Koetter gets extension

[Renz]

BTW, it seems that (DelaShaun) Dean wishwashed once again, apparently he didn't show up for his visit to ASU...

Dean is more astute than I thought.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

BTW, is seems that Dean wishwashed once again, apparently he didn't show up for his visist to ASU, that he agreed to take, so I'm pretty happy this kid won't be hanging around any ASU football players...No offense to the kid, but apperently he has a lot of talent and physical ability, but he lacks in some other major talents...

Wow, Cactus Ranch sure is on fire with their "inside" information. Holmes wasn't going to UA, Dean is visiting ASU, etc. etc.

And to reference your previous post...
http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=61386&highlight=Leinart+Keller

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showpost.php?p=476433&postcount=39

Sorry Chris, I had to prove a point.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I agree with AZBALLER, U of Lame fans get all excited about every QB that goes to Tuckson. Or at least since I've followed the team. Smith, Jenkins, Kovalcheck, and now Tittyama or whatever the bozos name is.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I agree with AZBALLER, U of Lame fans get all excited about every QB that goes to Tuckson. Or at least since I've followed the team. Smith, Jenkins, Kovalcheck, and now Tittyama or whatever the bozos name is.

Sounds like you've seen the kid play. And being in Germany I imagine you get a lot of Arizona football games on TV to help you make that judgment.

Again, the belief that Tuitama is going to suck because of the losers that preceeded him is a moronic argument. But then again, this argument comes from the fan base that came up with such brilliant nicknames as "U of Lame" and "Stoopid" so I guess it kind of makes sense.

 

[DevilPrideBAS]

I think the nicknames are great! Go Devils.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here.. I AM a Sun Devil Fan first and foremost, but I can also respect the job Mike Stoops has done in Tucson. He took over a program that was a pure mess, riddled in the ashes of the Mackovic fiasco. He's managed to put together two great recruiting classes in a row, and with Tuitama at the helm, I'm going to go out on record and say the Cats will be a Bowl team next season, and in the Top 25 the following. I hope I'm wrong -- sorry Cat fans-- however on a projection level, it's easy to see they're on the rise.

 

[PAQ77]

BTW, is seems that Dean wishwashed once again, apparently he didn't show up for his visist to ASU, that he agreed to take, so I'm pretty happy this kid won't be hanging around any ASU football players...No offense to the kid, but apperently he has a lot of talent and physical ability, but he lacks in some other major talents...

Of course he didn't... Everyone knew he wouldn't. When he committed to Arizona he flat out said he wasn't going to go to ASU so why it's a shock, I don't know. The talented players out there know that the place to be now is in Tucson. It was a pipe dream to think he might even consider the trip to ASU no matter what it said in azcentral.

 

[PAQ77]

Dean is more astute than I thought.

Yup, the kid is a smart man...

 

[PAQ77]

I agree with AZBALLER, U of Lame fans get all excited about every QB that goes to Tuckson. Or at least since I've followed the team. Smith, Jenkins, Kovalcheck, and now Tittyama or whatever the bozos name is.

Yeah, nobody got all worked up about any of those QB's. At least I didn't. The only one that created a buzz was Jenkins during that great 98 season. All the others, yeah, I didn't have too much confidence in. I'll admit, ASU always seems to find a good QB every now and then. Doesn't seem to help their cause though... And honestly, I think any QB in ASU's offensive scheme would do well. No doubt, they have a balls out offense. But it's the system that elevates the QB.

 

[PAQ77]

I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here.. I AM a Sun Devil Fan first and foremost, but I can also respect the job Mike Stoops has done in Tucson. He took over a program that was a pure mess, riddled in the ashes of the Mackovic fiasco. He's managed to put together two great recruiting classes in a row, and with Tuitama at the helm, I'm going to go out on record and say the Cats will be a Bowl team next season, and in the Top 25 the following. I hope I'm wrong -- sorry Cat fans-- however on a projection level, it's easy to see they're on the rise.

