Kyler Murray Debate Thread

[Crimson Warrior]

Yes but look at the Average Depth of Target:

McBride: 6.1
Wilson: 11.4
Dortch: 4.1

Yes if you’re throwing very short it’s easier to be accurate and let guys run. Terrible take.

That makes some sense, but I would wager (I could be wrong) MW's average YAC compares very poorly to other receivers with a 2024 ADOT of 11. I looked a little but couldn't find a good chart for this (not asking you to kerouac9).

I agree that part of it is probably his route tree, but I think part of it too is that MW does not get a great deal of separation from defenders (vs. Trey McBride for example).

In any event, he was 170th in total YAC in 2024. There's no spinning that.

However, I hope he leads the league in YAC in 2025. 100%. Please, please, please MW, prove me wrong, and show the world that you are an effective NFL WR2. Please.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Agree completely but also feel they have a different skill set overall. Kyler is faster and elusive, Hurts is a bull. Hurts was never known to be accurate passer, it’s also why you hear Brown consistently complain. Brown would fit better with Kyler.

What does that say about your dude K1 then? Hurts career completion percent is better than Kyler's, 68.7% to 67.1%.

 

[DaHilg]

What does that say about your dude K1 then? Hurts career completion percent is better than Kyler's, 68.7% to 67.1%.

lol, similar to Lamar they designed an offense to go by the few throws he can make and have exploited his running capabilities. You really are one obtuse individual

 

[Chris_Sanders]

What does that say about your dude K1 then? Hurts career completion percent is better than Kyler's, 68.7% to 67.1%.

That Hurts is better? I don't think that's a controversial take

 

[WisconsinCard]

lol, similar to Lamar they designed an offense to go by the few throws he can make and have exploited his running capabilities. You really are one obtuse individual

Ok how about career passer rating, 93.5 to 92.4. who is the obtuse individual here? Just admit you said something stupid got called on it and move in. Don't double down on the stupidity when facts are killing you.

 

[WisconsinCard]

That Hurts is better? I don't think that's a controversial take

That was his take not mine. I agree that Hurts is better.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Man it would be great if we just knocked the Saints dick in the dirt in every aspect.

I’m more than fine with a board full of Kyler I told you so’s and quiet otherwise for a week!

 

[BritCard]

He does this with McBride a lot. Trust / shorter routes.

How much anticipation to you need an a 6 yard route?

QGs need to be able to throw a 10 yard out or dig to a WR with anticipation and Kyler just can't do that consistently.

I highlighted the one in preseason on a dig to Marv, but it stood out because it's so rare to see.

 

[DaHilg]

Ok how about career passer rating, 93.5 to 92.4. who is the obtuse individual here? Just admit you said something stupid got called on it and move in. Don't double down on the stupidity when facts are killing you.

Absolutely not - Hurts is not a good thrower of the football. He’s a great leader and a great running QB, but no he is not an accurate QB that can make all the throws. His increased completion percentage since his first 2 years in the league is not because he’s become more accurate, but because of the scheme he is in. They built the scheme around the throws he can make and what he does well as a football player. Wildly similar to what the Ravens did with Lamar. Although Lamar has elevated himself to another level over the years. Go read some articles on both of those players and what their teams did. It was smart we should have done this with kyler as well, rather than try to make him a pocket passer and fit into a scheme. Play to a players strength.

 

[DaHilg]

What does that say about your dude K1 then? Hurts career completion percent is better than Kyler's, 68.7% to 67.1%.

Also fact check there hot sauce.. KYLERS career completion % is 67.1% where as Hurts is nearly 3 pts lower at 64.6%. The Kyler hatred is strong with in you to where you’ll just post blatant false statistics and the “crew” will jump on board blindly.

 

[BritCard]

The weirdest thing about the Kyler defenders is they act like nobody has eyes.

Everyone here watches a bunch of football or has watched a bunch of football in their lives. When you watch that much football you instinctively learn what a good QB looks like and what bad QB's looks like. Poise in the pocket, the speed and accuracy of passes, going through reads, composure in clutch situations, command of the offense, leadership etc etc

You don't have to know a tonne about ball to know what a good QB looks like, what a bad QB looks like and what the guys somewhere in between look like. Humans are very good, with a lot of repetition, at picking up visual queues.

You can roll out any stats or excuses you want. Everyone here knows from watching a lot of Kyler that he doesn't look like all the guys they ever watched that were considered good QB's.

 

[football karma]

When you watch that much football you instinctively learn what a good QB looks like and what bad QB's looks like.

if the line is Good or Not Good -- Kyler clearly on the Good side. Not great, but good.

Stats are objective and inform. Especially true when everyone on this board has an (extreme) emotional investment in the Cardinals and their QB. That investment doesnt allow us to objectively evaluate performance the way we can when looking at other teams.

as an example: Herbert was outstanding last night. Yet -- several missed throws, and, on one goal to goal throw-- threw to a covered Quentin Johnson while Kurt Warner pointed out that he missed a wide open Ladd McConkey for a TD.

Had that been the Cards playing: that clip of all 22 film would have been analyzed a dozen different ways

 

[Chris_Sanders]

How much anticipation to you need an a 6 yard route?

QGs need to be able to throw a 10 yard out or dig to a WR with anticipation and Kyler just can't do that consistently.

I highlighted the one in preseason on a dig to Marv, but it stood out because it's so rare to see.

Okay but you said he never does it and he does. This is the problem with all of your over the top hyperbole. You just move the goalposts when you are checked on it.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Also fact check there hot sauce.. KYLERS career completion % is 67.1% where as Hurts is nearly 3 pts lower at 64.6%. The Kyler hatred is strong with in you to where you’ll just post blatant false statistics and the “crew” will jump on board blindly.

