Kyler Murray Debate Thread

[DaHilg]

He hasn't had weapons as good, but neither has he been good at it either. He has simply looked off when throwing the deep ball these last few years. For me it's a combo of both.

Add in a terrible IOL.. 4 variables too many for deep throws to be working;

- Kyler being skittish in the pocket
- No true deep threat
- Special Petz scheming and playcalling
- weak IOL.. being attacked at Kyler’s biggest weakness in his game. He simply can’t handle interior pressure. A factor of his physical limitations - size.

 

[Russ Smith]

He hasn't had weapons as good, but neither has he been good at it either. He has simply looked off when throwing the deep ball these last few years. For me it's a combo of both.

Said it before since he got Covid he has not appeared to have the same arm strength on the long throws.

 

[Stout]

Add in a terrible IOL.. 4 variables too many for deep throws to be working;

- Kyler being skittish in the pocket
- No true deep threat
- Special Petz scheming and playcalling
- weak IOL.. being attacked at Kyler’s biggest weakness in his game. He simply can’t handle interior pressure. A factor of his physical limitations - size.

Meh. Kyler has been skittish in good pockets, too. He also locks onto one read often. He also checks down way too often. There are definitely other problems he's dealt with, but still, he's #1 on the list for me. If he doesn't get better in what feels like year 20 now, the rest won't matter.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Said it before since he got Covid he has not appeared to have the same arm strength on the long throws.

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Eh.. I mean the above highlight real does not show the same velocity as his rookie year (which was like, "WOW"), but overall his arm strength looks okay. Maybe even "good".

What is absent from the 2024 highlights are true "bomb" throws, where K1 throws it 50 yards in the air and hits a streaking receiver on the numbers. I'm not sure we even attempted that very much in 2024 though? In any event, I won't say that Kyler was good on the long ball last year.

Still, there are a ton of excellent throws from 2024. I don't think my boy is done. Not one bit!

 

[PDXChris]

He hasn't had weapons as good, but neither has he been good at it either. He has simply looked off when throwing the deep ball these last few years. For me it's a combo of both.

I feel like in the 8 games in 2023 and the first part of last season, his deep throws look weak and inaccurate, but at the year went on, they just looked inaccurate. Hopefully with confidence back in that knee, it can focus on the accuracy part again and have the strength part behind him.

 

[DaHilg]

Meh. Kyler has been skittish in good pockets, too. He also locks onto one read often. He also checks down way too often. There are definitely other problems he's dealt with, but still, he's #1 on the list for me. If he doesn't get better in what feels like year 20 now, the rest won't matter.

Your hatred bleeds through… name a time when we EVER had a solid to good IOL for pass protection. The answer is never. This and rarely designed roll-outs just boggle my mind for the entirety of his career. Would love to see Kyler on Philly w their OLine and scheme.

 

[DaHilg]

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Eh.. I mean the above highlight real does not show the same velocity as his rookie year (which was like, "WOW"), but overall his arm strength looks okay. Maybe even "good".

What is absent from the 2024 highlights are true "bomb" throws, where K1 throws it 50 yards in the air and hits a streaking receiver on the numbers. I'm not sure we even attempted that very much in 2024 though? In any event, I won't say that Kyler was good on the long ball last year.

Still, there are a ton of excellent throws from 2024. I don't think my boy is done. Not one bit!

Can’t throw it long when you can’t protect the middle… and the rarity of a design to throw it long. Hoping the scheme was more because of that rather than what to expect play calling wise in 2024. You aren’t going to win in this league dinking and dunking between the 20’s. It’s precisely what defenses want you to do… garbage yards.

 

[football karma]

He hasn't had weapons as good, but neither has he been good at it either. He has simply looked off when throwing the deep ball these last few years. For me it's a combo of both.

when people who really know NFL QB play diagnose whats wrong with a QB -- it seems they always talk about footwork or lower body stuff

neverless, such a Cardinal-esque mystery. They have a QB that literally has gone from being the best deep ball thrower for multiple years to being the worst for multiple years. Its one thing if he had shoulder surgery or something..........

 

[Russ Smith]

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Eh.. I mean the above highlight real does not show the same velocity as his rookie year (which was like, "WOW"), but overall his arm strength looks okay. Maybe even "good".

What is absent from the 2024 highlights are true "bomb" throws, where K1 throws it 50 yards in the air and hits a streaking receiver on the numbers. I'm not sure we even attempted that very much in 2024 though? In any event, I won't say that Kyler was good on the long ball last year.

Still, there are a ton of excellent throws from 2024. I don't think my boy is done. Not one bit!

Not saying he's done saying I don't think his arm has ever been quite the same since he got Covid. If you recall the camp the year after that there were reports he had a "dead arm" and was taking time off to rest it.