Finally... An ASU fan with some sense. I've never been into ASU bashing. I live in the Phx area but I've been a Cat's fan from birth. Only when I hear idiots talking trash cause they've got nothing else to do, that's when I put my two cents in. Here's my opinion... ASU has a tremendous offense. But they have a pansy defense. Koetter is a good OFFENSIVE coach. Defensively, he needs help. Plain and simple folks... Now Arizona, they are definitely on the rise and you all have GOT to admit that. Stoops has totally turned the program around and you can see that in the recruiting itself. As far as on the field, the record doesn't indicate it but they are much improved. I don't know how many of their losses this past season they should have won. They gave away the Utah, Purdue and Oregon games for sure... They were in position to win the Stanford game as well. I don't have the schedule in front of me but I think most of their losses were by 7 points or less. It's progress, folks, and you all have to admit it. Like it or not...

 

[Krangodnzr]

Sounds like you've seen the kid play. And being in Germany I imagine you get a lot of Arizona football games on TV to help you make that judgment.

Again, the belief that Tuitama is going to suck because of the losers that preceeded him is a moronic argument. But then again, this argument comes from the fan base that came up with such brilliant nicknames as "U of Lame" and "Stoopid" so I guess it kind of makes sense.

Oh I'm not judging him as a player...I haven't seen him play. You got me on that one. What I'm agreeing with Baller about, is that U of A fans ALWAYS hype up who ever is playing QB.

U of A has had some good recruiting classes, but the losing culture has to change. The Wildcats are like the Cards in that regard. Stoops might have come from a winner, but that doesn't mean he can build a winner with out Bob around. That remains to be seen.

I'm not a fan of Koetter, though, and I have to admit I'd probably pick Stoops if I were picking a head coach.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Yeah, nobody got all worked up about any of those QB's. At least I didn't. The only one that created a buzz was Jenkins during that great 98 season. All the others, yeah, I didn't have too much confidence in. I'll admit, ASU always seems to find a good QB every now and then. Doesn't seem to help their cause though... And honestly, I think any QB in ASU's offensive scheme would do well. No doubt, they have a balls out offense. But it's the system that elevates the QB.

Plummer, Kealy, Walter, (at times) Krohn, Keller, Carpenter....

At times?

Seriously though, ASU has had quite a few good college QBs. U of A might have one now, and Ortege had his moments, but since I've been watching QB play has been a weak spot for the Wildcats.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Oh I'm not judging him as a player...I haven't seen him play. You got me on that one. What I'm agreeing with Baller about, is that U of A fans ALWAYS hype up who ever is playing QB.

U of A has had some good recruiting classes, but the losing culture has to change. The Wildcats are like the Cards in that regard. Stoops might have come from a winner, but that doesn't mean he can build a winner with out Bob around. That remains to be seen.

I'm not a fan of Koetter, though, and I have to admit I'd probably pick Stoops if I were picking a head coach.

This is ridiculous. Here is the reality of the situation. Arizona and Arizona State are two middling footballs programs where ASU has had more peaks in the valley. Currently they have two coaches who have yet to prove in win and losses that they are great coaches but give you enough good signs to think it is only a matter of time. Talent has been higher at ASU recently but Koetter has had more time as well as the luxury of not taking over for a completly inept regime. Stoops has shown great recruiting as well as the ability to win a really big game (ASU '04, UCLA '05)....Plus he has returned talent to a barren Mackovic recruited team. Higher than should be expected talent. Koetter has recruited pretty well but he seems more to be living off ASU's notoriety and perks than actually selling the program.

This next year will be pivotal for both teams. ASU loses Hagan and Dale Robinson, the best players on both side of the ball. But a (hopefully) senior Sam Keller will carry out a more healthy and consistent season like the flashes he showed last year. Then, and only if then will ASU be expected to seriously compete for a 2006 Pac-10 title.

Arizona is in is different mode though. While ASU will be banking on experience, UA will banking on sheer young talent. Freshman and Sophmores Tuitama, Mike Thomas, Jonathan Turner, Derke Robinson, Gabe Long, Nate Ness will be expected to contribute with good expereince in Cason and Spencer on defense. Depending on the growth of these player UA can win any where from 6 - 8 games next year. That is unless we are severly overrating Stoop's and his coordiantors coaching ability.

IMO this is the season where UA football becomes a top 25 for the majority of the season. UA has less experience but more talent. This is the benefit of playing a weaker schedule as well.

