Kyler Murray Debate Thread

[kerouac9]

The tough as nails Mayfield? His teammates would crawl in a foxhole with that dude. Murray would be alone in his foxhole. As an ex military person that's what I've been taught, seen, and believe.

To be fair, people said Mayfield was being selfish by playing hurt his last year in Cleveland. When he left, he got smeared by Odell Beckham Jr’s dad as a bad teammate.

But IIRC it wasn’t a consensus decision to part ways; mayfield wanted to stay. The Browns brass thought they were getting a major upgrade in Watson.

Baker was 29-30 as a starter for the Browns. Kyler is 38-47-1 (not counting playoffs).

 

[BritCard]

Yes this loss was in K1 totally

You people need a new mantra after that collapse of a game by our coaches.

There was a lot of blame to go around but Kyler was absolute cheeks after the 4th drive and 1st quarter.

You can say what you like about Demercado, the defense, Petzing or anyone else but this is supposed to be Kyler's offense. He's not a passenger. You can't keep blaming crappy offensive performances on everyone except the field general.

If you want to argue "Why didn't they put it in Kyler's hands when we need a 1st down?" well, this is why.

And yeah, so much awful crap happened that wasn't Kyler, but that doesn't absolve Kyler of his crappy performances and general lack of leadership.

Quarter	Attempts	Completions	Incompletions	Yards	YPA
1Q	7	6	1	102	14.6
2Q	11	6	5	40	3.6
3Q	8	7	1	52	6.5
4Q	5	4	1	26	5.2
Total	31	23	8	220	7.1

 

[BritCard]

K1 will go somewhere else to a real franchise and be just fine.

This team is beyond horrible.

Will you go with him?

 

[Brian in Mesa]

BS Stout.

TEN wrecked our oline today. Exposed them for the frauds they are.

K1 made a bunch of plays today but the Oline, Demarcdo and DP were having none of it.

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Durrr

 

[BritCard]

pffft.

How long is going to take to rebuild this team now man?

Seriously. How many players and coaches away are we from winning a superbowl Stout?

McBride is going to labor in obscurity for the next three or four years. By the time there's a group of players and coaches around him that's even capable of winning a playoff game, he'll be past his prime.

It sucks to be Trey McBride tonight. It really, really sucks.

Yeah sucks to be getting $18m a year and be widely considered to be a top 3, if not top 1, TE in the league.

How is he laboring in obscurity?

 

[BritCard]

Look at this. 12 drives and only 21 points.

We lost his game for a lot of reasons, but the Titans are a horrible team and any QB should be ashamed of these numbers. The problem is, I don't think Kyler is. He looks at this offense like it's someone else's and he's just there to drive how he's told. Does anyone feel like Kyler owns the offense? Like he feels responsible for it?

Much of this board has lost faith in Murray, so aren't as bothered about the season as they normally would be. To me, I think the players feel the same. I don't think this offense has faith in Murray and that's showing in their play.

Drive	Result	Plays	Yards	Time
1	Touchdown	8	67	4:06
2	Touchdown	7	65	4:21
3	Punt	3	9	1:31
4	Touchdown	4	27	1:32
5	Punt	6	-3	3:36
6	Punt	3	-8	0:34
7	Punt	3	2	0:43
8	Fumble	13	51	7:52
9	Punt	3	1	0:55
10	Fumble	5	92	3:03
11	Punt	3	1	1:41
12	Punt	6	15	2:46

 

[GeorgiaCard88]

Kyler ain't winning **** in the nfl long term - undersized and is very mid to below average in his decision making/reads. Sure he has his bag of tricks- but as we see every season- it is never close to enough.

But hey- here is to hoping that some desperate team is willing to think they can "fix him". He can go there and end some other coaches career- I am so done with him

 

[Stout]

I bet it bothered Mayfield to get run out of CLE. I bet all the smart guys on the CLE message boards ripped him to shreds before he was finally released. Posted screen shots. Broke down all his bad plays and bad decisions. Called him stupid and every other name.