 

[Russ Smith]

Also Google reminds me Kyler had an AC joint sprain in his throwing shoulder in 2020.

If I'm remembering the timeline right he played through that in 2020, then had a reported dead arm in 2021 in camp and then late that year got Covid. I remember him saying when he got back how crazy it was that it took him weeks to just feel right again. This was a guy mid 20's in peak shape and he said it took him more than a month to feel like himself again. Then of course in December of that year he tore his ACL.

So there's probably lots of reasons why his arm may not be as strong on the deep throws.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Can’t throw it long when you can’t protect the middle… and the rarity of a design to throw it long. Hoping the scheme was more because of that rather than what to expect play calling wise in 2024. You aren’t going to win in this league dinking and dunking between the 20’s. It’s precisely what defenses want you to do… garbage yards.

Then how did he look good early in 2021? These are all just excuses. K1 needs to step up and he the man. If he can't elevate his team then he's not a franchise QB. IMO

 

[Stout]

Then how did he look good early in 2021? These are all just excuses. K1 needs to step up and he the man. If he can't elevate his team then he's not a franchise QB. IMO

Some would have us think that Kyler has never had a clean pocket in his life.

 

[BritCard]

This video must be paid for. It starts off with praising the simplest 4 yard throw you will ever see and I turned off when it got the this passing chart. You can't just colour everything green and hope nobody looks at he numbers.

You must be registered for see images attach

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[Cheesebeef]

Then how did he look good early in 2021? These are all just excuses. K1 needs to step up and he the man. If he can't elevate his team then he's not a franchise QB. IMO

Or the first 9 games of 2020?

 

[DaHilg]

Then how did he look good early in 2021? These are all just excuses. K1 needs to step up and he the man. If he can't elevate his team then he's not a franchise QB. IMO

Early 2021.. we didn’t start working off of 2nd and and 3rd stringers until about half way through the season. But cute, lmk how the views are of Stout’s behind as you instantly tagalong w any post between myself and him. Rather embarrassing.

 

[Stout]

Early 2021.. we didn’t start working off of 2nd and and 3rd stringers until about half way through the season. But cute, lmk how the views are of Stout’s behind as you instantly tagalong w any post between myself and him. Rather embarrassing.

So we're back to blind homerisim. Cute.

Kyler's a flawed QB. He has a chance to get better and get things done in the playoffs. I really don't see it, but there's a chance. I hope he does so as much or even more so than you.

 

[DaHilg]

So we're back to blind homerisim. Cute.

Kyler's a flawed QB. He has a chance to get better and get things done in the playoffs. I really don't see it, but there's a chance. I hope he does so as much or even more so than you.

lol why don’t you read my actual post that stated 1st kyler being a problem. Unless I just completely crap on the guy at every turn you won’t see or agree w anything. I really very sorry for Stout. I’ve never disliked an athlete like you do Kyler. It’s weird at this point. I think you should go see someone.. all that negativity can’t be healthy.

 

[Ronin]

lol why don’t you read my actual post that stated 1st kyler being a problem. Unless I just completely crap on the guy at every turn you won’t see or agree w anything. I really very sorry for Stout. I’ve never disliked an athlete like you do Kyler. It’s weird at this point. I think you should go see someone.. all that negativity can’t be healthy.

Enough of that. 1st warning.

Attack the post not the poster.

 

[Ronin]

Kyler Murray ranked just outside top 10 in ESPN QB poll

Arizona Cardinals quarterback Kyler Murray was voted outside of the NFL's top 10 quarterbacks in Jeremy Fowler's ESPN executive poll.

arizonasports.com

 

[oaken1]

Kylers deep ball woes are directly the result of him bulking up too much a few years back. The extra upper body mass threw off his mechanics and arm speed and his deep accuracy went to crap.
Stop with the excuses. It was his own fault. Not covid. Not a shoulder injury. Purely failing to stay flexible and accurate as he bulked because he put 100% into bulking that off season and not passing.
Then he blew out the knee. While rehabbing the knee he reverted back to his norm in body mass. Unfortunately he again failed to stay on top of his accuracy in the face of increasing arm speed...

Only 1 thing fixes it. Just one.
Repetitions.
Dude has to get out there and throw a couple hundred passes a day to his WR's and into five gallon buckets 40 yards down field.
It takes work. Lots of work. To both get accuracy and to maintain said accuracy.
But I like that he has met up with his skill players for extra work a few times this season.
It helps him to properly guage his guys speed so he can hit them in stride.
Also..off season...in SoCal...the "QB1" weight does not sit quite as heavily on his teammates. So if he keeps missing guys ...after a bit, they will start to let him know.
Even in the NFL you have to earn your cred. Other players only sweet spot you on potential for a couple seasons. Then it's put up or shut up. Because a crap QB costs all those guys money.
So I like kyler putting himself in position to get peer pressured and heckled in regards to football.
It can only be good.