ASU has a chance to be very good but lately its harder to think that Koetter can out coach the opposition 10 times out of 12 chances. In my mind ASU fans should be saddened if they are not one of the top two teams in the conference next year as thier talent dictates so. UA fans should be happy with a bowl appearence and continued development of our QB. But then maybe we are severly underrating the talent on the team and more sucess is possible.

UA fans are rightfully excited. ASU might have a right to be skeptical. Put me in the excited category. I have seen enough good coaching by Stoops and talent acqusition to think things will be much improved next year. With no bias i would say i wouldn't consider trading your program for ours at its current state for anything. Remember past history doesnt always dictate whats going to happen in the present. After all there was a 1984 Arizona basketball team.....

 

[Krangodnzr]

This is ridiculous.

I'm not tracking on how what I said was ridiculous. Stoops hasn't proven jack at Arizona. Until he proves it on the field, U of A will remain a losing football program on the level of a Vanderbilt. Plain and simple. Yeah the recruits look great on paper, but not everyone one of them will work out. To win 6-8 games every one of the aforementioned recruits will have to contribute at the same time. That's unlikely, especially considering injuries, academics, the inevitable legal problems, etc.

Look, I believe that the recruiting classes are there, but the results have to be judged on the field. Arizona didn't take a huge leap in wins this year, and I'll remain skeptical until I see that.

ASU on the other hand should be ready for a step back, but I won't count them out. They've got enough returning talent on both sides of the ball to surprise...

 

[AZBALLER]

Plummer, Kealy, Walter, (at times) Krohn, Keller, Carpenter....

At times?

Seriously though, ASU has had quite a few good college QBs. U of A might have one now, and Ortege had his moments, but since I've been watching QB play has been a weak spot for the Wildcats.

Ua is this only Pac school to never have a qb in the NFL(can you name the other infamous stat ua holds?), and no a kick returner in the NFL doesn't count as having an actuall qb in the NFL...I'll believe ua has a qb capable of making the NFL the first day a wildcat is listed on an opening day roster as a qb in the NFL...

 

[Krangodnzr]

Ua is this only Pac school to never have a qb in the NFL(can you name the other infamous stat ua holds?), and no a kick returner in the NFL doesn't count as having an actuall qb in the NFL...I'll believe ua has a qb capable of making the NFL the first day a wildcat is listed on an opening day roster as a qb in the NFL...

No Rose Bowl appearances and no OUTRIGHT (I know I have to word it that way) PAC 10 Championship...

Surprising stat though. That would explain U of A's mediocrity as a football program.

 

[AZBALLER]

No Rose Bowl appearances and no OUTRIGHT (I know I have to word it that way) PAC 10 Championship...

Surprising stat though. That would explain U of A's mediocrity as a football program.

What would scare me, if I were a UA fan, is Stoop's comments, that he was soo surprised at how good the Pac was at passing the ball after his first season coaching at UA...Is the rest of the nation that ignorant, that the Pac runs PRO STYLE passing offenses? No wonder why USC beat Oklahoma like they were a junior college team...

 

[Arizona's Finest]

What would scare me, if I were a UA fan, is Stoop's comments, that he was soo surprised at how good the Pac was at passing the ball after his first season coaching at UA...Is the rest of the nation that ignorant, that the Pac runs PRO STYLE passing offenses? No wonder why USC beat Oklahoma like they were a junior college team...

Are you two having a conversation with each other convincing yourselves UA's football history is not good. I dont think anyone is disagreeing with you. Tomey was just above mediocre and inconsistent (Much like Bruce Snyder) and then a terrible Mackovic era set the program back 5 years. So basically you guys are crowing about your Kush teams and his success twenty years ago. Great. Takeout Mackovics tenure and we have had a comprable recent history the last couple decades.

Our past history is not the best and I cant say anything good about our QB's in the past. Much like ASU in basketball. But lets say you guys hired Mark Few and he started bringing in big time recruits and while W-L's were not always there, you could see progression in the program just two years after a disastorous Rob Evans regime (sound familiar?). Now what if in his second year, Few pulled in a stud recruit and the freshman quickly became the best player on the team. Wouldn't you be excited for his and the teams second year? And what about the third year?