Hey "Cold Sauce" that's not even remotely close to what I said. passer rating is not calculated on just completion percentage. Learn the game rookie.. but you keep on with you K1 is the best QB the world has ever seen. So fact check that!!!

 

[DaHilg]

Hey "Cold Sauce" that's not even remotely close to what I said. passer rating is not calculated on just completion percentage. Learn the game rookie.. but you keep on with you K1 is the best QB the world has ever seen. So fact check that!!!

WTF are you talking about you posted false career completion for Hurts touting it was better than Kyler’s and now you are saying you didn’t post it? Another hatred for Kyler guy moving the goal posts… I mean did he sleep with someone’s wife or sister on this board?

 

[slanidrac16]

if the line is Good or Not Good -- Kyler clearly on the Good side. Not great, but good.

Stats are objective and inform. Especially true when everyone on this board has an (extreme) emotional investment in the Cardinals and their QB. That investment doesnt allow us to objectively evaluate performance the way we can when looking at other teams.

as an example: Herbert was outstanding last night. Yet -- several missed throws, and, on one goal to goal throw-- threw to a covered Quentin Johnson while Kurt Warner pointed out that he missed a wide open Ladd McConkey for a TD.

Had that been the Cards playing: that clip of all 22 film would have been analyzed a dozen different ways

If Kyler performs like Herbert did last night , we will all be ecstatic.

 

[unseenaz]

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Look at the high school stadium Kyler played in... Football is different in Texas.

 

[BritCard]

if the line is Good or Not Good -- Kyler clearly on the Good side. Not great, but good.

Stats are objective and inform. Especially true when everyone on this board has an (extreme) emotional investment in the Cardinals and their QB. That investment doesnt allow us to objectively evaluate performance the way we can when looking at other teams.

as an example: Herbert was outstanding last night. Yet -- several missed throws, and, on one goal to goal throw-- threw to a covered Quentin Johnson while Kurt Warner pointed out that he missed a wide open Ladd McConkey for a TD.

Had that been the Cards playing: that clip of all 22 film would have been analyzed a dozen different ways

Is own fans consider him 15th in the league. Football analysts have him 19th on average from the amalgamated QB rankings I put together.

How's that good? And that's factoring in his legs, heavily. If you ranked him just as a passer he'd be even lower.

 

[BritCard]

Okay but you said he never does it and he does. This is the problem with all of your over the top hyperbole. You just move the goalposts when you are checked on it.

He doesn't, which was why I said "how much do you need on a 6 yard pass". No anticipation required.

We've all seen him do it very occasionally. Every dog has it's day. But so what? QB's need to do it regularly. It should be a major part of his game and it isn't.

You even see WR's with space to run stop to receive the pass because they know it's an issue. How many times have we seen him throw 2 yards behind a crossing route?

 

[kerouac9]

Is own fans consider him 15th in the league. Football analysts have him 19th on average from the amalgamated QB rankings I put together.

How's that good? And that's factoring in his legs, heavily. If you ranked him just as a passer he'd be even lower.

It’s good compared to 2025 Aaron Rodgers and Russell Wilson. It’s good compared to Joe Flacco and Justin Fields.

Good enough to get you beat.

 

[football karma]

Kylers youtube channel just dropped this -- the offseason trip, etc

pretty interesting. he uses the word "consistency" a bunch. Sure sounds like he plans on running more

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[Crimson Warrior]

The weirdest thing about the Kyler defenders is they act like nobody has eyes.

Everyone here watches a bunch of football or has watched a bunch of football in their lives. When you watch that much football you instinctively learn what a good QB looks like and what bad QB's looks like. Poise in the pocket, the speed and accuracy of passes, going through reads, composure in clutch situations, command of the offense, leadership etc etc

You don't have to know a tonne about ball to know what a good QB looks like, what a bad QB looks like and what the guys somewhere in between look like. Humans are very good, with a lot of repetition, at picking up visual queues.

You can roll out any stats or excuses you want. Everyone here knows from watching a lot of Kyler that he doesn't look like all the guys they ever watched that were considered good QB's.

Ah yes.

The classic "forget that he had the 9th best QBR in the league last year, if you watched him play he clearly sucks!" performance analysis assessment.

Love when this one is trotted out. Annually.

 

[BirdGangThing]

ate lunch with a browns fan today - almost want to take back everything ive said about this franchise - definitely have a newfound respect for kyler murray - homie basically said he'd kill to be in our shoes - his voice was shaken and his face turned blotchy red when he was talking about cleveland qbs and draft picks

 

[WisconsinCard]

WTF are you talking about you posted false career completion for Hurts touting it was better than Kyler’s and now you are saying you didn’t post it? Another hatred for Kyler guy moving the goal posts… I mean did he sleep with someone’s wife or sister on this board?

My bad I did do that. I mixed up my numbers. But I still see no comparison to the two QBs. If you told me you would take K1 over hurts to start a franchise most would call you crazy.

I was on a conference call last night, for the fights tonight, while I was posting this stuff. So next time I'll concentrate better.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

My bad I did do that. I mixed up my numbers. But I still see no comparison to the two QBs. If you told me you would take K1 over hurts to start a franchise most would call you crazy.

Generally, K1 is more physically talented than Jalen. Like by a fair amount.

Better arm talent, better straight line speed, and more elusive.

Is Jalen a better Field General, sure. He's been much more successful as well. But he's also been surrounded by better talent, especially, especially with better offensive lines.

For the record, I think K1 will win an MVP before Hurts does.