But I doubt Baker regrets it very much now.

Murray deserves a chance to play for a competent franchise. I won't wish him well when he no longer wears the Cardinal, but just out of compassion for another human being, I hope we trade him tomorrow.

This is hell we're in now.

Their situations don't compare. Until that fateful final season, Baker was a hero there. He got to the playoffs and beat the hated Stillers.

 

[Stout]

Amen, Murray outplayed Mayfield when Baker was with Cleveland but now that Mayfield is with a team that plays to his strengths, he looks pretty good. Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold and Daniel Jones are just three examples of QB's that improve when their playing style matches the O.C's play calling. Looking like it might be time to let Kyler go and give him a shot somewhere else.
The elephant in the room however is, EXACTLY what type of QB will succeed in a Drew Petzing system??? When Murray was out, Petzing's offense looked putrid ( SMH), with Murray back it looks bad ( SMH ). Not sure what type of QB fits this offensive system. Right now Petzing's offense seems to be playing Not to Lose rather than actually Playing to Win. Not sure what type of NFL QB fits that system.

Incorrect, but try again.

 

[SoonerLou]

Their situations don't compare. Until that fateful final season, Baker was a hero there. He got to the playoffs and beat the hated Stillers.

Ehhh

Baker was a hero cause the QB situation was a disaster for years in Cleveland. And Ben throwing 6 ints played a large role in that playoff game.

Baker was a hero early, but once his OC became HC it went south quickly. And then Drew's best friend Kevin Stefanski took over the following year The team was better and started winning, but Baker looked more like a game manger. People thought it was Baker holding the team back or had limited potential.

 

[Stout]

Ehhh

Baker was a hero cause the QB situation was a disaster for years in Cleveland. And Ben throwing 6 ints played a large role in that playoff game.

Baker was a hero early, but once his OC became HC it went south quickly. And then Drew's best friend Kevin Stefanski took over the following year The team was better and started winning, but Baker looked more like a game manger. People thought it was Baker holding the team back or had limited potential.

Regardless, Baker was better in Cleveland than KM was in Arizona. Not even a discussion to be had there.

 

[daves]

Murray outplayed Mayfield when Baker was with Cleveland

Incorrect, but try again.

@K1Day1 is 100% correct here. While Mayfield was in Cleveland, Murray had essentially the same winning record, higher completion rate, higher yards per attempt (!), higher success rate, higher passer rating, higher QBR, higher TD:Int ratio, more than 3x as many rushing yards, 4x as many rushing TDs, and a 2-0 head-to-head record.

 

[SoonerLou]

I’m surprised the haters haven’t come in here and said Cam out played K1.

If this is the product that this organization is going to continue to put out for fans to watch then I may not be watching alot more games this season. " WAY BEYOND " trying to blame any one player or "plays" for the exact same outcomes season after season. It would be different if this organization had some long storied history of winning, but at this point Kyler Murray's play (meh, whatever), Demercado's stupid fumble (meh, whatever), last week's kickoff that didn't pass the 25 yard line (meh, whatever). Change the players names and more seasons than not it is the same result.
The ONLY thing I will say about this current Cardinals state of affairs is; " If Monti and JG want to tie there careers to Petzing then they are not gonna have long tenures in the NFL ". The rest of it seems to be the status qoa ( Except for a few years ) for Arizona Cardinal football.

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My thing is Kyler was all in on Drew. Which should be a good thing in terms of following your OC. He needs to be cut/traded in order to find his spark again. Cause he plays like he doesnt believe he's that good.

 

[daves]

Regardless, Baker was better in Cleveland than KM was in Arizona. Not even a discussion to be had there.

Your memory must be clouded by the last few hopeless years, but you couldn't be more wrong. There was a time when we all had reason for huge optimism regarding Murray. It seems so distant, it's almost unreal... But it really happened!