Thats what I am saying. We are excited. And by all national and knowledgeble football fans, legitmatly so. So you can keep running your mouth about never having been to the rose bowl and our QB history, but in reality thats what it is: History. And thats all you guys seem to be living off of recently.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Football


Opinion by Greg Hansen : ASU's blunder is Stoops' gain


Opinion by Greg Hansen

Tucson, Arizona | Published: 12.18.2005

In the fifth year of his contract, fully deploying his hand-picked recruits for the first time, Arizona State's Dirk Koetter coached the Sun Devils to a 6-5 record.
As a working definition of coaching mediocrity — Koetter is 32-28 at ASU, earning $758,000 a year — he is to be awarded with more money (to perhaps $1 million annually) and more years on his contract.
You've got to wonder what rookie ASU athletic director Lisa Love and hand's-on school president Michael Crow were thinking.
They fell for the oldest ploy in the coaching manual, believing the overblown baloney that a coach who is about to enter the final years of his contract cannot effectively recruit. (High school kids, some of whom select a college based on the brand of shoes the school endorses, do not often think in long-range terms.)
Rather than implore their football staff to recruit with more diligence or, in effect, lose their jobs, the budget-crunched Sun Devils have instead tied themselves financially to a coach they no longer can afford to replace.
And the kicker is, Koetter's existing contract ran through 2007. More time? How about more wins first?
Upon hearing the happy news — more money, more time — Koetter told reporters, "I'll have our secretary fax this (news) to every Pac-10 team, so they can go back to telling our recruits it's too hot here."
On the recruiting trail, every college coach finds time to disclose some unpleasant tidbits about his competitors. It's too hot in Tempe. It's too cold at Wazzu. It's too wet at Oregon. You won't be able to afford a cheeseburger in the Bay Area. USC will not be able to keep Pete Carroll from returning to the NFL.
That's how it works. The savvy athletic directors are not fazed.
Why ASU has chosen to keep Koetter is its business. Why it will give him more money is everybody's business.
If Koetter becomes a $1 million coach, who isn't worth as much? Has the market gone that crazy?
On Friday, Colorado hired Boise State's Dan Hawkins to an excessive and somewhat troublesome contract that, much like Koetter's new deal, will serve to redefine the pay scale at similar midmarket football schools. Arizona, for example.
CU not only gave Hawkins $900,000 annually, but agreed to pay the $700,000 he owes Boise State for bolting his contract there. Before the deal could be completed, in good faith, Colorado was forced to produce a booster willing to pay $1.5 million toward construction of an indoor practice facility.
Additionally, Colorado will give Hawkins $100,000 for an appearance in any bowl game, $50,000 if his players behave like civilized humans, another $50,000 if they regularly attend class, and $100,000 if he performs a community outreach program.
All of that is in addition to $15,000 for moving expenses, $7,200 a year for an automobile, $4,800 a year for golf dues and $3,500 a year to purchase Nike merchandise.
The cost to play football, at all levels, continues to soar.
It's not much of a mystery that Koetter's contract paranoia was exacerbated by Mike Stoops' extraordinary recruiting success. How else could Koetter save face than to say he was recruiting with a contractual handicap.
Right. Stoops is coming off 3-8 seasons at a school (it's hot here, too) that has never gone to the Rose Bowl.
Ironically, it is Stoops who next year likely will owe Koetter a bit of gratitude.
If the progress in Arizona's program continues, both in its ongoing recruiting success and with the development of quarterback Willie Tuitama, the Wildcats appear in position to break .500 and play in their first bowl game since 1998.
At $650,000 per year in a league with Koetter making $1 million, Stoops clearly would be underpaid. Deserved or not, Koetter got himself a nice raise, and in doing so, gave Stoops the basis for some unusually strong contract leverage next year. What goes around comes around.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

More from Hansen. My sentiments exactly

Arizona's incomparable football recruiting week — commitments from six top-drawer prospects — can all be traced to Mike Stoops' proactive decision to play quarterback Willie Tuitama in Game 6 of a lost season.
Suddenly, the Wildcats have been found. Tuitama's performance and his presence (and his eagerness to help in recruiting) has enabled even the elite-tier recruits to see where the UA football program appears to be headed.
Arizona is coming off its sixth consecutive losing season, yet it is recruiting at a pace to match the game's ranking heavyweights. Stoops' energy is part of it, but Tuitama's emergence is the reason Arizona has been able to close so many deals.

