Kyler Murray Debate Thread

[Cbus cardsfan]

Yeah, no. The Stillers are a joke in Pittsburgh now. Once that defense ages out--very soon now--that team will bottom out. Tomlin hasn't been anything in years. He's Ken Whisenhunt part deux now. "The standard is the standard" means it's standard to lose in the playoffs, if you even make it that far.

Remind me again, how may losing season has Tomlin had? Just because Steeler fans are fed up doesn't mean a thing. OSU fans wanted Ryan Day fired after losing to Michigan this past year too.
If the standard is to NEVER have a losing record, I'm kind of okay with that.

 

[SECTION 11]

Ya, I will go with “Section 11, Vibraslap” over AZJace every time!!

Damn straight home dough.

 

[Mulli]

Damn straight home dough.

Amen, my brutha

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Also from Harmon

Usage also needs to improve from Drew Petzing. These were some quotes on his usage:

"He had four in space attempts which is one of the lowest attempts in reception perception history."
"You can't have the 4th overall pick and this craftsman in MHJ running Alec Pearce routes but that is kind of what they did."
"Much of the projection just involves things that is outside of MHJ control... he is winning in this capacity but he is not getting the ball."

Running Alec Pearce routes when they're pretty much the opposite profile is something.

 

[PDXChris]

This was an interesting play that an ESPN writer called out. He said that MHJ led the league in contested targets with 40 last year and here is one. Slow it down and watch how Kyler is locked in on MHJ from the moment he gets the ball and missed Wilson and Dortch both open underneath on a 3rd and 3.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

He said this and I wonder the same. Did Kyler like the match up or was it the coaches call?

Kyler Murray clearly treated Harrison this same way -- whether it was because he really held Harrison in that esteem, or because he was coached to throw it to Harrison no matter the circumstances, I don't know. Murray would default to a Harrison one-on-one on the backside of concepts when the frontside was available to read out. Not the wrong decision, just a telling one. And it was doubly telling when we consider that these throws weren't really going all that well, yet the Cardinals stayed on them anyway.

Will Harrison break out? Can McConkey be a No. 1? Key questions on 13 second-year NFL WRs

We answered big questions about top receivers from the 2024 draft class, including Marvin Harrison Jr., Ladd McConkey and Malik Nabers.

www.espn.com

 

[kerouac9]

This was an interesting play that an ESPN writer called out. He said that MHJ led the league in contested targets with 40 last year and here is one. Slow it down and watch how Kyler is locked in on MHJ from the moment he gets the ball and missed Wilson and Dortch both open underneath on a 3rd and 3.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

He said this and I wonder the same. Did Kyler like to the match up for was it the coaches call?

Will Harrison break out? Can McConkey be a No. 1? Key questions on 13 second-year NFL WRs

We answered big questions about top receivers from the 2024 draft class, including Marvin Harrison Jr., Ladd McConkey and Malik Nabers.

www.espn.com

TO me that looks like quick-game where Kyler sees single coverage and is expecting to win against it.

 

[Mulli]

You all have plenty of time to dissect every KM decision before next season starts. Should should totally do it.

 

[Mulli]

Do you all remember that play from September where Kyler did that thing instead of doing the other thing?

Why did he do that!?

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I hope this thread never dies.

 

[football karma]

This was an interesting play that an ESPN writer called out. He said that MHJ led the league in contested targets with 40 last year and here is one. Slow it down and watch how Kyler is locked in on MHJ from the moment he gets the ball and missed Wilson and Dortch both open underneath on a 3rd and 3.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

He said this and I wonder the same. Did Kyler like the match up or was it the coaches call?

Will Harrison break out? Can McConkey be a No. 1? Key questions on 13 second-year NFL WRs

We answered big questions about top receivers from the 2024 draft class, including Marvin Harrison Jr., Ladd McConkey and Malik Nabers.

www.espn.com

im not seeing the issue here.

He hits his back foot, has his WR1 with 1 on 1 / no safety help. He throws a good ball.

I think half the reason Wilson/Dortch are open because the moment Kyler throws the ball, the zone coverage turns to where the ball goes.

