Kyler Murray Debacle Thread

[daves]

So daves...you're basically repeating my critique of Kyler. Thank you.

Thats a different problem than he's not watching enough game film.

Its a physical problem that he hasnt sought out to overcome.

The purpose of my posting the Brady clip was it echoed what I've been saying.

I agree, but I'd go farther and say that even if Murray were a prototypical 6'4" pocket passer, he still doesn't put in the relentless preparation needed to be a top QB. He loves pumping iron and tossing the ball to his buddies, but that's nowhere near enough.

 

[Chopper0080]

Yeah it’s crazy that now it’s being spun as a negative. I don’t think Weinfuss is doing that on his own.

The aggregators are looking for content and engagement. They are looking to make a big deal about it. Seems weird for Weinfuss to bring it up without input from somewhere.

There is context need, right. There can be a difference between advocating for players vs having a say. WE will probably never know which it actually was.

 

[DVontel]

The Cardinals are a lousy organization

Would he be lying?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

JUST WOW! He is a mess if this is true... SMH

I don't get this one at all. You SHOULD loop your franchise QB in to personnel decisions.

The quarterback wanted his opinions heard on draft selections and on which players Arizona should sign in the offseason.

I see no reason to villify him for this stance...

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I don't get this one at all. You SHOULD loop your franchise QB in to personnel decisions.



I see no reason to villify him for this stance...

Parting ways with a "good" player would not be very pleasant for most on the board.

So for many, vilifying K1 is necessary to avoid the sense of loss, and to feel better about the separation.

 

[schutd]

Parting ways with a "good" player would not be very pleasant for most on the board.

So for many, vilifying K1 is necessary to avoid the sense of loss, and to feel better about the separation.

I dont need to feel better about the separation by "vilifying"a flawed, quart-of-a-billion-dollar QB who plays like Murray does. I couldn't feel better about saying goodbye. Its a bummer he is who he is. Its a bigger bummer that we waited 7 years to finally come to that conclusion, but its borderline understandable because he flashes other worldly traits at times (at least he did in the past). SO thank you for not applying your psych 101 analysis towards me.

Can't wait to to see if he can put it all together eventually. SOMEWHERE ELSE.

 

[602 Native]

Parting ways with a "good" player would not be very pleasant for most on the board.

So for many, vilifying K1 is necessary to avoid the sense of loss, and to feel better about the separation.

Many didn’t like Warner either and wanted Lienart to start just remember that.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

If you're still using 2022 arguments when JG has come out and said he watches a ton of film. Then we'll just agree to disagree.

Its easier to just blame his immaturity years ago for this cluster then realize he's just not special mentally & has physical limitations.

Quote please.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

We're in an AI age my friend.



I'll look for it specifically in time.

This was a bad recommendation by you. Per your recommended sourcing, ChatGPT :

I couldn’t find any reliable quote where Jonathan (Brian) Gannon specifically says “Kyler does plenty of film study.” There are a few relevant points from reporting, though:

What has been said / reported

• When Kyler’s massive contract was signed a few years ago, it initially included a clause requiring him to do at least 4 hours of weekly independent film study — a topic that stirred a lot of discussion.
• Murray publicly pushed back on the notion that he didn’t study enough, calling suggestions that he doesn’t take preparation seriously “disrespectful” and saying he does watch film and prepare.
• That controversial clause was later removed after becoming a distraction.
• Gannon has spoken positively about Murray as a quarterback and seems confident in him, but I didn’t find a clear statement from him framed as “Kyler studies plenty of film.”

So bottom line:

➡ No clear record I could find of Gannon directly saying “Kyler does plenty of film study.”


➡ What did happen is that Kyler was criticized in the past for his study habits because of that contract clause, he defended his preparation, and the clause was removed.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

So daves...you're basically repeating my critique of Kyler. Thank you.

Thats a different problem than he's not watching enough game film.

Its a physical problem that he hasnt sought out to overcome.

The purpose of my posting the Brady clip was it echoed what I've been saying.

I don’t know if you have a tough time with comprehension or just purposefully blind yourself to what daves saying. His physical limitation dictates that he put in MORE studying . . . like Bree’s, to be effective. We’ve never heard about that. It contradicts your position about Kyler’s study habits.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Would he be lying?

