Knicks @ Suns 3-6-19

[Mainstreet]

On Wednesday the Suns face off against the Knicks at Talking Stick Resort Arena. The game will be televised on FSAZ with a 7 p.m. Arizona start time.

The Suns (14-51) are looking for their third win in a row after beating the Bucks 114-105 on Monday.

The Knicks (13-51) have the worst record in the NBA having one less win than the Suns but tied in the loss column. They have lost their last three games with their last loss coming at the Kings on Monday 115-108.

 

[Mainstreet]

TJ Warren is reported out for the Knicks game.

Gina Mizell‏Verified account @ginamizell 2h2 hours ago


Per #Suns, T.J. Warren (ankle soreness) is out again tomorrow vs. New York

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[Hoop Head]

TJ Warren is reported out for the Knicks game.

.

This is really questionable. He's been out for a month now. In that time he could have had surgery of some sort but there still isn't any word on when he'll return. More than that we haven't received word on how he injured it, whether or not he aggravated it further, or he just doesn't want to be here anymore and we're trying to keep him from speaking out because it would kill his trade value.

 

[Chaplin]

This is really questionable. He's been out for a month now. In that time he could have had surgery of some sort but there still isn't any word on when he'll return. More than that we haven't received word on how he injured it, whether or not he aggravated it further, or he just doesn't want to be here anymore and we're trying to keep him from speaking out because it would kill his trade value.

Why aren't reporters asking the question they should be asking? Why does this player have so many mysterious ailments with little to no explanation from team officials? Sore ankle? Really?

 

[Mainstreet]

This is really questionable. He's been out for a month now. In that time he could have had surgery of some sort but there still isn't any word on when he'll return. More than that we haven't received word on how he injured it, whether or not he aggravated it further, or he just doesn't want to be here anymore and we're trying to keep him from speaking out because it would kill his trade value.

If Warren wanted out I suspect he would have been healthy around the trade deadline. So I think he is injured.

What's baffling is we do not hear more about it. If Warren should need surgery, I hope they don't wait until the summer.

 

[Hoop Head]

If Warren wanted out I suspect he would have been healthy around the trade deadline. So I think he is injured.

One thing I'll credit Jones with is not making a bad deal for the sake of making a deal or to appease a player like TJ. Perhaps there wasn't much of a trade market for TJ at the deadline? I know I thought the timing of him being sat was odd since it was like a week before the deadline. At that point it would have made sense to sit a player you are trying to trade. That was also right when those articles about Lonzo becoming a Sun showed up on Arizona Sports. His sitting also coincided with news that Sarver pushed for TJ to be dealt during the summer. So there was a lot of talk involving a Suns trade and TJ at that point. Bringing him back right away would have looked bad for everyone in a way. Sitting him a little longer during a dead season hurts no one really. We may think his injury is more serious but other teams will know what the real issue is and also be able to see his medical reports, which I would imagine don't look bad enough to hurt his trade value much.

 

[Mainstreet]

One thing I'll credit Jones with is not making a bad deal for the sake of making a deal or to appease a player like TJ. Perhaps there wasn't much of a trade market for TJ at the deadline? I know I thought the timing of him being sat was odd since it was like a week before the deadline. At that point it would have made sense to sit a player you are trying to trade. That was also right when those articles about Lonzo becoming a Sun showed up on Arizona Sports. His sitting also coincided with news that Sarver pushed for TJ to be dealt during the summer. So there was a lot of talk involving a Suns trade and TJ at that point. Bringing him back right away would have looked bad for everyone in a way. Sitting him a little longer during a dead season hurts no one really. We may think his injury is more serious but other teams will know what the real issue is and also be able to see his medical reports, which I would imagine don't look bad enough to hurt his trade value much.

Sitting Warren around the trade deadline made some sense however I don't think him being out for a long period helps his cause if he wants to be traded this summer.

I certainly do not want another Bledsoe situation.

 

[mjb21aztd]

go suns beat the Knicks would rather have ja morant in the draft a pg is truly what we need.

I like zion but morant is what the suns need if morant turns out to be a true pg it could big time help Igor offense!

plus be awesome to see suns go on a 3 gm win streak!

 

[BC867]

go suns beat the Knicks would rather have ja morant in the draft a pg is truly what we need.

I like zion but morant is what the suns need if morant turns out to be a true pg it could big time help Igor offense!

plus be awesome to see suns go on a 3 gm win streak!

