Kyler Murray Debate Thread

cardinals2025

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then why do some qbs get better as the season goes - or not fall off - you come up with all these reasons as to why kyler struggled after the bye but the first step is acceptance - admitting he has a problem - then and only then can your healing begin

kyler murray is an above average quarterback who hasn't learned how to win big games in the nfl yet - and that's okay - saying it is okay - we are in a safe space - this isn't just kyler's make or break year it's also (as you have eluded to in several threads) his best chance to make the playoffs - the team was so stacked nobody knew who we'd draft

you keep trying to convince us kyler murray is better than we think - you must be new here cuz this is asfn - where minds rarely change but we debate things all the same

0 QB's in the NFC West got better in the 2nd half of last season. None of them improved.

Darnold has a career 0-6 record in January btw.

Did you see the 12-6 game with Stafford and Purdy?

If you are asking why the top 5 QB's play better, that speaks for itself. Especially when they have the best defenses to support them almost every game they play.

The issue for Kyler is not the month. Looks at his STATS instead of the record. The change is minimal for his career.

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HIS PROBLEM IS TWOFOLD.

1. WHERE HIS INTS HAPPEN. WHICH MAKES THEIR IMPACT WORSE.

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2. In 2024, him and our offense sucked in this specific situation. He was decent in his other years while trailing, but not last year.


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I am sorry but in this case these stats don't lie. Its wasn't a 2nd half of the season issue. We couldn't recover vs BUF or DET either which everyone forgets.

At one point our offense was last in 4th quarter scoring while being 1st in 1st quarter scoring. This was an entire year this was an issue with Petzing and Kyler.

So yes Kyler struggled vs good defenses at the beginning and end of last season. You know what doesn't help? When your defense is below average.

Last time Kyler had a defense that will be as good as this year was 2021 when we won 11 games. And that defense was only ranked 11 in ppg.

2025 defense could definitely be better, especially when the 2024 defense was similar to the 2020 defense but just played a tougher schedule.

In 2021, the offense had LESS OVERALL YARDS than in 2020 but scored MORE PTS. The defense improving was part of the reason why.

2024 8-9 was a better defense than in = 2020 8-8. I am planning on repeating this until someone wants to challenge it.

SOS (STRENGTH OF SCHEDULE)


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And the reason why I don't want to make excuses and say our oline has issues or we could use another WR is that should not prevent us from making the playoffs and winning a playoff game.


Kyler doesn't have any reasonable excuse this year besides getting a serious injury again.


For the first time in his career EVER he has ALL THESE THINGS:

1. A coach he likes that actively supports him and they have a good relationship.

2. A good GM.

3. The owner allowing these good things to happen spending money this offseason.

4. A top 10 defense

5. Plenty of weapons on offense.

6. Maturity and a sense of leadership.


There is no excuse. I want him gone if we go 8 or 9 wins and miss the playoffs and frankly losing in the 1st round would make me think about it too.

The stats and the talent we have say there is no more excuses.

This division is not overpowering. This team has the talent to win 10 games easily and that should be enough because the Rams aren't winning 11.

The Rams are the only ones who have to play PHI, DET and BAL. They have the hardest opponents in our division this year.

Seattle is not winning 11 in their first with a completely new team, coordinator and QB.

Especially when they aren't going to sweep us this year and got lucky to beat CHI 6-3 and SF on 4th and 15 when Geno ran it in as time expired.

And SF is not going to win the division with the 28th ranked def last in ppg. Their def will get better but they are behind with aging, injury-prone stars.

They will remain the worst defense in our division because SEA, AZ and LAR also are all likely to get better defensively.

And the worst defense in the NFC west has never won the division.

You can easily get something like this:

AZ 10-7

SEA 9-8

LAR 9-8

SF 8-9

I think SEA can get the 3rd wildcard with a better divisional or conf record than LAR.



Playoffs Guess:

#1 PHI

#2 DET vs #7 SEA

#3 TB vs #6 WAS

#4 AZ vs #5 GB


And we probably end up losing in the 2nd round to PHI.
 

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BirdGangThing

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0 QB's in the NFC West got better in the 2nd half of last season. None of them improved.

Did you see the 12-6 game with Stafford and Purdy?