No. But that’s not a good reason not to prepare yourself better . . . in fact, if anything it should be MORE impetus to over prepare to overcome that hurdle.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Parting ways with a "good" player would not be very pleasant for most on the board.

So for many, vilifying K1 is necessary to avoid the sense of loss, and to feel better about the separation.

Coming from the guy who won’t wish him well when he’s no longer a cardinal . . . this is funny.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I dont need to feel better about the separation by "vilifying"a flawed, quart-of-a-billion-dollar QB who plays like Murray does. I couldn't feel better about saying goodbye. Its a bummer he is who he is. Its a bigger bummer that we waited 7 years to finally come to that conclusion, but its borderline understandable because he flashes other worldly traits at times (at least he did in the past). SO thank you for not applying your psych 101 analysis towards me.

Can't wait to to see if he can put it all together eventually. SOMEWHERE ELSE.

Crimson would be accurate if everyone here supported him and then on his way out they vilified him. If you’ve been critical of him prior to his obvious departure it’s not “vilification,” it’s just continued criticism.

 

[SoonerLou]

This was a bad recommendation by you. Per your recommended sourcing, ChatGPT :

I couldn’t find any reliable quote where Jonathan (Brian) Gannon specifically says “Kyler does plenty of film study.” There are a few relevant points from reporting, though:

What has been said / reported

• When Kyler’s massive contract was signed a few years ago, it initially included a clause requiring him to do at least 4 hours of weekly independent film study — a topic that stirred a lot of discussion.
• Murray publicly pushed back on the notion that he didn’t study enough, calling suggestions that he doesn’t take preparation seriously “disrespectful” and saying he does watch film and prepare.
• That controversial clause was later removed after becoming a distraction.
• Gannon has spoken positively about Murray as a quarterback and seems confident in him, but I didn’t find a clear statement from him framed as “Kyler studies plenty of film.”

So bottom line:

➡ No clear record I could find of Gannon directly saying “Kyler does plenty of film study.”


➡ What did happen is that Kyler was criticized in the past for his study habits because of that contract clause, he defended his preparation, and the clause was removed.

Your first mistake was using Chat GPT. That wasnt what I used. Should try using Google as it cobbles stuff better.

"He loves ball, he loves ball," Gannon said, according to The Athletic's Zak Keefer. "That was the other thing, the narrative on him — completely wrong. Completely wrong. Everything I’ve asked him to do, he’s done, more so."

Gannon has been thrilled with Murray's engagement in meetings, the way he has attached his rehab, his support of his teammates and more. He is working hard, studying hard, being a good teammate and a good leader.

Jonathan Gannon learning common Kyler Murray narratives are wrong

Prior to this offseason, the national perception of quarterback Kyler Murray has been off-balance at best. Whether it was about blowing up at head coach Kliff Kingsbury, appearing sulk on the sideline, reports he is a bad teammate who plays too many videogames and…

cardswire.usatoday.com

"Everything that we've asked of him, he's went above and beyond," Gannon said. "If you watch the tape, you know why I'm convicted. But it's not only the tape at that position. The other things that he brings to the table as a person, as a teammate, as a competitor, I absolutely love. Saddle me up; let's go. Just from a standpoint of respect and love and care and developing that relationship with him we kinda like hit it off. So feel really good about where he’s at and where he wants to go."

Kyler Murray's work, leadership praised by Jonathan Gannon, Budda Baker

To say that Kyler Murray has been a lightning rod since being selected No. 1 overall by the Arizona Cardinals in the 2019 draft would be an understatement, judging by the persistent outside noise that was often over the top but also at times justified. It…

cardswire.usatoday.com

"You couldn't ask for a better — what he's doing on the field, off the field, what he's doing for his game to improve his game, what he's doing for the offense leadershipwise, what he's doing for the team leadershiopwise," he said. "He's a sounding board for me. We have good candid conversations about what needs to get done and how do we get that done and I put a lot of expectation on him and he's been fulfilling all of it."

Kyler Murray's work, leadership praised by Jonathan Gannon, Budda Baker

To say that Kyler Murray has been a lightning rod since being selected No. 1 overall by the Arizona Cardinals in the 2019 draft would be an understatement, judging by the persistent outside noise that was often over the top but also at times justified. It…

cardswire.usatoday.com

I don’t know if you have a tough time with comprehension or just purposefully blind yourself to what daves saying. His physical limitation dictates that he put in MORE studying . . . like Bree’s, to be effective. We’ve never heard about that. It contradicts your position about Kyler’s study habits.