 

[Renz]

ASU has the most gutless athletic department in the nation. If any D-1 coach in America deserved to be fired it was Rob Evans, yet he somehow earned a contract extension.

Like the article stated, Koetter has been the definition of mediocre in his 5 seasons, yet he qualifies for an extension and a raise. What's Dirk's excuse for barely being above .500 while at ASU? That he wasn't able to tell recruits he had a lifetime contract?

 

[AZBALLER]

Our past history is not the best and I cant say anything good about our QB's in the past. Much like ASU in basketball. But lets say you guys hired Mark Few and he started bringing in big time recruits and while W-L's were not always there, you could see progression in the program just two years after a disastorous Rob Evans regime (sound familiar?). Now what if in his second year, Few pulled in a stud recruit and the freshman quickly became the best player on the team. Wouldn't you be excited for his and the teams second year? And what about the third year?

legitThats what I am saying. We are excited. And by all national and knowledgeble football fans, matly so. So you can keep running your mouth about never having been to the rose bowl and our QB history, but in reality thats what it is: History. And thats all you guys seem to be living off of recently.

That's what I'm saying!!! Every wildcat response either says ASU can't talk about ua's overrated qb's; or that ASU didn't beat Macovick in recruits, or that ua's basketball team is more important than ASU's football team...I thought we were talking about College football?

Are we talking about football?
Would you rather talk about basketball? If so, then get off this thread...and start one about college basketball...I'm sure all College basketball fans will agree with you.

 

[AZBALLER]

ASU has the most gutless athletic department in the nation. If any D-1 coach in America deserved to be fired it was Rob Evans, yet he somehow earned a contract extension.

Like the article stated, Koetter has been the definition of mediocre in his 5 seasons, yet he qualifies for an extension and a raise. What's Dirk's excuse for barely being above .500 while at ASU? That he wasn't able to tell recruits he had a lifetime contract?

If that's your stance, then au is worse!!!!!!!!!

The biggest bread winner in College athletics is...College football.

By your statements, older/ less experienced brother Stoops should have been fired after his 1st 3-8 season, yet he got another chance and went 3-8 again...I'm starting to see a trend...

Are you serious? UA could bring a lot of $$$ into their athletic department, if they tried to upgrade the big $$ winner, but they seem to be happy as a basketball school...

 

[Renz]

If that's your stance, then au is worse!!!!!!!!!

The biggest bread winner in College athletics is...College football.

By your statements, older/ less experienced brother Stoops should have been fired after his 1st 3-8 season, yet he got another chance and went 3-8 again...I'm starting to see a trend...

Are you serious? UA could bring a lot of $$$ into their athletic department, if they tried to upgrade the big $$ winner, but they seem to be happy as a basketball school...

You conveniently fail to address my point. I never said Koetter should have been fired after one or two years, but what exactly has Koetter done to deserve an extension and a raise this year? He has been mediocre after 5 years, so apparently ASU is satisfied with mediocrity. Tell me I'm wrong.

UA hired Stoops and fired Mackovic because they are trying to get better. No one could have re-built a program in two years after the mess Mackovic left behind. If Stoops isn't getting it done after five years then he should be sent packing, not rewarded with more $.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

That's what I'm saying!!! Every wildcat response either says ASU can't talk about ua's overrated qb's; or that ASU didn't beat Macovick in recruits, or that ua's basketball team is more important than ASU's football team...I thought we were talking about College football?

Are we talking about football?
Would you rather talk about basketball? If so, then get off this thread...and start one about college basketball...I'm sure all College basketball fans will agree with you.

Lord knows you would'nt be in the college basketball thread out of fear of being laughed out....

Once again my analogies are lost on ignorant souls....

I was giving you Tempe boys an analogous situation between Arizona fans being excited about the upcoming season (due to a confluence of events) and ASU fans and if hell froze over and you guys actually hired a legitimate basketball coach....Still talking about football just making an analogy. Heres my non typical Wildcat response:

We have the QB now and your silence will be golden come August. Much like it is November through March currently..