kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
Man if this goes badly we're gonna be stuck on "He needs better weapons" on the excuse-o-meter for the whole season. We did nothing to help him this offseason.
Kyler Murray Debate Thread
- Thread starter Chris_Sanders
- Start date
BirdGangThing
Murd Watcher
like a fine wine an offense is supposed to get better with time
cardinals2025
Veteran
Prove me wrong.
The 13-9 vs the Rams was better than Stafford vs Purdy, Darnold vs JAX and Geno vs CHI.
We finished November to January going 4-5, which could have been better if Kyler, our offensive line or our defense played better.
In 2025, with the talent we added, one of those things will happen maybe multiple.
And there are no excuses for this year when our defense is projected to be better than 2021 when we won 11 games.
There is no "he needed more weapons." The weapons are enhanced when the def gives us more opportunities to score with a short field.
That is how the AZ Cardinals scored MORE PTS in 2021 with LESS OFFENSIVE YARDS than in 2020 and had 3 MORE WINS.
cardinals2025
Veteran
I wonder if anyone wants to take the time to respond to this without snark or mentioning 2020 and 2021.
Might as well evaluate Stafford from when he had Beckham and Kupp too if you want to act like Murray hasn't changed.
It seems what we should all be able to agree on is that the Rams off and def line dominated in the 2nd half of the season.
Which bailed out Stafford in multiple games, including the playoff game vs Darnold, when he finally played well for a change.
But he only needed to score 10 pts to win that game too. You can can prob put 20 starting NFL QBs in 2nd half of season on the Rams and they end up vs PHI.
*2024
(INCLUDED JUST FOR KEROUAC'S REFERENCE)
QUESTION:
Murray is 7-10 in 2023-2024 in 2nd half of season.
How many of those types of games will be winnable this year, even if he plays the exact same way?
I GUESS THE ANSWER MUST BE ZERO.
Cuz I forgot our team got worse not better.
And anyone who gives other QB's excuses for "injured players" is a hypocrite cuz you don't do the same for ours.
If Kyler had an 11 QBR he would be crucificed by the fanbase even if the ASU players were his offense.
Might as well evaluate Stafford from when he had Beckham and Kupp too if you want to act like Murray hasn't changed.
It seems what we should all be able to agree on is that the Rams off and def line dominated in the 2nd half of the season.
Which bailed out Stafford in multiple games, including the playoff game vs Darnold, when he finally played well for a change.
But he only needed to score 10 pts to win that game too. You can can prob put 20 starting NFL QBs in 2nd half of season on the Rams and they end up vs PHI.
*2024
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(INCLUDED JUST FOR KEROUAC'S REFERENCE)
QUESTION:
Murray is 7-10 in 2023-2024 in 2nd half of season.
How many of those types of games will be winnable this year, even if he plays the exact same way?
I GUESS THE ANSWER MUST BE ZERO.
Cuz I forgot our team got worse not better.
And anyone who gives other QB's excuses for "injured players" is a hypocrite cuz you don't do the same for ours.
If Kyler had an 11 QBR he would be crucificed by the fanbase even if the ASU players were his offense.
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I'm optimistic, but... projected to be top 10 in the league? By whom? In 2021 they were 11th in points allowed and 11th in yards allowed.
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Nobody here gives a damn about Stafford, darnold, or Purdy.
Other teams QB's sucking has zero bearing on whether or not our QB sucks.
Unless we are at the, " well at least he doesn't suck as bad as them" stage?
BirdGangThing
Murd Watcher
NFL writer offers 'bold prediction' regarding Kyler Murray's future with Cardinals
Murray first became the subject of trade rumors before he signed a five-year contract extension reportedly worth $230.5M with $160M guaranteed in the summer of 2022.
www.yardbarker.com
So, you're saying that if you take away the games where he choked in the second half of the season, he didn't choke too badly in the second half of the season.
