Kyler Murray Debacle Thread

[oaken1]

speaking of Stafford and FWIW

-- saw a tweet (xweet?) from a NFLwriter who said "the vibes arent good about Staffords back" im trying to find it again

Xweet....is that pronounced "Sweet" or "Zweet" ?

 

[oaken1]

My question wasn’t a rip on Murray. Even though the Murray lovers probably took it that way.

I was just wondering if it had happened previously. Stafford might be the only one. But he did have a pro bowl year and 11-5 record in his 5th or 6th year which gave him some rope.

Murray needs to produce a playoff year for sure or he’ll most likely have a very precarious offseason.

Kyler had an 11-5 and a pro bowl year too.
How he handled them shortens the rope given.
But in all fairness it wouldn't take as much rope for kyler as it would for Stafford

 

[oaken1]

Its kind of hard to use that when Baker is flourishing under Todd Bowles of all people. Although to Bowles credit he gets/got guys that worked directly with McVay.

Baker has been nothing but a baller his entire time in the league.
Everyone knows Cleveland tried to pin the blame on him when the issues are organizational...
They followed up the blunder with desuan Watson...it kept the press from digging in to the Mayfield issue...unfortunately it worked a lot better as a distraction than they intended.
Mayfield has something kyler may never have. He has a 10 pound chip of "F-U" on his shoulder...it causes him to attempt spectacular plays....often.... but plays like that just are not often successful.
But I would take it in a minute. A QB with a go for it mentality with the balls to shoot for greatness and the talent to occasionally succeed...hell yeah.
That really was a great draft class...sucks we got keim'd

 

[DaHilg]

My question wasn’t a rip on Murray. Even though the Murray lovers probably took it that way.

I was just wondering if it had happened previously. Stafford might be the only one. But he did have a pro bowl year and 11-5 record in his 5th or 6th year which gave him some rope.

Murray needs to produce a playoff year for sure or he’ll most likely have a very precarious offseason.

Completely agree - as a Kyler Murray “Potential Fan”. Meaning I am absolutely tantalized by this guys potential and his up and downs.

Kyler sucks at the things the coaches have schemed for him. I have no idea at this point if he’s a great mismanaged talent or sucks!?!! This organization has failed him on coaching and roster - don’t think I could mention 1 QB that has overcame that… certainly 3 QBs that are top 5 QBs in their prime failed w those same situations - Staffordc Palmer and Brees. I’m sure we could add more. So a top 15 QBs based on his own performance surely would succeed right?

I just want to see a proper OLine, 2 WRs we would all deem as WR2+ and a OC that doesn’t call plays from 1992. Most of the league is doing it - 20 teams+ so why can’t we try it?

 

[unseenaz]

Xweet....is that pronounced "Sweet" or "Zweet" ?

Similar to pronouns - it's all fluid.

 

[oaken1]

Similar to pronouns - it's all fluid.

I see. Everyone gets to pick their own.
Got it

 

[Stout]

Its kind of hard to use that when Baker is flourishing under Todd Bowles of all people. Although to Bowles credit he gets/got guys that worked directly with McVay.

Also, Baker is a much better QB than Kyler.

 

[football karma]

Its kind of hard to use that when Baker is flourishing under Todd Bowles of all people. Although to Bowles credit he gets/got guys that worked directly with McVay.

Baker is another QB in the tier where they are dependent on good personnel around them

no coincidence that Bakers best years -- in Cleveland or Tampa -- he had really good offensive personnel around him

Mike Evans in particular will do that for you

 

[Stout]

Baker is another QB in the tier where they are dependent on good personnel around them

no coincidence that Bakers best years -- in Cleveland or Tampa -- he had really good offensive personnel around him

Mike Evans in particular will do that for you

No doubt that having superior weapons helps. It only goes so far. 4500 yards and 41 TDs show that Baker is for real, in a way Kyler has never even sniffed in his career. Lack of weapons doesn't come close to explaining the disparity.

