Knicks @ Suns Friday game thread 3-4-2022

cheesebeef

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Are we going to have read this on every game thread? I mean, he's gone. And he's not an Ayton replacement, no matter how much you overrate his numbers on a bottom feeder in Indy.

Good kid, hope he's successful and there is a smidge of regret for not picking up his option, but he's not a difference maker.
I think it’s a specious argument to blow off his numbers because he’s on a bottom feeder since he put up the same numbers on a title contending team when he was given minutes here too.

Kid’s only in his second year and it’s apparent he can bang for boards against anyone already at this young stage of his career. He might not be a difference maker yet, but he’s got a world of potential considering he’s already got one skill like that on lock and is so young, IMO.
 

1tinsoldier

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How can Julius Randle be consistently allowed to lower his shoulder into the defender.

It should be a foul every time it happens. This is what happens when the referees ignore it.
exactly. the NBA should eject those refs for one game for letting Randle get away that crap until it finally forced a mild-tempered guy like Cam to react.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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It's not just weak opponents where he disappears, it's against any team that decides to punish us for his switching on the perimeter. It looks like lack of effort, and sometimes it is, but all too often it's just our clueless big guy outside trying to figure out what to do.
The weird thing is that when we pick and roll opponents have gotten better at making the pass to the roller (Ayton) more difficult. We’ve have fewer allez-oops this year to Ayton. But when the run it at us for some reason there seems to be passes to the rollers. I don’t know if it’s positioning by Ayton or the trail defender not sliding down quickly enough, but we seem not defend the pick and roll ideally (good thing most of the league doesn’t run it as frequently as we do, not have Chris Paul to run it).
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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It turns out the Suns needed a center afterall and they traded him away for a bag of chips.
Naw, I think stix will be an alright player but I don’t think he will be Ayton at the heights of both careers. Selling low on stix definitely hurts, but Ayton is still the greater upside.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Props to Payne. He has his flaws and always has mistakes BUT he is our third best guard behind Book and cp3. Glad to have him back.
No doubt. Even with his gaffs and poor shooting we don’t win last night without him.
 
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Mainstreet

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exactly. the NBA should eject those refs for one game for letting Randle get away that crap until it finally forced a mild-tempered guy like Cam to react.

Randle hasn't earned the right to be judged by separate rules not that there is ever an excuse to lower the shoulder into a defender without a foul being called.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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How can Julius Randle be consistently allowed to lower his shoulder into the defender.

It should be a foul every time it happens. This is what happens when the referees ignore it.

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Agreed. Particularly when he’s picked up his dribble and both players are stationary. By definition lowering his shoulder to gain separation is a foul. It was absurd that they let it go. The first one was the most egregious. I’m sure they thought cam flopped. The escalation that occurred was because they allowed that BS.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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How can Julius Randle be consistently allowed to lower his shoulder into the defender.

It should be a foul every time it happens. This is what happens when the referees ignore it.

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I do wonder what cam said to make randle erupt.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Also, last night should put to rest the idea of Ayton playing power forward. When switched onto randle Ayton got his lunch money taken. It was embarrassing what randle was doing to Ayton.
 
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Mainstreet

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Naw, I think stix will be an alright player but I don’t think he will be Ayton at the heights of both careers. Selling low on stix definitely hurts, but Ayton is still the greater upside.

The whole thing about the Suns not picking up the option on Stix is going to linger for awhile although the argument has never been is Stix more than Ayton.
 

cheesebeef

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Man... last night was just great. And I think I was wrong when I said we’d be a 40ish win team without CP3. Payne, while not great, is a role playing solid PG and the rest of the guys really have taken a step forward, if not by leaps and bounds.