(a) That's not how this works
(b) That's still not true:
2024 games 1-10:
- 6-4 record, 12 TD, 3 INT (4:1), 7.5 y/a, 100.8 passer rating, ~66.3 QBR
2024 games 11-17:
- 2-5 record, 9 TD, 8 INT (1.1:1), 6.8 y/a, 86.9 passer rating, ~56.1 QBR
2024 games 11-17, minus Seattle games:
- 2-3 record, 7 TD, 5 INT (1.4:1), 6.6 y/a, ~89.5 passer rating, ~59.8 QBR
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Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
You know, I could picture an all-in scenario next season. Should the defense gel and play how we hope they can, and the offense look good, but we fail to reach the playoffs due to Kyler's choking...I could see my way to trading Kyler and using that extra draft capital and other capital to trade up for a top QB. The all-in move. Kind of like when KC was poised to break out before drafting Mahommey.NFL writer offers 'bold prediction' regarding Kyler Murray's future with Cardinals
Murray first became the subject of trade rumors before he signed a five-year contract extension reportedly worth $230.5M with $160M guaranteed in the summer of 2022.
blindseyed
I'm saying you ARE stuck in Wichita
Not Kylers fault.....lol
ASUCHRIS
ONE HEART BEAT!!!
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2002
- Posts
- 18,269
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- 17,814
You really don't know anything about a QB until after his first decade.
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
Let’s wait until he retires to make any evaluations.
Ouchie-Z-Clown
I'm better than Mulli!
I’m so hesitant to press the ignore button and miss out on understanding many of these comical responses.
blindseyed
I'm saying you ARE stuck in Wichita
You can always temporarily un ignore to get the context ... lol
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Damn pesky facts!
Who told you to bring those in here?!
cardinals2025
Veteran
I am saying is it a fair evaluation to judge his 2nd half of the season by zoning in on 3 bad throws vs SEA?
And is Kyler 100% Responsible for losing both games to SEA.
The fact Connor could only manage 10 yards in SEA and the offensive line buckled so Murray got sacked 5 times, was irrelevant?
"CHOKING" on the road vs a top 10 defense when you can't run the ball or get a block.
3 INTS FOR MURRAY IN 2 GAMES...WHICH ALSO MAGICALLY JUDGES THE OTHER 7 2ND HALF GAMES WITHOUT NEEDING RESULTS.
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cardinals2025
Veteran
Does it mean anything that your expectations of how Kyler should play in the 2nd half of the season was achieved by 0 NFC West QBs last year?
When Darnold wins 12-7 vs JAX while throwing 3 INTs, relying on the defense and 4 FGs...that is called being bailed out.
When Stafford relies on FG's to beat SF 12-6, that is called being bailed out.
When Stafford relies on 13 pts at home vs the below average AZ def, that is called being bailed out.
When Geno Smith beats CHI 6-3, that is called being bailed out.
When Purdy has a 10 QBR vs the Rams, that is not called choking?
When Purdy loses to BUF 35-10, that is not called choking?
When Kyler Murray loses 36-33 to CAR after forcing OT, what exactly is that called?
When Kyler Murray manufactures 22 points vs a MIN def avging 16 at home, what exactly is that called?
When Kyler throws 2 INTs vs MIN, who avg getting around 2 takeaways at home, what exactly is that called?
Did Kyler ever get "bailed out" last year? No and AZ fans expect more out of their QB than that. That is not something he should even need. Always having a superior defense, a great offensive line, an amazing Owner, GM and Coach. Kyler has not excuse to need help, especially since he has always been perfectly healthy. An immature young QB was headed to a great situation when he got drafted here. Lot of assistance to improve his game and attitude. The right people in charge.
I love how fans of this team don't give a crap about when other QB's get breaks or help.
They just want to deny the fact that Kyler should even be allowed to have those things as an option sometimes.
BTW PURDY JUST GOT $265 MILLION.
And he would do so much better for us than Kyler if we drafted him. You guys have no idea.
The SF defense being top 5 multiple years, top 10 oline, multiple superstars on offense, good coach/GM have NOTHING TO DO WITH HIS SUCCESS.
Be objective about our other players at least.
