Kyler Murray Debacle Thread

[Dback Jon]

And when Murray came in the final 8 games of 2023 it was the exact opposite. Multiple guys on the line hurt, ect...

This is not a small sample size in regards to the NFL.

There are a bunch of advanced analytics out there around QB play and they all have Kyler mid and Brissett below average. The wins reflect it.

Yup!

 

[Dback Jon]

Easy to do when you don't throw past 10 yards. He's simply boring to watch as well.

Blowouts are even more exciting!

 

[ajcardfan]

2025

192 passing yards per game at $48.2 million

246 passing yards per game at $3 million

any questions

Yes, who cares when we are getting our butts beat in the dirt?

 

[Stout]

I have been accused by many of being a Kyler stans, and so have other long-time posters.

Either way, against the rules, which as a "Super Moderator" BIM should know

You never used to be. But man, you have fallen hard for Kyler recently.

 

[Stout]

The only real reason he is part of the problem is he is eating up 19% of the cap. At half that he is fine.

lol He'd only be fine at any number if you didn't plan on going to the playoffs, let alone winning any playoff games.

 

[Stout]

Wins are the only measure that counts.

Instant defense response whenever presented anything anti-Kyler.

Serious question: What changed your posting pattern? You got seriously Teflon Kyler a while back this season. Why?

 

[Cheesebeef]

2023 YPRA No Murray 5.1 Record 1-8
2023 YPRA With Murray 5.2 Record 3-5

Right… so if you have NO QB, you won’t win.

Eh forget it. I know you’re not even gonna entertain this convo.

Sure. Kyler “carried” this team to a sterling 3-5 record, nominally better than when the team had a QB they literally traded from off the scrap heap a week before the season.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The only real reason he is part of the problem is he is eating up 19% of the cap. At half that he is fine.

Except he’s not half that. He’s all of that and only produces at half that.

THAT is why he’s part of the problem.

 

[Dback Jon]

You never used to be. But man, you have fallen hard for Kyler recently.

I have already stated it would be best for him to leave.
And I firmly believe that would a good coaching staff/Front Office, he can get a team into the playoffs. Is he top 10? nope Probably 15-20
I look at the last 30 games he started and see where yes, Kyler could be better, but the amount of bad coaching that cost the team 5-7 wins.

 

[Dback Jon]

Instant defense response whenever presented anything anti-Kyler.

Serious question: What changed your posting pattern? You got seriously Teflon Kyler a while back this season. Why?

Why? Because I don't think he is the major problem with this team. And started as trying to point out all the OTHER bigger issues IMHO with the team from GM on down. Then Brisket had one good game and the board went all gaga for a bad QB.

 

[Stout]

I have already stated it would be best for him to leave.
And I firmly believe that would a good coaching staff/Front Office, he can get a team into the playoffs. Is he top 10? nope Probably 15-20
I look at the last 30 games he started and see where yes, Kyler could be better, but the amount of bad coaching that cost the team 5-7 wins.

Just can't agree here. He has shown he is about as far from a big game QB as it is possible to be. He shrivels under pressure. This isn't me playing the whole dissing Kyler because he's an easy target thing. It's just the reality of what he's done in his career. 15-20 is probably a fair ranking for him. Sure, you can say bad coaching has cost the team wins, but the same goes for QB play. He has just not been good.

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

Except he’s not half that. He’s all of that and only produces at half that.

THAT is why he’s part of the problem.

It is a financial issue yes.

 

[Shane]

It is a financial issue yes.

I mean if you're completely ignoring the fact that he doesn't produce at the level or even close to the level a #1 overall pick should then yea that's the only problem. lol oh and think none of that lack of performance is his own fault.

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

I mean if you're completely ignoring the fact that he doesn't produce at the level or even close to the level a #1 overall pick should then yea that's the only problem. lol oh and think none of that lack of performance is his own fault.

No that is true. His performance hasn't met the expectations of that draft selection. Even still, you can win with that performance on a much cheaper contract.

Just like you can win with Brissett being so cheap if you didn't have Murray's 20% cap hit anchoring the team

 

[daves]

2025 season

With Murray 4.8 YPA Record 2-3
Without Murray 3.8 YPA Record 1-8

I mean he has elevated the coach by 32% on wins.

It looks as though you just showed that a viable running game is what enabled the wins (vs. two awful teams).

Also, record of teams against which the Cardinals managed their stellar 2-3 record: 34-36.
Record of teams against which the Cardinals went 1-8: 81-43-2.

Comparing 2-3 vs. 1-8 without context (or ignoring the context of the impotent running game) and concluding that Murray wasn't a major problem is simply confirmation bias.

 

[Russ Smith]

Haven't read thread in awhile so if this is in there already I apologize. A story in my feed said part of the issue between the Cards and Murray goes all the way back to the 2020 draft. Murray, as was reported at the time, wanted the Cards to take Ceedee Lamb, instead we took Isaiah Simmons. The Cards went 8-8, Murray was just under 4000 yards 26 TD 12 picks but Murray felt the Cards ignored his input and then in future years it just continued.

