Kyler Murray Debate Thread

[PDXChris]

Who said there was a scandal? I simply said it doesn't appear to be nothing. I don't think the collusion rises to something that the NFL should be involved with, but I also don't believe its absolutely nothing.

The original post K9 responded to called it a scandal.

What i read was that Micheal didn't want to be the Browns and after the deal was done, owners congratulated himnl for not being the Browns!

 

[kerouac9]

The original post K9 responded to called it a scandal.

What i read was that Micheal didn't want to be the Browns and after the deal was done, owners congratulated himnl for not being the Browns!

Yeah. If you can’t define what it is, it’s prolly nothing.

 

[602 Native]

The original post K9 responded to called it a scandal.

What i read was that Micheal didn't want to be the Browns and after the deal was done, owners congratulated himnl for not being the Browns!

There is an investigation going on if there has been colluding as owners.

More will come out give it time.

 

[kerouac9]

There is an investigation going on if there has been colluding as owners.

More will come out give it time.

The investigation as closed. The owners obviously colluded, but weren’t found legally liable. That is the real scandal, honestly.

There’s nothing in these texts or Jess Root’s story.

 

[SECTION 11]

I don’t disagree with anything Bidwill said at all. He’s right, Cleveland screwed it up for everyone, which comes as no surprise.

 

[oaken1]

Business owners talking to each other about how to mitigate expenses in their industry.
Yeah...just horrible.

I. Sure players get together and discuss how to maximize their contracts when a new deal is incoming ..so why shouldn't owners discuss how to avoid bad trends?

 

[DaHilg]

Business owners talking to each other about how to mitigate expenses in their industry.
Yeah...just horrible.

I. Sure players get together and discuss how to maximize their contracts when a new deal is incoming ..so why shouldn't owners discuss how to avoid bad trends?

Completely agree.. last thing we would want is the NFL to turn into the NBA; a player ran premadonna league. There are very rare examples in the NFL where holdouts and trade demands workout well for the players and I love that. As an Indiana Pacers fan, I saw Paul George and Oladipo absolutely destroy a small market team for years because of their control to get out of signed contracts with a team to pursue bigger markets. Sickening as fan of a small market team - to the point it made it very hard to hop on board in their ride to the finals this year (such a refreshing team w very little ego btw).

 

[602 Native]

Business owners talking to each other about how to mitigate expenses in their industry.
Yeah...just horrible.

I. Sure players get together and discuss how to maximize their contracts when a new deal is incoming ..so why shouldn't owners discuss how to avoid bad trends?

Thats not how this works.

Contrary to popular belief each franchise is a separate business operated independently except for a few carve outs allowed by the government.

Any collusion between owners about salaries is an absolute violation of the collective bargaining agreement and could terminate what the government allows. The owners absolutely can't try to collaborate about how to reduce salaries or cap them in terms of player contracts.

They are walking on very thin ice in terms of what happened with Lamar Jackson.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

It's not even a scandal. Bidwill didn't do anything. It's just that these texts somehow got subpoena'd.

They got subpoenaed as a part of the burner phone scandal.

 

[kerouac9]

Business owners talking to each other about how to mitigate expenses in their industry.
Yeah...just horrible.

I. Sure players get together and discuss how to maximize their contracts when a new deal is incoming ..so why shouldn't owners discuss how to avoid bad trends?

I don’t think players do. Thats why all the pending FA running backs getting together a few years ago was a big deal.

The owners are supposed to be competing with each other. Competitors getting together to fix prices is illegal in every industry. Roger Goodell uncovered a disgusting loophole that, if we had a functioning Congress, would be immediately closed.

 

[Ronin]

Budda Baker: Kyler Murray's been in his bag, will do it all this year

Cardinals quarterback Kyler Murray said early in the offseason that he feels fully recovered from his 2022 torn ACL and that makes him want to run more this season in order to unleash the full potential of the team's offense.

sports.yahoo.com

 

[602 Native]

Arbitrator Finds NFL 'Encouraged' Collusion Among Teams to Reduce Contract Guarantees

An arbitrator determined that the NFL did indeed encourage teams to engage in "collusion" to reduce salary guarantees in players' contracts.

www.breitbart.com

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Dean Spanos, Michael Bidwill celebrated Kyler Murray's non-fully-guaranteed contract

Arbitrator downplayed clear proof of collusion/coordination on player contracts.

sports.yahoo.com

Man the author is an idiot imo. That’s not a plan, that’s a conversation after the fact. And yeah, similar scenarios occur in other industries.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Didn't do anything? This doesn't seem like nothing:

According to this document, Cardinals owner Michael Bidwill and then-general manager Steve Keim had texts about Murray and about Watson's contract.

Bidwill texted Keim about a potential extension, noting, “We are going to load up this contract with … so many incentives to earn the real money.”