In an alternate world where the ball went to Dortch, the film would have shown MHJ running free down the sideline (as his guy turned to where the ball went) and this would be an example of a sure fire TD being passed up for a 3 yard completion

I think on this play, Kyler can be criticized (a bit) on the pass: a ball with more air thrown closer to the 20 yard line would have allowed MHJ's long strides to gain more separation -- but the read was a good one

 

[kerouac9]

im not seeing the issue here.

He hits his back foot, has his WR1 with 1 on 1 / no safety help. He throws a good ball.

I think half the reason Wilson/Dortch are open because the moment Kyler throws the ball, the zone coverage turns to where the ball goes.

In an alternate world where the ball went to Dortch, the film would have shown MHJ running free down the sideline (as his guy turned to where the ball went) and this would be an example of a sure fire TD being passed up for a 3 yard completion

I think on this play, Kyler can be criticized (a bit) on the pass: a ball with more air thrown closer to the 20 yard line would have allowed MHJ's long strides to gain more separation -- but the read was a good one

Michael Wilson is on the inside of a rub route; he's probably the designed target here (otherwise why risk the OPI call?). Kyler sees what should be a good matchup and expects MHJ to be looking for the back shoulder throw.

 

[PDXChris]

im not seeing the issue here.

He hits his back foot, has his WR1 with 1 on 1 / no safety help. He throws a good ball.

I think half the reason Wilson/Dortch are open because the moment Kyler throws the ball, the zone coverage turns to where the ball goes.

In an alternate world where the ball went to Dortch, the film would have shown MHJ running free down the sideline (as his guy turned to where the ball went) and this would be an example of a sure fire TD being passed up for a 3 yard completion

I think on this play, Kyler can be criticized (a bit) on the pass: a ball with more air thrown closer to the 20 yard line would have allowed MHJ's long strides to gain more separation -- but the read was a good one

There wasn't a criticism there. It was more the question of was the play designed to go to MHJ or did Kyler make that decision. The article mentioned MHJ led the league in Contested Targets with 40 and that MHJ was asked to NOT create separation, what ever that means. I just found the first part of this question interesting. It was a nice throw and even nicer break up by the CB. MHJ should have come down with it, and hopefully, he will more often this year.

 

[602 Native]

Petzing better get his crap together this season.

"Harrison simply was not used creatively last season, when he had 885 yards and eight TDs. He was asked to play the game on hard mode as a rookie, winning all of his catches through contact. He was never hidden from the opponent's best cover man. He could have won a few more jump balls than he did, but Murray could have thrown him a few better jump balls, and offensive coordinator Drew Petzing also certainly could have eased his burden with a bunch set or two. I was wholly unimpressed by the Cardinals' plan for Harrison last season and remain accordingly optimistic on his future as a good NFL wide receiver."

 

[kerouac9]

Petzing better get his crap together this season.

"Harrison simply was not used creatively last season, when he had 885 yards and eight TDs. He was asked to play the game on hard mode as a rookie, winning all of his catches through contact. He was never hidden from the opponent's best cover man. He could have won a few more jump balls than he did, but Murray could have thrown him a few better jump balls, and offensive coordinator Drew Petzing also certainly could have eased his burden with a bunch set or two. I was wholly unimpressed by the Cardinals' plan for Harrison last season and remain accordingly optimistic on his future as a good NFL wide receiver."

I agree with this completely.

 

[DaHilg]

There wasn't a criticism there. It was more the question of was the play designed to go to MHJ or did Kyler make that decision. The article mentioned MHJ led the league in Contested Targets with 40 and that MHJ was asked to NOT create separation, what ever that means. I just found the first part of this question interesting. It was a nice throw and even nicer break up by the CB. MHJ should have come.down wktb it and hopefully we will more often this year.

He wasn’t.. it was terrible offensive passing play designs all season.

 

[Chopper0080]

Petzing better get his crap together this season.

"Harrison simply was not used creatively last season, when he had 885 yards and eight TDs. He was asked to play the game on hard mode as a rookie, winning all of his catches through contact. He was never hidden from the opponent's best cover man. He could have won a few more jump balls than he did, but Murray could have thrown him a few better jump balls, and offensive coordinator Drew Petzing also certainly could have eased his burden with a bunch set or two. I was wholly unimpressed by the Cardinals' plan for Harrison last season and remain accordingly optimistic on his future as a good NFL wide receiver."