With a roster unbalanced with very young players, do you really think that a rookie Point Guard would be the best choice to be the "quarterback" of the offense at the start of camp?

I agree with you that a Point Guard is truly what we need. And experienced NBA mid-career Point Guard, who can teach, not learn, what works and what doesn't on the court.

Inexperienced General Managers, inexperienced Head Coaches, inexperienced players. The only thing it has gotten the Suns are allowing the investors to pocket money that should have been re-invested in the team.

The Suns franchise is worth over a billion dollars. All NBA teams are worth over a billion dollars. The Suns value is near the bottom. Because the owners are pocketing what luck has brought them and not improving the team.

Also, it is clear that if we were to luck out and be able to draft Zion, it would be a no-brainer that we do.

So I must disagree with both points in your post.

 

[Hoop Head]

go suns beat the Knicks would rather have ja morant in the draft a pg is truly what we need.

I like zion but morant is what the suns need if morant turns out to be a true pg it could big time help Igor offense!

plus be awesome to see suns go on a 3 gm win streak!

I agree with that we need a PG much more than we need Zion but if the choice is either Zion or Morant then I would pick Zion every time. I believe Morant will be a good player but he doesn't have the ceiling Zion does. You should always take the best player available. I think that is what has held us back in the draft previously, drafting for need rather than the best player on the board. Zion fills our hole at PF also so it's not like selecting him creates a logjam.

If we elect to go in another direction and not take Zion then we need to trade the pick. We can get a better PG without the potential best issue with a proven NBA player. Trading the pick that could select Zion should be like trading an All-Star as well so the return should be quite high. I could see that pick bringing in an All-Star type of player like a Kemba Walker. We might even be able to get a PG like De'Aaron Fox for that pick and another asset, be it a future pick or another player. If we could work a deal with Sacramento for Fox and Bagley for Zion, I would jump on that. The start 5 would easily be the best young core in the NBA with Fox, Booker, Jackson/Bridges/Oubre, Bagley, and Ayton would be a team that could dominate when the Warriors window closes. We might even be talented enough to be the ones to close the Warriors window ourselves.

 

[Sunstroke]

With a roster unbalanced with very young players, do you really think that a rookie Point Guard would be the best choice to be the "quarterback" of the offense at the start of camp?

I agree with you that a Point Guard is truly what we need. And experienced NBA mid-career Point Guard, who can teach, not learn, what works and what doesn't on the court.

Inexperienced General Managers, inexperienced Head Coaches, inexperienced players. The only thing it has gotten the Suns are allowing the investors to pocket money that should have been re-invested in the team.

The Suns franchise is worth over a billion dollars. All NBA teams are worth over a billion dollars. The Suns value is near the bottom. Because the owners are pocketing what luck has brought them and not improving the team.

Also, it is clear that if we were to luck out and be able to draft Zion, it would be a no-brainer that we do.

So I must disagree with both points in your post.

Which mid-career PG would you like to see acquired? I'm guessing you believe Crawford is over the hill, age wise, tho' he's played some very good minutes and has been a nice mentor for the youth this season. I'm in agreement with the need and tho' I kind of agree with you on another young 'rook' being drafted, (can a team be TOO young?) I'm looking at Morant's skill set and potential and I'm all in. (if Zion has already been selected ofc.)

 

[Hoop Head]

With a roster unbalanced with very young players, do you really think that a rookie Point Guard would be the best choice to be the "quarterback" of the offense at the start of camp?

I agree with you that a Point Guard is truly what we need. And experienced NBA mid-career Point Guard, who can teach, not learn, what works and what doesn't on the court.

Inexperienced General Managers, inexperienced Head Coaches, inexperienced players. The only thing it has gotten the Suns are allowing the investors to pocket money that should have been re-invested in the team.

The Suns franchise is worth over a billion dollars. All NBA teams are worth over a billion dollars. The Suns value is near the bottom. Because the owners are pocketing what luck has brought them and not improving the team.

Also, it is clear that if we were to luck out and be able to draft Zion, it would be a no-brainer that we do.

So I must disagree with both points in your post.

Now you are just making things up. The Suns are valued at $1.5 billion dollars according to Forbes this year, which ranks as the 17th most valuable franchise in the league, which is also where they ranked last year. Considering the state of the arena they play in that is quite good. However the teams value went up 17% from 2018 when they were valued at $1.28 billion.