 

[Stout]

@K1Day1 is 100% correct here. While Mayfield was in Cleveland, Murray had essentially the same winning record, higher completion rate, higher yards per attempt (!), higher success rate, higher passer rating, higher QBR, higher TD:Int ratio, more than 3x as many rushing yards, 4x as many rushing TDs, and a 2-0 head-to-head record.

Great! How'd he do in the playoffs?

 

[SoonerLou]

Regardless, Baker was better in Cleveland than KM was in Arizona. Not even a discussion to be had there.

Thats a multi level question. Are we comparing early Murray vs early Baker?

In his first four NFL seasons (2019-2022), Kyler Murray recorded 13,848 passing yards, 84 touchdowns, and 41 interceptions, with a passer rating of 92.5 across 57 games played for the Arizona Cardinals. He added 2,411 rushing yards and 20 rushing touchdowns over those first four years

In his first four NFL seasons (2018-2021) with the Cleveland Browns, Baker Mayfield recorded 14,125 passing yards, 92 touchdowns, and 56 interceptions over 60 games, with a passer rating of 87.8. His stats by year were: 3,725 yards and 27 TDs in 2018, 3,827 yards and 22 TDs in 2019, 3,563 yards and 26 TDs in 2020, and 3,010 yards and 17 TDs in 2021.

Or strictly Stefanski era Baker vs Petzing era Kyler

Baker's 2020 season was certainly better than Kyler's 3 seasons with Drew. He hasnt, yet, been as bad as Baker in 2021.

Your memory must be clouded by the last few hopeless years, but you couldn't be more wrong. There was a time when we all had reason for huge optimism regarding Murray. It seems so distant, it's almost unreal... But it really happened!

Yep.

My question for Kyler can he still rip it like he did in those early years. Dont really have the offense for that, but does he still have that caliber of arm.

 

[daves]

Great! How'd he do in the playoffs?

Point taken! And the last half of 2021 was clearly the beginning of the end for Murray, but comparing their overall tenures while Mayfield was in Cleveland, Murray was better.

 

[SoonerLou]

Point taken! And the last half of 2021 was clearly the beginning of the end for Murray, but comparing their overall tenures while Mayfield was in Cleveland, Murray was better.

I still contend a part of that was no Hopkins and AJ suddenly becoming washed. However, at least the talent was there. Im beginning to question the arm talent/confidence. All this training with his dad and his arm has got worse.

The smartest thing Kyler did for himself was force that extension. However, if he was really smart it might have been to force himself elsewhere after the 2021 season.

I think him and the Cards would be a better spot today.

 

[Stout]

I still contend a part of that was no Hopkins and AJ suddenly becoming washed. However, at least the talent was there. Im beginning to question the arm talent/confidence.

The smartest thing Kyler did for himself was force that extension. However, if he was really smart it might have been to force himself elsewhere after the 2021 season.

I think him and the Cards would be a better spot today.

Worst decision ever was signing him to that extension for no reason.

 

[SoonerLou]

Watching Drake Maye operate an offense against a pretty good 4-0 Bills team like a 7 year pro….well

Funny enough he doesnt look as confused (Patriots media) when he was learning from Alex Van Pelt.

Drew's buddy and guy he learned from in Cleveland.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Worst decision ever was signing him to that extension for no reason.

100% this

That really threw me for a loop

 

[swagron]

Worst decision ever was signing him to that extension for no reason.

Remember reading on this board, “better sign him now, the price only goes up from here”.

What a lame take.

 

[602 Native]

Will you go with him?

I live in AZ how about you?

 

[602 Native]

Funny to see all the revisionist history about Baker and no mention of Darnold.

I guess you can only twist the truth so far.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Regardless, Baker was better in Cleveland than KM was in Arizona. Not even a discussion to be had there.

They were about the same using my memory. The biggest difference to me is Baker plays though injuries while Kyler sits out with them. So to me it tough to compare just numbers. But there is no doubt who is better today.

Edit

That one playoff win gives Baker the tie breaker for me