Kyler Murray Debacle Thread

[Stout]

No that is true. His performance hasn't met the expectations of that draft selection. Even still, you can win with that performance on a much cheaper contract.

Just like you can win with Brissett being so cheap if you didn't have Murray's 20% cap hit anchoring the team

Except you can't win with Murray at any number. He has proven to be win-averse. He is the opposite of clutch. He shrinks in the big moments.

 

[Stout]

Well in theory the team is better around them. Same thing with Brissett if not faced with Kylers contract

It doesn't matter. He is godawful in the clutch. Unless you put the classic Ravens around him and Trent Dilfer your way through the playoffs, you're winning squat.

 

[Stout]

To specifically answer this question...

Kyler can lead us to mediocrity and that is all. Without him, we are straight booty cheeks.

So he elevates a booty cheeks team to mediocrity, not anything beyond. We are done with this because no one wants mediocrity or ass.

Also, as long as the current management exists, we are far more likely to be close to 11% than exceed 43%

He elevated nothing. He had the healthy team and barely eeked out a few wins versus sucky teams. He would be doing worse than JB if he played with the current roster. Key-rist, are you becoming a stan too?

 

[DVontel]

Also how could you be mad about no Ceedee when the team went out and got you Dhop that year? Who was largely considered a top 3WR in the league still. Then went out and performed like it that season?

Probably because it would have prevented Keim from drafting a bust? You serious with this question?

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

Take all the stats , roll them up in a ball and go bowling.
If people can’t see this offense is being run better then I don’t know what to say.
Maybe we should ask McBride and Wilson what they think.

There are aspects of the offense that have improved. Overall, it's not meaningful

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

He elevated nothing. He had the healthy team and barely eeked out a few wins versus sucky teams. He would be doing worse than JB if he played with the current roster. Key-rist, are you becoming a stan too?

He had a not healthy team in the final 8 games of 2023 and produced better results than the 9 games before him.

Again, three years is not a small sample size.

I don't see how the term "stan" would apply when I say its not good enough and it is time to move on

 

[schutd]

Blowouts are even more exciting!

I need to know. You're not equating blowout losses with QB play are you? Its been your regular go to in this debate. garbage time stats! (definitely some validity to that) Blowout losses!( I really don't think its nearly as equitable to QB play as you purport to).

The blowout losses have come as the injuries to the D have mounted, and definitely once we were removed from the playoff picture a couple weeks back and we started playing the kids.

Certainly, 3 and outs lead to blowout losses against high powered offenses. But the crap OL play, the diminutive RB room all those things lead to 3 and outs, not just QB play. I just don't understand how you can watch these games, watch Brissett, and remember KM, and NOT think that while overall certainly a talent deficient QB in terms of getting us to the promised land, Brissett has a greater command of the offense. One can speculate as why, but my eyes tell me its his size, and his heart; a willingness to take a hit. Murray lacks both IMO.

Your rebuttals in this incessant argument seem to be all about zinger one liners. Not actual well considered analysis of how this is not a single player sport, and that one bad play by a single player has a ripple effect.

I don't want to watch Brissett much longer. He is slow of foot, and his release speed is infuriating. He waits a fraction of a second too long to start that long ass windup, and often that causes problems. But you're going to the matt for a QB that....well, if you cant see how ineffective he has been since well, 2021 (!!! that's 4 years!!!) then I don't know what to tell you. Yes, he's also been surrounded by the same organizational crap for those years, and that has to be accounted for. But KM simply doesn't pass the eye test, especially if you look past the flash plays.

Its time to move on. And I hope we can lock this thread down and never speak of it again.

 

[cardncubfan]

The defense is a bigger issue than the QB. It took Houston around 40 seconds & 2 plays to score their first TD on Sunday. We aren't stopping anyone.

 

[Stout]

He had a not healthy team in the final 8 games of 2023 and produced better results than the 9 games before him.

Again, three years is not a small sample size.

I don't see how the term "stan" would apply when I say its not good enough and it is time to move on

Because you're hard-core defending Kyler and claiming falsely that he elevated...anything. Unless by elevated you mean he's better than nobodies and career backups, then hooray! He "elevated" the team. Kyler is better than chopped suey as a QB. Duh! Winning more than backups and journeymen isn't elevating a team; it's bare minimum standard for a starting QB.

Kyler is what he is: a bottom half of the league starting QB and choke artist who can make flashy plays that sometimes win games, but is wildly inconsistent.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

The defense is a bigger issue than the QB. It took Houston around 40 seconds & 2 plays to score their first TD on Sunday. We aren't stopping anyone.

It definitely does not help when you have literally no running game either. Bam Knight just went onto IR and he was our leading rusher for the season with 249 yards. 249 yards in 14 games is your top RB?! You definitely are not beating many teams with that kind of unbalanced offense - when the other team does not need to worry about you running it at all and can load up against the pass all game long.

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

Because you're hard-core defending Kyler and claiming falsely that he elevated...anything. Unless by elevated you mean he's better than nobodies and career backups, then hooray! He "elevated" the team. Kyler is better than chopped suey as a QB. Duh! Winning more than backups and journeymen isn't elevating a team; it's bare minimum standard for a starting QB.

Kyler is what he is: a bottom half of the league starting QB and choke artist who can make flashy plays that sometimes win games, but is wildly inconsistent.