 

[DaHilg]

No doubt that having superior weapons helps. It only goes so far. 4500 yards and 41 TDs show that Baker is for real, in a way Kyler has never even sniffed in his career. Lack of weapons doesn't come close to explaining the disparity.

Kyler’s never had a 1-2 punch as good or even as close as good as Evans/Goodwin. I would take their running back stable all day over JC as well as their OLine everyday and twice on Sunday. They did a great job constructing that offense, that if Baker hadn’t worked they would have been in great position to plug and play the next QB.

 

[Ronin]

Arizona Cardinals quarterback Kyler Murray: 'This is the most complete team I've been on' | 'The Insiders'

 

[Shane]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[Cheesebeef]

Kyler’s never had a 1-2 punch as good or even as close as good as Evans/Goodwin.

That incredible 1-2 punch only played 7 of 17 games together last year and at one point, Baker played 3 games without BOTH of them. I’m shocked you just totally ignored those facts while making your case why Bakers MVP-type numbers were really something a lot of plug and play QBs could achieve.

Not.

 

[TJ]

Kyler’s never had a 1-2 punch as good or even as close as good as Evans/Goodwin. I would take their running back stable all day over JC as well as their OLine everyday and twice on Sunday. They did a great job constructing that offense, that if Baker hadn’t worked they would have been in great position to plug and play the next QB.

My QB needs to maximize the receiving talent on the team. Marv, Trey et al are plenty for him to be successful

 

[daves]

Kyler had an 11-5 and a pro bowl year too.

9-5. But two Pro Bowls.

 

[SoonerLou]

Baker has been nothing but a baller his entire time in the league.
Everyone knows Cleveland tried to pin the blame on him when the issues are organizational...
They followed up the blunder with desuan Watson...it kept the press from digging in to the Mayfield issue...unfortunately it worked a lot better as a distraction than they intended.
Mayfield has something kyler may never have. He has a 10 pound chip of "F-U" on his shoulder...it causes him to attempt spectacular plays....often.... but plays like that just are not often successful.
But I would take it in a minute. A QB with a go for it mentality with the balls to shoot for greatness and the talent to occasionally succeed...hell yeah.
That really was a great draft class...sucks we got keim'd

He was pretty bad in Carolina.
He joined McVay with the Rams and had Rams coaches ever since. He's really blossomed from there.
Baker was very controlled/care taker in Cleveland's offense. Ironically, like Kyler on the Cardinals now.

Maybe Kyler needs to bottom out to get that chip on his shoulder.

 

[SoonerLou]

Kyler’s never had a 1-2 punch as good or even as close as good as Evans/Goodwin. I would take their running back stable all day over JC as well as their OLine everyday and twice on Sunday. They did a great job constructing that offense, that if Baker hadn’t worked they would have been in great position to plug and play the next QB.

Thing is Baker proved it on the field to give the Bucs the belief to build around him. They've drafted interior lineman high and their new WR is lighting up camp.

He had to compete to win that job and he's taken and ran with it.

It does help that they just came off the Brady era and now have expectations in Tampa. Monti is recreating those Titans teams that were successful. We'll see if that works out or not.

Arizona Cardinals quarterback Kyler Murray: 'This is the most complete team I've been on' | 'The Insiders'

Kyler says the team is really good every year. Need to see it to believe it.

 

[Chopper0080]

Thing is Baker proved it on the field to give the Bucs the belief to build around him. They've drafted interior lineman high and their new WR is lighting up camp.

He had to compete to win that job and he's taken and ran with it.

It does help that they just came off the Brady era and now have expectations in Tampa. Monti is recreating those Titans teams that were successful. We'll see if that works out or not.


Kyler says the team is really good every year. Need to see it to believe it.

I think Baker has evolved his game due to the ebbs and flows of his professional career. He is a very different QB than when in entered the league, in a better way. Kyler is mostly the same except is now less aggressive.

 

[Stout]

I think Baker has evolved his game due to the ebbs and flows of his professional career. He is a very different QB than when in entered the league, in a better way. Kyler is mostly the same except is now less aggressive.