You do realize this started with you calling him intellectually LAZY.

My responses have been that intellectually lazy isnt the issue (at least according to the new regime)

He did himself no favors how he conducted himself early on his career. So if that lingers for you then ok.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Your first mistake was using Chat GPT. That wasnt what I used. Should try using Google as it cobbles stuff better.

Jonathan Gannon learning common Kyler Murray narratives are wrong

Prior to this offseason, the national perception of quarterback Kyler Murray has been off-balance at best. Whether it was about blowing up at head coach Kliff Kingsbury, appearing sulk on the sideline, reports he is a bad teammate who plays too many videogames and…

cardswire.usatoday.com

"Everything that we've asked of him, he's went above and beyond," Gannon said. "If you watch the tape, you know why I'm convicted. But it's not only the tape at that position. The other things that he brings to the table as a person, as a teammate, as a competitor, I absolutely love. Saddle me up; let's go. Just from a standpoint of respect and love and care and developing that relationship with him we kinda like hit it off. So feel really good about where he’s at and where he wants to go."

Kyler Murray's work, leadership praised by Jonathan Gannon, Budda Baker

To say that Kyler Murray has been a lightning rod since being selected No. 1 overall by the Arizona Cardinals in the 2019 draft would be an understatement, judging by the persistent outside noise that was often over the top but also at times justified. It…

cardswire.usatoday.com

"You couldn't ask for a better — what he's doing on the field, off the field, what he's doing for his game to improve his game, what he's doing for the offense leadershipwise, what he's doing for the team leadershiopwise," he said. "He's a sounding board for me. We have good candid conversations about what needs to get done and how do we get that done and I put a lot of expectation on him and he's been fulfilling all of it."

Kyler Murray's work, leadership praised by Jonathan Gannon, Budda Baker

To say that Kyler Murray has been a lightning rod since being selected No. 1 overall by the Arizona Cardinals in the 2019 draft would be an understatement, judging by the persistent outside noise that was often over the top but also at times justified. It…

cardswire.usatoday.com

You do realize this started with you calling him intellectually LAZY.

My responses have been that intellectually lazy isnt the issue (at least according to the new regime)

He did himself no favors how he conducted himself early on his career. So if that lingers for you then ok.

You realize there is not ONE WORD about him watching film in everything you posted above, right?

And the more stark reality is that on the field, we’ve seen no EVIDENCE that he’s watched more field or become a better student of the game as he’s seemingly just gotten worse over the years, becoming more and more limited as a passer. That absolutely should not happen if someone is both getting more experience and dedicating themselves in the film to learning their craft.

 

[kerouac9]

You realize there is not ONE WORD about him watching film in everything you posted above, right?

And the more stark reality is that on the field, we’ve seen no EVIDENCE that he’s watched more field or become a better student of the game as he’s seemingly just gotten worse over the years, becoming more and more limited as a passer. That absolutely should not happen if someone is both getting more experience and dedicating themselves in the film to learning their craft.

Seriously. Asked to cite evidence of his claim he condescendingly refers to AI and then cannot reproduce his proudly announced results.

Then shifts the goalposts to whether Gannon was excited about him. No one disagrees with that. In fact, it’s a cornerstone of the case that Gannon and Ossenfort don’t deserve “their own QB.” They started with it!

 

[SoonerLou]

You realize there is not ONE WORD about him watching film in everything you posted above, right?

And the more stark reality is that on the field, we’ve seen no EVIDENCE that he’s watched more field or become a better student of the game as he’s seemingly just gotten worse over the years, becoming more and more limited as a passer. That absolutely should not happen if someone is both getting more experience and dedicating themselves in the film to learning their craft.

Some players get worse it happens. Maybe Russell Wilson just stopped watching film. Same for Tua.

Seriously. Asked to cite evidence of his claim he condescendingly refers to AI and then cannot reproduce his proudly announced results.

Then shifts the goalposts to whether Gannon was excited about him. No one disagrees with that. In fact, it’s a cornerstone of the case that Gannon and Ossenfort don’t deserve “their own QB.” They started with it!