I agree that he is a bottom half of the league QB. I have him in like the 18-20 range, which is why we should move on.

I am just looking at the numbers and removing emotion out of it. Those numbers tell me this story:

He can elevate a dog crap team to mediocrity but he can't elevate a dog crap team to higher than mediocrity.

He is massively overpaid for his production and he hasn't lived up to his draft status.

Shane is correct that being overpaid and not living up to your draft status are problems. I would put that somewhere below Owner, GM, and HC based on the 2-16 record without him.

 

[Ronin]

Minnesota Vikings named top landing spot for $230 million quarterback in 2026 | Sporting News

Could the Vikings go all in on a quarterback trade?

www.sportingnews.com

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

Minnesota Vikings named top landing spot for $230 million quarterback in 2026 | Sporting News

Could the Vikings go all in on a quarterback trade?

www.sportingnews.com

I would guess KC with Mahomes done for the year on a one year deal because I don't believe anyone will trade for him and that contract.

 

[kerouac9]

Shane is correct that being overpaid and not living up to your draft status are problems.

I don’t think where Kyler was drafted seven years ago matters at all. His cap hold hasn’t prevented any potential moves.

Kyler’s mediocre play is the main problem with Kyler Murray.

 

[AsUpRoDiGy]

I don’t think where Kyler was drafted seven years ago matters at all. His cap hold hasn’t prevented any potential moves.

Kyler’s mediocre play is the main problem with Kyler Murray.

Kyler’s 9 to 5 mindset is the main problem with Kyler.

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

I don’t think where Kyler was drafted seven years ago matters at all. His cap hold hasn’t prevented any potential moves.

Kyler’s mediocre play is the main problem with Kyler Murray.

That is covered under his QB 18-20 ranking

 

[kerouac9]

Kyler’s 9 to 5 mindset is the main problem with Kyler.

We don’t know this. But he hasn’t done much in to dispel the impression and make it hard to cheer for him.

That is covered under his QB 18-20 ranking

Yes, but it seems like draft status and salary are reasons to pile on him than any actual “problem” caused for the franchise.

 

[602 Native]

K1 is the problem with the Cards guys. Just ask the KDS Crew.

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[602 Native]

We don’t know this. But he hasn’t done much in to dispel the impression and make it hard to cheer for him.



Yes, but it seems like draft status and salary are reasons to pile on him than any actual “problem” caused for the franchise.

Careful you might be labeled a K1 Stan for spitting these facts.

 

[602 Native]

Minnesota Vikings named top landing spot for $230 million quarterback in 2026 | Sporting News

Could the Vikings go all in on a quarterback trade?

www.sportingnews.com

And an NFC Championship appearance as well.
Gonna be hilarious and fully expose how terrible it is to play for the Cardinals.

 

[Mulli]

Far more likely Vikings stick with JJ McCarthy

 

[602 Native]

I need to know. You're not equating blowout losses with QB play are you? Its been your regular go to in this debate. garbage time stats! (definitely some validity to that) Blowout losses!( I really don't think its nearly as equitable to QB play as you purport to).

The blowout losses have come as the injuries to the D have mounted, and definitely once we were removed from the playoff picture a couple weeks back and we started playing the kids.

Certainly, 3 and outs lead to blowout losses against high powered offenses. But the crap OL play, the diminutive RB room all those things lead to 3 and outs, not just QB play. I just don't understand how you can watch these games, watch Brissett, and remember KM, and NOT think that while overall certainly a talent deficient QB in terms of getting us to the promised land, Brissett has a greater command of the offense. One can speculate as why, but my eyes tell me its his size, and his heart; a willingness to take a hit. Murray lacks both IMO.

Your rebuttals in this incessant argument seem to be all about zinger one liners. Not actual well considered analysis of how this is not a single player sport, and that one bad play by a single player has a ripple effect.

I don't want to watch Brissett much longer. He is slow of foot, and his release speed is infuriating. He waits a fraction of a second too long to start that long ass windup, and often that causes problems. But you're going to the matt for a QB that....well, if you cant see how ineffective he has been since well, 2021 (!!! that's 4 years!!!) then I don't know what to tell you. Yes, he's also been surrounded by the same organizational crap for those years, and that has to be accounted for. But KM simply doesn't pass the eye test, especially if you look past the flash plays.

Its time to move on. And I hope we can lock this thread down and never speak of it again.

Another fan that was a K1 hater that now wants to run away from backing JB.

Wait till next season when the franchise trots out some other derelict at QB.

How many more of you are there?

 

[TRW]

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LOL

 

[Shane]

The way the Kyler jockers talk about Kyler and how he is this awesome QB and the whole league knows it. Especially two specific posters. Then the trade market for Kyler should be alive and well. Let’s see what the Cards get for him. Especially considering how much salary they’re gonna have to eat makes Kyler super affordable. If he’s the player, they say he is. A $35 million salary for a player of his supposed caliber is nothing in today’s QB market. Let’s see how this plays out.

I mean with how they talk there should be a bidding war for his services because he’s just so damn special and good and most GMs know this(their words not me). On top of affordable.

 

[602 Native]

Far more likely Vikings stick with JJ McCarthy

They can still have JJ on the roster but they would be fools to start him over K1 given their talent and window.