This is a cogent summation of the two players. I'm guessing Baker's dad hasn't been his lifetime QB coach. I know I harp on that a lot, but it smacks so much of complacency and, frankly, arrogance. Both have been humbled in their careers, sharply. Unfortunately for Kyler, he was rewarded for it and has shown no impetus to change. Baker had to rebuild from nothing and resurrect his career, and has transformed because of it.

I laughed at the idea of us going after Baker to replace Kyler previously. Just shows I don't always know best.

 

[BirdGangThing]

This is a cogent summation of the two players. I'm guessing Baker's dad hasn't been his lifetime QB coach. I know I harp on that a lot, but it smacks so much of complacency and, frankly, arrogance. Both have been humbled in their careers, sharply. Unfortunately for Kyler, he was rewarded for it and has shown no impetus to change. Baker had to rebuild from nothing and resurrect his career, and has transformed because of it.

I laughed at the idea of us going after Baker to replace Kyler previously. Just shows I don't always know best.

that's just it - we (including the pros) don't know when or if the light will ever come on - and different things can flip the switch - baker darnold geno all had different situations but all 3 are better because they learned from it - then you get rookies coming in looking like they've been in the league their whole life

 

[Ronin]

Cardinals' Kyler Murray claps back at 'egregious' narrative

Plenty of narratives surround Kyler Murray entering his seventh NFL season. Questioning his deep-ball accuracy shouldn't be one of them, he said.

arizonasports.com

 

[kerouac9]

The topic of the Athletic Football Show today was, "Which QBs are at a crossroads in 2025?". Murray was #1 on their list. Listen from the beginning or skip directly to their segment on Murray.

Finally had a chance to listen to this. Apparently the coaching staff is still extremely confident in Murray’s ability to be a winning quarterback.

The hosts agreed that Kyler needs to get better at working the middle in the 8-12 yard area. Thought Zay Jones’ ability to play outside could unlock some more opportunities for MHJ from the slot and moving around.

They mentioned that Charmin is effective running deep digs and outs, but Kyler doesn’t like those routes.

Finally, the offense was 5th in success rate last season (a metric I’ve loved for a long time), but 17th in red zone TD percentage. Usually, this is the kind of thing that coaching staffs focus on the following season and naturally improved.

Would love to see that.

 

[Chopper0080]

Finally had a chance to listen to this. Apparently the coaching staff is still extremely confident in Murray’s ability to be a winning quarterback.

The hosts agreed that Kyler needs to get better at working the middle in the 8-12 yard area. Thought Zay Jones’ ability to play outside could unlock some more opportunities for MHJ from the slot and moving around.

They mentioned that Charmin is effective running deep digs and outs, but Kyler doesn’t like those routes.

Finally, the offense was 5th in success rate last season (a metric I’ve loved for a long time), but 17th in red zone TD percentage. Usually, this is the kind of thing that coaching staffs focus on the following season and naturally improved.

Would love to see that.

Timing and rhythm routes so that tracks.

EDIT: More detail. Deep outs and digs require a QB to hang in the pocket longer to let the route develop and then you have to release the ball with timing and placement to hit the WR out of the break. Last season there were reports identifying Kyler moving off routes too quickly because he gets antsy in the pocket.

 

[kerouac9]

Timing and rhythm routes so that tracks.

EDIT: More detail. Deep outs and digs require a QB to hang in the pocket longer to let the route develop and then you have to release the ball with timing and placement to hit the WR out of the break. Last season there were reports identifying Kyler moving off routes too quickly because he gets antsy in the pocket.

Yeah they said Kyler did a better job in quick game and getting passes out early last year, which I maybe didn’t clock.

Also said Kyler had just 27 designed runs last year. The Cards want to get that back into the offense. Justin Fields had more in six starts!

 

[602 Native]

People riding Baker Mayfield like he wasn't bouncing around the league till he teamed up with a HOF WR and Godwin.

Same people were touting Darnold last season till he imploded in the playoffs and now will be a turd in Seattle.

Still hoping we can get McClaurin from the Skins.