 

[Russ Smith]

This video must be paid for. It starts off with praising the simplest 4 yard throw you will ever see and I turned off when it got the this passing chart. You can't just colour everything green and hope nobody looks at he numbers.

You must be registered for see images attach

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i only watched the first 3 plays it's all against Jets. What strikes me right away is there's literally nobody really "open" on any of the 3 plays yet he gets 3 completions one for a TD. The one to McBride was the 2nd play it's the most open of the 3 and when Kyler lets it go the guy circles it and Trey isn't open at all it's just Kyler anticipating he WILL be open and threads it in there into tight coverage. The TD throw to MHJ again he's got no separation at all just a perfect throw, and if you watch the replays when they run it back nobody else on the field is open either.

He's far from perfect he's not an elite QB we all get that but I think stuff like those plays point out how often last year he was dealing with having to make a perfect throw or run to move the ball.

My biggest concern on our offense this year is will the WR room be much better than last year? I think MHJ will be better i'm not sure where the other improvement will come from? Unless Reiman picks it up as a receiver I'm not sure how much better the passing game can be this year. The one issue this offseason was we did NOT upgrade Wr really at all. I'm concerned about the guards, I'm concerned if Kyler will limit the INT's, but by far my biggest concern is are we going to see another year of WR's getting no separation at all

 

[Russ Smith]

Kylers deep ball woes are directly the result of him bulking up too much a few years back. The extra upper body mass threw off his mechanics and arm speed and his deep accuracy went to crap.
Stop with the excuses. It was his own fault. Not covid. Not a shoulder injury. Purely failing to stay flexible and accurate as he bulked because he put 100% into bulking that off season and not passing.
Then he blew out the knee. While rehabbing the knee he reverted back to his norm in body mass. Unfortunately he again failed to stay on top of his accuracy in the face of increasing arm speed...

Only 1 thing fixes it. Just one.
Repetitions.
Dude has to get out there and throw a couple hundred passes a day to his WR's and into five gallon buckets 40 yards down field.
It takes work. Lots of work. To both get accuracy and to maintain said accuracy.
But I like that he has met up with his skill players for extra work a few times this season.
It helps him to properly guage his guys speed so he can hit them in stride.
Also..off season...in SoCal...the "QB1" weight does not sit quite as heavily on his teammates. So if he keeps missing guys ...after a bit, they will start to let him know.
Even in the NFL you have to earn your cred. Other players only sweet spot you on potential for a couple seasons. Then it's put up or shut up. Because a crap QB costs all those guys money.
So I like kyler putting himself in position to get peer pressured and heckled in regards to football.
It can only be good.

You're saying Kyler got smaller after the knee surgery? I would say the opposite.

Sure bulking up might have been a problem but I think when a guy has a sprained AC joint, then Covid then a torn ACl it's not a stretch to think those contributed to his decline as a deep thrower.

 

[kerouac9]

Kyler Murray ranked just outside top 10 in ESPN QB poll

Arizona Cardinals quarterback Kyler Murray was voted outside of the NFL's top 10 quarterbacks in Jeremy Fowler's ESPN executive poll.

arizonasports.com

“Just” is doing a LOT of work in that headline:

Murray was listed first in the “others receiving votes” category, following C.J. Stroud and Jordan Love, who were listed in the honorable mention category outside of the top 10.

 

[BritCard]

lol why don’t you read my actual post that stated 1st kyler being a problem. Unless I just completely crap on the guy at every turn you won’t see or agree w anything. I really very sorry for Stout. I’ve never disliked an athlete like you do Kyler. It’s weird at this point. I think you should go see someone.. all that negativity can’t be healthy.

It's not negativity, or dislike, it's just facts.

What makes it seem like both is constantly having to defend the obvious against rabid deniers. Most people here can see, and have accepted, that Kyler still has major issues after many years in the league. In fact he's developed new issues.

But there are those that think he's a top 10 QB, against all the evidence, and from their perspective all these people are "haters".

He's a mediocre thrower with flashes of brilliance and good legs. Most people know that now.

 

[Stout]

lol why don’t you read my actual post that stated 1st kyler being a problem. Unless I just completely crap on the guy at every turn you won’t see or agree w anything. I really very sorry for Stout. I’ve never disliked an athlete like you do Kyler. It’s weird at this point. I think you should go see someone.. all that negativity can’t be healthy.

Le sigh. Pointless.