I also agree with this.

 

[602 Native]

He wasn’t.. it was terrible offensive passing play designs all season.

What's crazy is that there were times where the play calling was inspired and others where it looked like it was out of the 40s. I am hoping that our guys just needed to mature in his offense.

 

[Stout]

Remind me again, how may losing season has Tomlin had? Just because Steeler fans are fed up doesn't mean a thing. OSU fans wanted Ryan Day fired after losing to Michigan this past year too.
If the standard is to NEVER have a losing record, I'm kind of okay with that.

And that's all that matters to him--his "never have a losing season" legacy. It means he never takes any chances, stays conservative, and clings to said legacy. If you'd be happy with never having a losing record but never winning another playoff game again, ever, then we do not see eye to eye. Because that's where the Stillers are headed under his stewardship. They haven't won a playoff game in 8 years and haven't always even made the playoffs, and that doesn't look to change anytime soon. Like I said, I hate the Stillers and am thrilled he's their coach. That says a lot.

 

[Chopper0080]

TO me that looks like quick-game where Kyler sees single coverage and is expecting to win against it.

Agree. I think Wilson was the first read but Kyler saw single and decided to throw a low % jump ball. On 3rd down and 3 Kyler just needs to take the gimme and move the chains. More situational awareness that I think Kyler lacks at times. The defense is giving you that for a reason. That's a 2nd and 3 decision vs a 3rd and 3 decision.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

I hope this thread never dies.

It'll still be going in a couple of years even though K1 will be competing up in Canada.

 

[DaHilg]

Agree. I think Wilson was the first read but Kyler saw single and decided to throw a low % jump ball. On 3rd down and 3 Kyler just needs to take the gimme and move the chains. More situational awareness that I think Kyler lacks at times. The defense is giving you that for a reason. That's a 2nd and 3 decision vs a 3rd and 3 decision.

I disagree.. defenses today want you to dink and dunk between the 20s - meaningless yards for the most part. You need to take your shots when they make sense. Single coverage with a WR1 that’s 6-4 with a 5-10 corner should be a no brainer and a potential for a game breaking play.

Cover 2 and variations of it have really limited explosive plays across the NFL. When you don’t have a safety coming over top on your WR1, it’s a no brainer to take that shot to get an explosive play. Us not converting these type of plays and getting a TON of garbage yards between the 20s is what we lacked last year resulting in more FGs than any of us wanted. It also made us the most boring offense in the NFL.

 

[DaHilg]

… and it made us EXTREMELY predictable.

 

[BirdGangThing]

kyler didn't go to the playoffs in 2020 when he rushed for over 800 yards but he did in 2021 rushing for about half that

what i like tho is the 7.3 avg last year - i'd say some of that's actually on petzing scheming nicely

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[oaken1]

kyler didn't go to the playoffs in 2020 when he rushed for over 800 yards but he did in 2021 rushing for about half that

what i like tho is the 7.3 avg last year - i'd say some of that's actually on petzing scheming nicely

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I am in the minority around here in that I do not want Kyler to be a video game QB... the QB's job is to get the ball to other players. I dont want to see him rushing,...I just want to see him scrambling to buy some time for a guy to get open.
His rushing should only happen when he scrambles and sees that the defense screwed up and left him twenty yards of open field.....then you just gotta take it.
I mean, hell, look what Steve Bono did to us.....

 

[DaHilg]

With

kyler didn't go to the playoffs in 2020 when he rushed for over 800 yards but he did in 2021 rushing for about half that

what i like tho is the 7.3 avg last year - i'd say some of that's actually on petzing scheming nicely

You must be registered for see images attach

without a doubt, no one can argue PetzTrash had a good run game. Would have been better with more designed QB runs, roll outs and some sort of a passing scheme that was tailored to his #1 WR.

I’m skeptical, but like a few said earlier hoping he’s going to adapt his schemes out of 1985.

Btw what’s Kyler’s record again when he rushes at least 8 times? Something ridiculous like 14-2 or similar.