I know Portland and NY stink, but to win both games, in completely different, yet thrilling fashion, without the best backcourt in the NBA, especially coming off a two game slide, shows how far these young guys have come.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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The whole thing about the Suns not picking up the option on Stix is going to linger for awhile although the argument has never been is Stix more than Ayton.
Pretty sure you said “It turns out the Suns needed a center afterall and they traded him away for a bag of chips.” I don’t know how else to interpret that other than you intimating that Ayton isn’t the center we need (“…turns out the Suns needed a center…”) and stix would’ve been that center (“…traded him away…”). :shrug:
 
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Mainstreet

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Pretty sure you said “It turns out the Suns needed a center afterall and they traded him away for a bag of chips.” I don’t know how else to interpret that other than you intimating that Ayton isn’t the center we need (“…turns out the Suns needed a center…”) and stix would’ve been that center (“…traded him away…”). :shrug:

None of the Suns centers got the job done last night. They could have used an active player that rebounds. This is what I meant.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Man... last night was just great. And I think I was wrong when I said we’d be a 40ish win team without CP3. Payne, while not great, is a role playing solid PG and the rest of the guys really have taken a step forward, if not by leaps and bounds.

I know Portland and NY stink, but to win both games, in completely different, yet thrilling fashion, without the best backcourt in the NBA, especially coming off a two game slide, shows how far these young guys have come.
Exactly. Under normal circumstances we would have book too. So yeah, at this juncture this team would be a 50 win team without Paul. Though I think Ayton’s numbers would be worse because (a) Paul gets him EASY buckets; and (b) i think Paul is primary spur in Ayton’s ear that gets him to play hard. As a result I think Ayton wouldn’t be anywhere near considered a max player.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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None of the Suns centers got the job done last night. They could have used an active player that rebounds. This is what I meant.
Last night was more anomaly than anything else. But I get it, you were using hyperbole to make the point that our centers came up relatively empty.
 
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Mainstreet

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I'm not sure which poster said it but perhaps Ayton needs Chris Paul constantly coaching him up to get the best out of him.

This shouldn't be the case with a 4th year player.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I'm not sure which poster said it but perhaps Ayton needs Chris Paul constantly coaching him up to get the best out of him.

This shouldn't be the case with a 4th year player.
I’ve said for two years. It’s obvious on the court. You can literally hear Paul yelling at him and see him waving arms at Ayton to get his arse down court all the time.

And you’re right, those lessons should’ve sunk in by now.
 
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Mainstreet

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Last night was more anomaly than anything else. But I get it, you were using hyperbole to make the point that our centers came up relatively empty.
I’ve said for two years. It’s obvious on the court. You can literally hear Paul yelling at him and see him waving arms at Ayton to get his arse down court all the time.

And you’re right, those lessons should’ve sunk in by now.

Also Jonas Valanciunas, Rudy Gobert and Mitchell Robinson have had their way with Ayton under the basket.
 

Muggz

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I think it’s a specious argument to blow off his numbers because he’s on a bottom feeder since he put up the same numbers on a title contending team when he was given minutes here too.

Kid’s only in his second year and it’s apparent he can bang for boards against anyone already at this young stage of his career. He might not be a difference maker yet, but he’s got a world of potential considering he’s already got one skill like that on lock and is so young, IMO.
Since he left his numbers are better than Aytons.
If we gave him a chance to play the position he had been playing in college his numbers would have been much better.
Stix was a good pick but not as a PF.
He will never be a franchise player but he will be a great role player and may turn out to be one of the best centers under 7 ft in the nba.
 

cheesebeef

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Muggz

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Cam Johnson has more Win Shares than Booker & Ayton, a higher Box Plus/Minus than Booker, Ayton & Bridges and a higher VORP than Bridges and Ayton. Chris Paul is still #1 in all 3 categories.
 

cheesebeef

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Another thing about the last couple wins... earlier in the season, we saw the Warriors win a blowout and steal a win without Steph, Dray and Klay and thought it was a sign of their incredible depth and something we couldn’t pull off if Book and CP3 were out.

I was one of those people ecstatic to be proven wrong! This team is so damn deep it’s disgusting.
 

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