Keim responded with a shot at the Browns and Watson's deal. “Why the Browns felt so compelled to pay Watson like that is baffling,” he texted Bidwill.

So, looking at the Murray deal, Bidwill made sure millions of dollars was tied up in incentives — more than $9.3 million in workout bonuses (participating in the offseason program after he held out in 2022) and more than $4 million in per-game roster bonuses. And then, of course, there was the famous study clause that was later taken out.

Bidwill's texts to other owners​

Bidwill was congratulated for the deal with Murray, as it was not full guaranteed.

Los Angeles Chargers owner Dean Spanos texted Bidwill, "Congratulations on signing Kyler Murray."

Bidwill responded, "Thanks Deno! These QB deals are getting expensive but we limited the fully guaranteed money and have some pretty good language. Thankfully, we have a QB that’s worth paying.”

Spanos followed up with, "Your deal helps us for our QB next year,” referring to quarterback Justin Herbert, who would get a $262.5 million contract extension in 2023. Of that, $193.7 was guaranteed and $133.7 million was fully guaranteed.

Bidwill then responded, showing how the Murray deal would make other owners happy, especially after the Watson deal earlier that year. "I think many teams will be happy with it once they have a chance to review,” he responded. “Cleveland really screwed things up, but I was resolved to keep the guaranteed money relatively ‘low.’”

These are after the fact conversations. This is not collusion.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Who said there was a scandal? I simply said it doesn't appear to be nothing. I don't think the collusion rises to something that the NFL should be involved with, but I also don't believe it’s absolutely nothing.

It’s absolutely nothing. The terms of deals are shared publicly so it’s not like the owners are sharing secret information.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Thats not how this works.

Contrary to popular belief each franchise is a separate business operated independently except for a few carve outs allowed by the government.

Any collusion between owners about salaries is an absolute violation of the collective bargaining agreement and could terminate what the government allows. The owners absolutely can't try to collaborate about how to reduce salaries or cap them in terms of player contracts.

They are walking on very thin ice in terms of what happened with Lamar Jackson.

The Lamar Jackson thing is not these loose texts. These texts, alone, are a nothingburger. They only indicate alignment, no illegal sharing of information.

Newsflash everyone: all bosses in all business responsible for a P&L want to keep wages reasonable-to-low.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don’t think players do. Thats why all the pending FA running backs getting together a few years ago was a big deal.

The owners are supposed to be competing with each other. Competitors getting together to fix prices is illegal in every industry. Roger Goodell uncovered a disgusting loophole that, if we had a functioning Congress, would be immediately closed.

But these texts ain’t that.

 

[SECTION 11]

It’s going to be fun watching Murray tear it up this season.

 

[krazy2k]

It’s going to be fun watching Murray tear it up this season.

For at least the first half of the season...until his regular meltdown in the 2nd half of the season takes our Cards out of playoff contention. After this season, it is time to move on from KM...he's had ample chances to perform at an elite level and has not done so. That's just the truth.

 

[SECTION 11]

For at least the first half of the season...until his regular meltdown in the 2nd half of the season takes our Cards out of playoff contention. After this season, it is time to move on from KM...he's had ample chances to perform at an elite level and has not done so. That's just the truth.

Nope.

 

[kerouac9]

But these texts ain’t that.

Yeah but the meeting with all the owners where an NFL committee told owners not to give any more fully guaranteed contracts sure was, save for a fig leaf that somehow kept it legal.

These texts are clickbait obviously.

 

[DVontel]

For at least the first half of the season...until his regular meltdown in the 2nd half of the season takes our Cards out of playoff contention. After this season, it is time to move on from KM...he's had ample chances to perform at an elite level and has not done so. That's just the truth.

Swear your last 10 Cardinal posts are the same thing word for word.

 

[krazy2k]

Swear your last 10 Cardinal posts are the same thing word for word.

We have to get to 200 pages, right? Not word for word...same theme...and it is the truth based on KM's history. Everyone thinks he'll turn it around this year. We've also heard that word for word from KM supporters each and every year since he joined the Cards. You can keep thinking he is the second coming of Tom Brady. Doesn't make it true.

 

[DVontel]

Swear your last 10 Cardinal posts are the same thing word for word.

We have to get to 200 pages, right? Not word for word...same theme...and it is the truth based on KM's history. Everyone thinks he'll turn it around this year. We've also heard that word for word from KM supporters each and every year since he joined the Cards. You can keep thinking he is the second coming of Tom Brady. Doesn't make it true.

Make that 11.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yeah but the meeting with all the owners where an NFL committee told owners not to give any more fully guaranteed contracts sure was, save for a fig leaf that somehow kept it legal.

These texts are clickbait obviously.

Just because someone tells you do something doesn’t make it collusion either. Have to have evidence that they actually followed that gameplan somehow.