If you are asking why the top 5 QB's play better, that speaks for itself. Especially when they have the best defenses to support them almost every game they play.
you should write a thread about it
 

cardinals2025

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you should write a thread about it

Like as another example, I always loved how the 49ers are the only team within the division that anyone will give excuses and the benefit of the doubt when they have injuries.

Cardinals lose their whole defensive line, why would that impact the season?

We should just suck it up.
 

SoonerLou

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Kyler Murray is a good NFL quarterback, but there is one major thing that’s holding him back. Nobody struggles more against pressure than Kyler, because he doesn’t want to get hit, and oftentimes he looks to scramble when pressured, instead of keeping his eyes down the field. Is there any hope for him to take the next step as a QB? This week’s episode uses the coaches all 22 game film to analyze the Arizona Cardinals Quarterback Kyler Murray’s struggles under pressure.
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Not sure Kyler is going to overcome that. Which is why he's a guy who really needs everything to go right.
 

daves

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Kyler Murray is a good NFL quarterback, but there is one major thing that’s holding him back. Nobody struggles more against pressure than Kyler, because he doesn’t want to get hit, and oftentimes he looks to scramble when pressured, instead of keeping his eyes down the field. Is there any hope for him to take the next step as a QB? This week’s episode uses the coaches all 22 game film to analyze the Arizona Cardinals Quarterback Kyler Murray’s struggles under pressure.
He struggles against pressure because he doesn't study film and is unprepared. He doesn't know who will be open when things don't go according to plan. Why is this a surprise to anyone? He literally said, "I think I was blessed with the cognitive skills to just go out there and just see it before it happens,” Murray said. “I’m not one of those guys that’s going to sit there and kill myself watching film. I don’t sit there for 24 hours and break down this team and that team and watch every game because, in my head, I see so much."

He's a lot more passionate about playing Call of Duty than studying defenses.
 
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GeorgiaCard88

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He struggles against pressure because he doesn't study film and is unprepared. He doesn't know who will be open when things don't go according to plan. Why is this a surprise to anyone? He literally said, "I think I was blessed with the cognitive skills to just go out there and just see it before it happens,” Murray said. “I’m not one of those guys that’s going to sit there and kill myself watching film. I don’t sit there for 24 hours and break down this team and that team and watch every game because, in my head, I see so much."

He's a lot more passionate about playing Call of Duty than studying defenses.
Had to google when that quote was said, 4 years ago coming off his one truly stellar season. I hope that post injury Kyler has a new mindset. there has been some stuff out saying he at least has watched film with his WR group. That said to your point- there’s nothing out there saying Kyler is putting time in the film room studying his opponents, it’s always in the gym or on the field.

Kingsbury was not a leader of men though- hopefully under Gannon and petzing- there is more regimented prep.
 

Stout

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Like as another example, I always loved how the 49ers are the only team within the division that anyone will give excuses and the benefit of the doubt when they have injuries.

Cardinals lose their whole defensive line, why would that impact the season?

We should just suck it up.
I love how oblivious to the dig you are. Is that purposeful or did you just miss it?

Anyway, carry on :thumbup:
 

DVontel

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Not sure Kyler is going to overcome that. Which is why he's a guy who really needs everything to go right.
Agreed.

Kyler can study film 24/7, which I’m sure he studies a lot (instead of focusing on a quote from COVID times), I don’t think it will ever matter because he’s just too afraid to stand in the pocket & get hit hard due to his height.

Could surprise, but it is what it is.
 

kerouac9

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Agreed.

Kyler can study film 24/7, which I’m sure he studies a lot (instead of focusing on a quote from COVID times), I don’t think it will ever matter because he’s just too afraid to stand in the pocket & get hit hard due to his height.

Could surprise, but it is what it is.
Also it’s impossible to practice this. I have little doubt he’s practiced with his dad for hours and years getting down when the pressure closes in to protect himself. Maybe also escaping out the back door.

I have no idea how you untrain that level of muscle memory.
 

krazy2k

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Agreed.

Kyler can study film 24/7, which I’m sure he studies a lot (instead of focusing on a quote from COVID times), I don’t think it will ever matter because he’s just too afraid to stand in the pocket & get hit hard due to his height.

Could surprise, but it is what it is.
Exactly. And that is why it is unlikely KM ever gets the Cardinals back to the playoffs while he's here. Doesn't matter how much talent is around him. He will still scramble around under pressure like a chicken with its head cut off and fail to see receivers downfield trying to get open while he scrambles. BTW, only 20 pages to go to get to 200...You can do it!
 