2023-2025:
Kittle > Ertz/Mcbride
Samuel, Jennings, Aiyuk > Brown/Harrison, Wilson, Dorch
Mccaffrey > Connor
SF Oline > AZ Oline
BUT on this forum, only this part matters and it is quantified like this.
Purdy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kyler.
Stafford >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kyler.
Geno >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kyler.
=
NO HOPE. NO OPTIMISM. NO BELIEF ANYTHING CAN CHANGE.
ITS PATHETIC.
Jonathan Gannon Opening Press Conference 2023:
"There is alot of people that have helped me be in the seat that I'm in right now. But ultimately you got to make
your own mind up and have sustained positive attitude that I'm gonna get whatever I need to do in my heart and I
my mind to get it done and ultimately if it is to be it's up to me and that's the attitude that I like for our players to have as well."
Monti Ossenfort Opening Press Conference 2023:
"I'm excited to embark on this next stage in Cardinals football. We're going to focus on a completely unified message across the general manager, the head coach and ownership to what exactly we want to be as a football organization. We're going to Institute a thorough and exhaustive scouting process. We are going to turn over every stone to find the right players for this team. We are not just collecting Talent, we're going to build a team. We're going to look for the right type of players. Ego will not be tolerated in this organization. We are going to look for focused, driven people that are willing to put the team first at every step of the way. Hey no one here is happy about the results of last year. But it's not too long ago that this team was in very good position. I was witness to it firsthand two years ago when this organization came into Tennessee in Nissan Nissan stadium and ran all over us and that's what we're going to get back to."
Trust the plan Q.
Kyler can be our Jalen Hurts.
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kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
Geno and Seattle after week 10: 6-2
Stafford and LARM after week 10: 6-2
Kyler and ARI after week 10: 2-5
You get how these are not the same, right?
BirdGangThing
Murd Watcher
for the last time i predicted we'd have 11 wins this year - im not a darksider i just think you're not very good at conveying anything - im a logic and pattern guy which basically makes me dyslexic when i read your random fantastic reasonings - and this obsession to quantify nonrelative stats you believe proves murray to be better than he's shown - you read the replies - either we all have comprehension problems or you're not very good at presenting your (for lack of abetter word) data
but im still rooting for you and enjoy our interactions
cardinals2025
Veteran
Everyone DYOR on how the other NFC West QB's played in the 2nd half of 2024 then and compare it to our QB.
People are obsessed with wins and losses as if it is the defining metric of how good the QB is. It isn't in the NFC West.
And it isn't for Justin Herbert or Derrick Carr either.
Sometimes things are more complex than "he always chokes."
Anyone ever think about the fact that having less opportunities to choke means you won"t choke as much?
If the rest of your team is extremely talented, the QB has less chances to screw up. IE Jalen Hurts.
How many of you put Jalen Hurts and Jerod Goff in your top 5 QBS?
But they have all those regular season wins and Hurts has a superbowl win.
So why wouldn't Hurts be a top 5 QB?
Maybe someone can figure that one out and understand how it relates to Kyler.
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BirdGangThing
Murd Watcher
who are these people? id like to buy them a beer
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
The elite QBs in some order are Mahomes, Lamar, Josh Allen, and Joe Burrow. IMO, they're the unimpeachable top tier.
There are four of them.
There's a lot of wiggle room on the 5th. There's a good argument that right now Jalen Hurts is the fifth. There's a less-good-but-still-reasonable argument that Jared Goff is actually the fifth.
I don't think there are a lot of good arguments that Kyler Murray is the fifth, or sixth, or seventh.
Maybe you could modify your assertion from (what I take to be) "Kyler Murray is good" to "Kyler Murray is good enough." I think that's the median position.
Cardinals' Biggest Question Revolves Around Kyler Murray
After the 2025 NFL Draft, the Arizona Cardinals have already begun to address some of the biggest issues and most glaring questions surrounding their roster.
www.yardbarker.com
Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
@cardinals2025 I'm sure if you make the text even larger, color and bold all the text, your points will make so much more sense and be highly relevant.
Oh, just in case:
Oh, just in case:
