Kyler Murray Debacle Thread

HairZach

Hall of Famer
Joined
Sep 7, 2020
Posts
2,132
Reaction score
4,630
Location
VA
I will never understand what happened to this version of Kyler.

It's a damn shame and so Cardinalesque

You must be registered for see images attach
Defenses are forcing him to throw to the middle of the field where he can't see, guarding the sidelines and deep shots. Pass rushers are playing contain and keeping him in the pocket, where again he can't see. He can't consistently escape the pocket anymore.

Kyler has huge limitations as a passer, but tries to make up for it with his running ability. It hasnt been working for 4 seasons now. The 2021 version of Kyler will never come back. Soft zone defenses with 2 deep safeties are Kyler's kryptonite and everyone plays that way now. From 2012-2021 most defenses were clamping down on the run game and playing single high, which Kyler's skillset excels against.

If you look at Kylers highlights its always, a deepshot, a sideline pass, a scramble drill pass, or a scramble. Even in his peak years you never saw him complete a pass in rhythm over the middle of the field.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
Weenus O'Baggins

Weenus O'Baggins

Arizona Sports Simp
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
45,265
Reaction score
40,571
Location
Scottsdale, Az
Defenses are forcing him to throw to the middle of the field where he can't see, guarding the sidelines and deep shots. Pass rushers are playing contain and keeping him in the pocket, where again he can't see. He can't consistently escape the pocket anymore. Kyler has huge limitations as a passer, but tries to make up for it with his running ability. It hasnt been working for 4 seasons now. The 2021 version of Kyler will never come back. Soft zone defenses with 2 deep safeties are Kyler's kryptonite and everyone plays that way now.

He was the fourth highest rated passer in a clean pocket before he got benched. He was the 2nd worst when under pressure.

It's the exact opposite of this statement.
 

HairZach

Hall of Famer
Joined
Sep 7, 2020
Posts
2,132
Reaction score
4,630
Location
VA
He was the fourth highest rated passer in a clean pocket before he got benched. He was the 2nd worst when under pressure.

It's the exact opposite of this statement.
I never said Kyler was good under pressure. Edge rushers do play contain against Kyler, that doesnt mean he's being given a clean pocket. He's not completely blind in the pocket its just the splash zone that he has trouble seeing.

You're saying he had a good passer rating while clean over those 5 games. How was his ADOT or success rate?

His average depth of target was 5.99 yards, 64th in the league of all QBs that played this year. The only starter with a lower ADOT was Dillon Gabriel at 5.96. His success rate was 43.89%, 38th in the league. Passer rating isnt the stat you want to look at to get a full picture.
 
Last edited:

602 Native

ASFN Addict
Joined
Nov 1, 2023
Posts
5,050
Reaction score
9,302
Location
Gilbert
Unfortunately, this is very realistic.
If we had a qb in place like Maye or Lawrence we could hope for better.
Any rookie we draft will definitely have us pulling our hair out at times. But hey, Jayden Daniels did it.
Do we take a chance on Trey Lance or Malik Willis?
We have just scratched the service of questions.
First priority, Murray.
I can’t even imagine bringing in a dude like Trey Lance. Might have to think about gouging my eyes out as an alternative to watching.

After a failed rebuild and the GM that did it is still in charge. His first QB he brought in was Clayton Tune in the draft. We are so cooked.
 
OP
OP
Weenus O'Baggins

Weenus O'Baggins

Arizona Sports Simp
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
45,265
Reaction score
40,571
Location
Scottsdale, Az
I never said Kyler was good under pressure. Edge rushers do play contain against Kyler, that doesnt mean he's being given a clean pocket. He's not completely blind in the pocket its just the splash zone that he has trouble seeing.

You're saying he had a good passer rating while clean over those 5 games. How was his ADOT or success rate?

His average depth of target was 5.99 yards, 64th in the league of all QBs that played this year. His success rate was 43.89%, 38th in the league. Passer rating isnt the stat you want to look at to get a full picture.

I will try to find the stat I saw earlier. Here are the prior years. Basically he picks apart 4 man rushes but absolutely cannot handle the blitz

  • 2023 Season: His clean pocket completion percentage was 70.6%.
  • 2022 Season: He ranked as the 10th best quarterback passing from a clean pocket by EPA (Expected Points Added).
  • 2021 Season: He led the NFL in completion percentage from a clean pocket, completing 77.4% of his passes while being third in yards per attempt and sixth in passing yards.
 

slanidrac16

ASFN Icon
Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2002
Posts
18,129
Reaction score
20,896
Location
Plainfield, Il.
I can’t even imagine bringing in a dude like Trey Lance. Might have to think about gouging my eyes out as an alternative to watching.

After a failed rebuild and the GM that did it is still in charge. His first QB he brought in was Clayton Tune in the draft. We are so cooked.
How many of us would have been happy if we had brought in Daniel Jones? Of course Jones would have failed miserably here.
It certainly helps when you can turn and hand the ball to Jonathan Taylor.
 

602 Native

ASFN Addict
Joined
Nov 1, 2023
Posts
5,050
Reaction score
9,302
Location
Gilbert
How many of us would have been happy if we had brought in Daniel Jones? Of course Jones would have failed miserably here.
That’s my biggest problem. Is anyone able to turn this ship around?

No idea if even we brought in Prime Tom Brady to win games.
The organization is so inept in every facet of leadership. In the presser with Bidbilly and MO they were saying we are a talented team. I just want to laugh otherwise i would cry.
 

HairZach

Hall of Famer
Joined
Sep 7, 2020
Posts
2,132
Reaction score
4,630
Location
VA
How many of us would have been happy if we had brought in Daniel Jones? Of course Jones would have failed miserably here.
It certainly helps when you can turn and hand the ball to Jonathan Taylor.
The weird part about the Daniel Jones resurgence is he was doing it through the air. Their pass rate over expected was absurdly high at the start of games, then once they had a two score lead they would run Jonathan Taylor down their throats. Pass to score, run to win.

I think the key is have a Shane Steichen and a slightly taller QB. Riley Leonard just put up a great performance too. Jalen Hurts hasn't looked the same since he left.
 
Last edited:

QuebecCard

ASFN Addict
Joined
Mar 12, 2021
Posts
7,903
Reaction score
10,819
Location
North of the 49th.
The weird part about the Daniel Jones resurgence is he was doing it through the air. Their pass rate over expected was absurdly high at the start of games, then once they had a two score lead they would run Jonathan Taylor down their throats. Pass to score, run to win.

I think the key is have a Shane Steichen and a slightly taller QB.

Given that Daniel Jones is a FA, perhaps Indy is Kyler's next home.

Under the dome, a competent offensive-minded H-C, weapons and with a solid defence.

Just sayin'
 

daves

Keepin' it real!
Supporting Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2003
Posts
4,264
Reaction score
10,259
Location
Orange County, CA
I will try to find the stat I saw earlier. Here are the prior years. Basically he picks apart 4 man rushes but absolutely cannot handle the blitz
  • 2023 Season: His clean pocket completion percentage was 70.6%.
  • 2022 Season: He ranked as the 10th best quarterback passing from a clean pocket by EPA (Expected Points Added).
  • 2021 Season: He led the NFL in completion percentage from a clean pocket, completing 77.4% of his passes while being third in yards per attempt and sixth in passing yards.
This support's @HairZach's point.

As defenses changed starting around 2022, Murray's yards per attempt went from 7.9 (2021) to 6.1 (2022) and his QBR dropped from 63.2 (2021) to 53.6 (2022). He became Captain Checkdown. In 2023 his ypa went up a little to 6.7 but his QBR dropped even further to 48.0.

Completion percentage is not a valuable stat by which to measure a QB's performance when his ypa keeps dropping (6.0 this year!!) and especially for a QB who's notorious for turtling or running out of bounds behind the LOS rather than throwing the ball away.
 

slanidrac16

ASFN Icon
Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2002
Posts
18,129
Reaction score
20,896
Location
Plainfield, Il.
You must be registered for see images attach

I don't think Kyler posted anything like this when Kliff got fired.
Wow. The picture is a little clearer now. Maybe, just maybe, Gannon was forced to bench Kyler.
When you watch the press conference with BBMO, the came no where near endorsing or “ looking forward” Kyler returning.
Not to worry. I’m sure Monti has a plan.
 

DVontel

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 28, 2015
Posts
15,332
Reaction score
29,197

WisconsinCard

Herfin BIg Time
Joined
Apr 1, 2003
Posts
17,059
Reaction score
10,449
Location
In A Cigar Bar Near You
No.

Not a Cardinals game.
I haven’t.

Just pointless to ask & to defend your guy.
You attended an NFL game then you gave money to bidwill. Doesn't matter which stadium or which teams. Revenue sharing lives in the NFL. Who is my guy? I don't have a guy, my wife won't let me date, I asked
 

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
1,103,919
Posts
6,251,341
Members
6,415
Latest member
ABR
Back
Top