We're probably not there yet although PJJ sitting a game with a knee that came out of nowhere got me wondering, he's back playing so I assume it was real.

But if things continue to go south, entirely possible we see Kyler sit with the foot, or other guys sit and then the team drops off a cliff.

 

[SoonerLou]

we chose petzing over showcasing kyler pre-trade

Im still in awe they decided to run everything back. Something needed to change. This feels like such a wasted season already. Trade Kyler or bring in another OC. Sad part is JG was determined for Terrell to be next in line and even he doesnt trust that.

You really need to start reading my posts in more detail. lol

I also hate the composition of the offensive staff, especially as it pertains to QB development and resources.

Yea I wonder how Monti thought going with so much inexperience/youth would work for them.

Yes, the Eagles did it. However, the Eagles had massive building blocks in place already. They shoud have had more experienced coaches in the building as well. Imagine a world if Trey McBride wasnt any good just how bad things would look.

 

[602 Native]

No I'm not saying that I'm saying I don't think we can know today what we can get for Kyler because it depends almost entirely on how his year ends up. Say he has a foot injury and goes on IR, trade value goes down if you weren't already concerned about his durability that would make you concerned.

If you just multiply out 17 games he's looking at just over 3000 yards 21 TD's 10 picks 6 YPA. The YPA number is terrible. He's 28 same age as Darnold but Darnold was traded when he was 24. And Darnold to my knowledge has no major injury history Kyler had an ACL torn.

We SHOULD get something but we have no idea what because we don't know what happens the last 12 games

Oh no youre not I am

A 3rd is more than doable for K1 given his performance with a terrible organisation like ours.

I still don't think they trade him mid season which would make the most sense but you never know.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Why are you yelling?

Well we are the history making Cardinals, so....

Because the thought of tanking again after spending the last 2+ seasons tanking is vomit inducing. Our entire history appears to be either outright or unintentional of tanking.

 

[Chopper0080]

If that 17 mil is due the first day of the New Year, wouldn't the cards be in the hook for that. I assume he wouldn't be traded until then. Or it would be a condition of the trade.

It's paid out, but also still part of the cap. I will be honest, I can't find a great answer for this. The Cards pay any bonsues, but I don't know if they stay on the Cardinals cap if that player is later traded. You are probably correct.

 

[SoonerLou]

I've said this elsewhere. However, Greg Cosell says how a coach calls a game tells you what he thinks of the QB (WR to a lesser extent)

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Fair or not. We're seeing Drew has lost faith. Whether in just Kyler. Maybe he's not seeing MHJ improving under Drew Terrell in terms of getting YAC.

Either way to make that call at that time is just brutal. Faith has been lost and the season may now be cooked.

 

[602 Native]

I've said this elsewhere. However, Greg Cosell says how a coach calls a game tells you what he thinks of the QB (WR to a lesser extent)

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Fair or not. We're seeing Drew has lost faith. Whether in just Kyler. Maybe h'se not seeing MHJ improving under Drew Terrell in terms of getting YAC.

Either way to make that call at that time is just brutal. Faith has been lost and the season may now be cooked.

Thats weird because he had faith just a game ago when it was 3 and 8 with the game on the line and K1 put the ball in Zay Jones hands and he totally dropped it.

Im so out on BPB. Dude is way in over his head just like JG.