A team's record and performance does not have much value on their on their worth. If that were true then the Knicks wouldn't be the highest valued franchise in the league. I know the Knicks are in a huge media market while sucking but so are the Lakers and I would imagine the Lakers are much more popular and they have the title history to fall back on. Somehow though the Knicks stay in front of the Lakers in valuations.

Here's the 2019 Forbes valuation.

Here is the 2018 Forbes valuation.

Here is a nice chart from Forbes that has the values for easier viewing than the articles themselves.

As much as you wish your claims were true they're not and repeating the same nonsense in every post trying to bash Sarver won't make it true.

 

[Chaplin]

Now you are just making things up. The Suns are valued at $1.5 billion dollars according to Forbes this year, which ranks as the 17th most valuable franchise in the league, which is also where they ranked last year. Considering the state of the arena they play in that is quite good. However the teams value went up 17% from 2018 when they were valued at $1.28 billion.

A team's record and performance does not have much value on their on their worth. If that were true then the Knicks wouldn't be the highest valued franchise in the league. I know the Knicks are in a huge media market while sucking but so are the Lakers and I would imagine the Lakers are much more popular and they have the title history to fall back on. Somehow though the Knicks stay in front of the Lakers in valuations.

Here's the 2019 Forbes valuation.

Here is the 2018 Forbes valuation.

Here is a nice chart from Forbes that has the values for easier viewing than the articles themselves.

As much as you wish your claims were true they're not and repeating the same nonsense in every post trying to bash Sarver won't make it true.

I think you are woefully underrating NYC as a market.

 

[elindholm]

The Suns are 3.5-point favorites! When's the last time that happened?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I agree with that we need a PG much more than we need Zion but if the choice is either Zion or Morant then I would pick Zion every time. I believe Morant will be a good player but he doesn't have the ceiling Zion does. You should always take the best player available. I think that is what has held us back in the draft previously, drafting for need rather than the best player on the board. Zion fills our hole at PF also so it's not like selecting him creates a logjam.

If we elect to go in another direction and not take Zion then we need to trade the pick. We can get a better PG without the potential best issue with a proven NBA player. Trading the pick that could select Zion should be like trading an All-Star as well so the return should be quite high. I could see that pick bringing in an All-Star type of player like a Kemba Walker. We might even be able to get a PG like De'Aaron Fox for that pick and another asset, be it a future pick or another player. If we could work a deal with Sacramento for Fox and Bagley for Zion, I would jump on that. The start 5 would easily be the best young core in the NBA with Fox, Booker, Jackson/Bridges/Oubre, Bagley, and Ayton would be a team that could dominate when the Warriors window closes. We might even be talented enough to be the ones to close the Warriors window ourselves.

I don’t think you could pull fox and Bagley for Zion.

 

[Folster]

If we could work a deal with Sacramento for Fox and Bagley for Zion, I would jump on that. The start 5 would easily be the best young core in the NBA with Fox, Booker, Jackson/Bridges/Oubre, Bagley, and Ayton would be a team that could dominate when the Warriors window closes..

That's a cool idea, but that team would not stay together long. Booker and Oubre get paid starting next year. 2 years later you have Fox and Jackson becoming RFAs. Then you have Ayton, Bagley, and Bridges coming due the following year.

 

[Hoop Head]

I think you are woefully underrating NYC as a market.

Is it really that big of a difference compared to LA? I know the Knicks will always have high value because they're in New York but the Lakers are in a huge market as well and have success, even having won a title within the last 10 years. I get that New York is larger and viewed as a bigger market than LA but the Nets are in that same area and they're down to $2.35 million in value, which is considerably less than both the Knicks and Lakers. I know they're in Brooklyn but that's how far from the Knicks? They play 7.7 miles from one another. That's close to $200 million a mile in value as the difference since the Knicks are valued at $4 billion. The Lakers are worth $3.7 according to forbes. I would think the success of the Lakers would bridge that gap in markets.

 

[Hoop Head]

I don’t think you could pull fox and Bagley for Zion.

That's a cool idea, but that team would not stay together long. Booker and Oubre get paid starting next year. 2 years later you have Fox and Jackson becoming RFAs. Then you have Ayton, Bagley, and Bridges coming due the following year.

I don't see Sacramento doing that with how they're playing this year but if any franchise would make a head scratching type of a deal like that it would be the Kings. Their owner would justify it by saying something ridiculous like how he traded Cousins for pennies on the dollar to the Pelicans because he said Buddy Hield was the next Steph Curry. Hield has looked pretty good lately but it took a few years and that Steph Curry talk probably contributed to his struggles when he arrived in Sacramento. Hield is better than Seth Curry now but he's far from being Steph. He might be like Del Curry at his best.