Makes me then wonder the obvious, after Kliff was fired and we hired Gannon, maybe Kyler wanted someone other than petzing and the two just never got on? It wasn't apparent early because Kyler was still rehabbing the knee so he only played part of that first year.

If true interesting, we hired a new coach and staff who went out of their way to talk about Kyler being a key to the whole thing, but they hired an OC that Kyler didn't really buy into?

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

Right… so if you have NO QB, you won’t win.

Eh forget it. I know you’re not even gonna entertain this convo.

Sure. Kyler “carried” this team to a sterling 3-5 record, nominally better than when the team had a QB they literally traded from off the scrap heap a week before the season.

I took you off ignore so I am entertaining all convos right now

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

lol He'd only be fine at any number if you didn't plan on going to the playoffs, let alone winning any playoff games.

Well in theory the team is better around them. Same thing with Brissett if not faced with Kylers contract

 

[Shane]

Haven't read thread in awhile so if this is in there already I apologize. A story in my feed said part of the issue between the Cards and Murray goes all the way back to the 2020 draft. Murray, as was reported at the time, wanted the Cards to take Ceedee Lamb, instead we took Isaiah Simmons. The Cards went 8-8, Murray was just under 4000 yards 26 TD 12 picks but Murray felt the Cards ignored his input and then in future years it just continued.

Makes me then wonder the obvious, after Kliff was fired and we hired Gannon, maybe Kyler wanted someone other than petzing and the two just never got on? It wasn't apparent early because Kyler was still rehabbing the knee so he only played part of that first year.

If true interesting, we hired a new coach and staff who went out of their way to talk about Kyler being a key to the whole thing, but they hired an OC that Kyler didn't really buy into?

Kyler would have wasted Ceedee Lamb

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

It looks as though you just showed that a viable running game is what enabled the wins (vs. two awful teams).

Also, record of teams against which the Cardinals managed their stellar 2-3 record: 34-36.
Record of teams against which the Cardinals went 1-8: 81-43-2.

Comparing 2-3 vs. 1-8 without context (or ignoring the context of the impotent running game) and concluding that Murray wasn't a major problem is simply confirmation bias.

Kyler has had similar running games for 2 out of 3 years with a far better record. This year his legs inflated the running game average a bit

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

Kyler would have wasted Ceedee Lamb

Recently likely. Dhop days no

 

[Shane]

Haven't read thread in awhile so if this is in there already I apologize. A story in my feed said part of the issue between the Cards and Murray goes all the way back to the 2020 draft. Murray, as was reported at the time, wanted the Cards to take Ceedee Lamb, instead we took Isaiah Simmons. The Cards went 8-8, Murray was just under 4000 yards 26 TD 12 picks but Murray felt the Cards ignored his input and then in future years it just continued.

Makes me then wonder the obvious, after Kliff was fired and we hired Gannon, maybe Kyler wanted someone other than petzing and the two just never got on? It wasn't apparent early because Kyler was still rehabbing the knee so he only played part of that first year.

If true interesting, we hired a new coach and staff who went out of their way to talk about Kyler being a key to the whole thing, but they hired an OC that Kyler didn't really buy into?

Also how could you be mad about no Ceedee when the team went out and got you Dhop that year? Who was largely considered a top 3WR in the league still. Then went out and performed like it that season?

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

Right… so if you have NO QB, you won’t win.

Eh forget it. I know you’re not even gonna entertain this convo.

Sure. Kyler “carried” this team to a sterling 3-5 record, nominally better than when the team had a QB they literally traded from off the scrap heap a week before the season.

To specifically answer this question...

Kyler can lead us to mediocrity and that is all. Without him, we are straight booty cheeks.

So he elevates a booty cheeks team to mediocrity, not anything beyond. We are done with this because no one wants mediocrity or ass.

Also, as long as the current management exists, we are far more likely to be close to 11% than exceed 43%

 

[Russ Smith]

Also how could you be mad about no Ceedee when the team went out and got you Dhop that year? Who was largely considered a top 3WR in the league still. Then went out and performed like it that season?

Because they ignored his input is my guess? I wanted Jeudy that year I may have mentioned it once or twice (-:. Even after the D Hop trade I was clear I wanted a WR but figured we wouldn't pick one. the other WR's were Fitz clearly at the end of the line, Kirk, and we were still hopeful Isabella would do something.

I can somewhat agree Kyler might have wasted Ceedee but remember the next year in the role Ceedee would have played, a mostly washed AJ Green had 54 catches 848 yards and 3 TD's, I have to think a year 2 Ceedee would have done better?

So if you're Kyler you wanted Lamb they ignored you and took a hybrid player who was a bust. The next year with Fitz gone they get Green, the season is going great then the Green Bay disaster happens, Green blows the game, D Hop goes out hurt in the same game, the season falls apart. We've all said it at some point the GB game broke Kyler and in particular that one throw to Green. So maybe a big part of why it broke him is in his mind he's thinking if you hadn't ignored me and picked Lamb, that play never happens?

 

[slanidrac16]

You understand Kyler has a 46.3 QBR and Brissett has a 44.3 right?

Take all the stats , roll them up in a ball and go bowling.
If people can’t see this offense is being run better then I don’t know what to say.
Maybe we should ask McBride and Wilson what they think.