You're right
No direct quote, but these recycled articles that were posted here it was easy to see what he was talking about?
Some of the earlier AI stuff was from this

The conversations between head coach and signal caller can take place at anytime, anywhere, whether that’s right after Murray watches film with offensive coordinator Drew Petzing and quarterbacks coach Israel Woolfork or when Gannon is caught between a gate and a hard place like he was recently.

“I’m glad I have Bluetooth,” Gannon said with a grin. “Then I couldn’t get my gate open, so I’m like, ‘Eh, I’ve got to go.’

Kyler Murray's bond with Jonathan Gannon built on openness, trust

Arizona Cardinals quarterback Kyler Murray and head coach Jonathan Gannon haven't known each other long, but their relationship is tight.

arizonasports.com

JG saying narratives are wrong, he's done everything we asked off the field, he's went beyond what they asked. Its possible none of that has anything to do with film study. JG could have been talking about weightlifting. Or maybe he was lying.



I really dont care. If its a better narrative (or reality) that he never matured enough to take film seriously have at it.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

The other problem with Murray vs. Brees is Brees had very long arms that, like Brady said, gave him a higher release and could throw over the top. Murray has alligator arms to go with being shorter. That's another physical limitation.
Brady was spot on with Murray's lack of success throwing over the middle.

 

[Stout]

Your first mistake was using Chat GPT. That wasnt what I used. Should try using Google as it cobbles stuff better.

Jonathan Gannon learning common Kyler Murray narratives are wrong

Prior to this offseason, the national perception of quarterback Kyler Murray has been off-balance at best. Whether it was about blowing up at head coach Kliff Kingsbury, appearing sulk on the sideline, reports he is a bad teammate who plays too many videogames and…

cardswire.usatoday.com

"Everything that we've asked of him, he's went above and beyond," Gannon said. "If you watch the tape, you know why I'm convicted. But it's not only the tape at that position. The other things that he brings to the table as a person, as a teammate, as a competitor, I absolutely love. Saddle me up; let's go. Just from a standpoint of respect and love and care and developing that relationship with him we kinda like hit it off. So feel really good about where he’s at and where he wants to go."

Kyler Murray's work, leadership praised by Jonathan Gannon, Budda Baker

To say that Kyler Murray has been a lightning rod since being selected No. 1 overall by the Arizona Cardinals in the 2019 draft would be an understatement, judging by the persistent outside noise that was often over the top but also at times justified. It…

cardswire.usatoday.com

"You couldn't ask for a better — what he's doing on the field, off the field, what he's doing for his game to improve his game, what he's doing for the offense leadershipwise, what he's doing for the team leadershiopwise," he said. "He's a sounding board for me. We have good candid conversations about what needs to get done and how do we get that done and I put a lot of expectation on him and he's been fulfilling all of it."

Kyler Murray's work, leadership praised by Jonathan Gannon, Budda Baker

To say that Kyler Murray has been a lightning rod since being selected No. 1 overall by the Arizona Cardinals in the 2019 draft would be an understatement, judging by the persistent outside noise that was often over the top but also at times justified. It…

cardswire.usatoday.com

You do realize this started with you calling him intellectually LAZY.

My responses have been that intellectually lazy isnt the issue (at least according to the new regime)

He did himself no favors how he conducted himself early on his career. So if that lingers for you then ok.

None of this is valid, @SoonerLou. If you don't do your own research, you can't rely on the wholly fallible AI.

 

[DVontel]

why do you guys keep acting like Brees isn’t about 3-4 inches taller than Kyler

 

[602 Native]

why do you guys keep acting like Brees isn’t about 3-4 inches taller than Kyler

I’ve stood next to Brees multiple times in Del Mar.

He’s not even 6ft tall.

 

[netsnjkidd]

I’ve stood next to Brees multiple times in Del Mar.

He’s not even 6ft tall.

People really believe kyler is 5'5. He got pictures standing next to Jalen hurts and baker, they basically the same height.

 

[Stout]

People really believe kyler is 5'5. He got pictures standing next to Jalen hurts and baker, they basically the same height.

It's just that Kyler plays smaller.

 

[DVontel]

People really believe kyler is 5'5. He got pictures standing next to Jalen hurts and baker, they basically the same height.

Right…

 

[DVontel]

Saying Hurts & especially Baker are basically the same height as Kyler the funniest thing I’ve seen in a minute. Baker damn near has an 4 inch difference in that pic lmao.