Chopper0080

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Exactly. And that is why it is unlikely KM ever gets the Cardinals back to the playoffs while he's here. Doesn't matter how much talent is around him. He will still scramble around under pressure like a chicken with its head cut off and fail to see receivers downfield trying to get open while he scrambles. BTW, only 20 pages to go to get to 200...You can do it!
I think he is good enough to get the Cardinals to a playoff game but I don’t believe he can multiple playoff games in a season.
 

cardinals2025

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Agreed.

Kyler can study film 24/7, which I’m sure he studies a lot (instead of focusing on a quote from COVID times), I don’t think it will ever matter because he’s just too afraid to stand in the pocket & get hit hard due to his height.

Could surprise, but it is what it is.

Kyler got sacked the most in his career the year we went 11-6. So that kinda breaks a whole in the arguement a bit right there. That was the thing. Even though he took more sacks, he turned it over less and the defense was good enough that year to hold more leads. If this is the trade off I think most Cardinals fans would go with that.

The vast majority of his INT’s came after holding the ball for more than 2.5 seconds last years. So his options should really be, get rid of it quickly, scramble and run, scramble and throw it away, scramble and find the open man, or just go down. When he tries to make heroic throws while facing pressure in the pocket off his back foot is when there are issues.

I don’t think he is afraid. I think it is just instinct to scramble. When he actually got hit hard last year like vs the Jets, he got up and threw 2 perfect passes.
Idk if I was that small I might be afraid of getting hit too. Also when you can run 20-25 mph why wouldn’t you think you can always get away from the pressure like he did vs the Rams?

I think that video has truth to it and it is just a part of Kyler’s game that is a trade off for his ability to run so well. But he also left out plays where Kyler got pressured like with Ramsey and Campbell in the MIA game and still made great plays. He got sacked the least last year too so its a strange arguement.

Problem is this is a hard issue to solve and it is not just unique to him.
I dont think this is the main reason for why Kyler threw bad INTs at times last season though.

And isn’t it true that like most QB’s except those in the top 5 also respond negatively to pressure?

No one is expecting Kyler to be a top 5 QB. But this is the type of issue that can still exist while he is a top 8-10 QB. The way you tackle this issue is by having a strong running game and a great defense to take the pressure off of him. Most of Kyler’s INT’s came after holding onto the ball for more than 2.5 seconds believe it or not. When he was decisive and got the ball out quick he was more accurate.

Especially this year when our defense alone might be able to win us a game or two by themselves. So while I think this argument is legit, we can’t really do much about it so it is better to think about his issues that could actually change.
 
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cardinals2025

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oh i believe it alright

Petzing can we also please have more plays under center and run more RPOs?

2024 Kyler in RPO.

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Alot more inconsistent for his career after 2.5 seconds.

Once again his numbers in RPO and Under Center are better than doing anything else.

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Petzing
 

dreamcastrocks

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Petzing can we also please have more plays under center and run more RPOs?

2024 Kyler in RPO.

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Alot more inconsistent for his career after 2.5 seconds.

Once again his numbers in RPO and Under Center are better than doing anything else.

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Petzing
Bro, I'll tell you what. I appreciate you keeping this thread going...
 

Chopper0080

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That 2.5 second thing...
Maybe that's because he is a single read QB
Kind of. He plays QB like I play madden. He knows where he wants to go with the play vs certain defenses, and tries to diagnose those pre-snap so he knows where he is going with the ball. Then post snap, he either delivers the ball to the predetermined read, or the defense is different, he gets flustered, and then starts running around.
 

cardinals2025

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That 2.5 second thing...
Maybe that's because he is a single read QB

In the pocket mostly yes. When he gets outside the pocket, he does things like vs the Rams in week 2.

We need to take more advantage of the fact that Kyler is over 70% completion and very low turnover ratio when in No Huddle or doing RPO.

When the defense can be easily confused or caught out of position, life is easy for him.



Petzing needs to be careful about using the same exact plays over again in HUGE situations.

Remember Kyler's scramble for the first down to the outside vs the Dolphins on 3rd and 3?

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2:45

Same play attempted vs a SEA defense in SEA that obviously saw that game tape.

Witherspoon shot the gap. Kyler had nowhere to go and the release valve throw was horrible.

Different formation, but the motion might of gave it away.

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