Fox and a future pick for Zion isn't unreasonable. I know they have frontcourt players already but that's one of the reasons I thought Bagley might be available in a deal for Zion. Then I thought about it a little more and remembered they're the Kings and creating a logjam is a very Kings sort of move I can see their owner forcing on Vlade because he's convinced Zion is Shaq. I know Zion's not Shaq but Hield isn't Curry either. The comparisons make similar sense. Vlade has openly called out their owner a few times for forcing his hand. I'm surprised Vlade is still employed there. They've gotten some heat for not taking Doncic also which could be a reason they would trade Bagley, trading him would remove that mistake in their owners eyes. I think Sarver might be a better owner than him, might be. If the Kings weren't winning this year though it'd be a real debate.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I don't know. I think I just take Zion. We would have plenty of assets to trade for a pg. The only way I don't take him is if I don't believe in him.

BTW. Compare Ja to Trae. I think Ja comes out reasonably well.

He is similar as a distributor. He is significantly better as an athlete. He is a much better defender. He is a similar scorer. Trae is the better shooter, but Ja is acceptable.

I think I am happy taking Ja in this draft. He is a sophomore so might develop more quickly than one and doners.

 

[Hoop Head]

I don't know. I think I just take Zion. We would have plenty of assets to trade for a pg. The only way I don't take him is if I don't believe in him.

BTW. Compare Ja to Trae. I think Ja comes out reasonably well.

He is similar as a distributor. He is significantly better as an athlete. He is a much better defender. He is a similar scorer. Trae is the better shooter, but Ja is acceptable.

I think I am happy taking Ja in this draft. He is a sophomore so might develop more quickly than one and doners.

I'm not against taking Ja but if we go that route it may keep us from signing another PG in free agency. If we decide to pass because of Ja then there will be a lot of pressure on him to come in and perform right away. If we can draft him and sign a vet to a 1 or 2 year deal while Ja learns as his backup then we'll be in good shape.

Unlike some I don't have an issue with starting a rookie at PG next year but he needs to earn that job, unlike Melton and Okobo this year. I believe it would be foolish to draft Ja and then believe we've addressed our PG needs. He may be capable of starting from day 1, I'll leave that up to the coaches to decide but we need to bring in a vet to challenge him for that starting role at the very least. That may even be the best route to go since draft Ja should allow us to look at some of the cheaper options in FA and spend more on our other needs.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I'm not against taking Ja but if we go that route it may keep us from signing another PG in free agency. If we decide to pass because of Ja then there will be a lot of pressure on him to come in and perform right away. If we can draft him and sign a vet to a 1 or 2 year deal while Ja learns as his backup then we'll be in good shape.

Unlike some I don't have an issue with starting a rookie at PG next year but he needs to earn that job, unlike Melton and Okobo this year. I believe it would be foolish to draft Ja and then believe we've addressed our PG needs. He may be capable of starting from day 1, I'll leave that up to the coaches to decide but we need to bring in a vet to challenge him for that starting role at the very least. That may even be the best route to go since draft Ja should allow us to look at some of the cheaper options in FA and spend more on our other needs.

Tyler will still be here. He is not going anywhere next year. I would guess that the starting job would be Tylers until Ja takes it.

 

[Phrazbit]

Tyler will still be here. He is not going anywhere next year. I would guess that the starting job would be Tylers until Ja takes it.

I doubt they feel any commitment to Tyler Johnson whatsoever. If they draft a point guard with the top pick I think they'd have to look really unsteady to not start on day one, if they sign a point guard then that guy will obviously start and if stretching Tyler Johnson's contract will help them land a free agent... I think that is in the cards too.

Basically, I don't think Tyler Johnson changes anything about next season's planning except for that he is earning 20 million dollars and that will likely earn him a roster spot by default.

Hell, I think if they signed a D-League guy tomorrow he showed serious chops on a 10 day deal that player could supplant Johnson as the starter within those 10 days.

 

[Hoop Head]

Tyler will still be here. He is not going anywhere next year. I would guess that the starting job would be Tylers until Ja takes it.

I think he'll be here but I don't think he should be our starting PG next year. If we draft Ja and have them compete for the job I could live with that. However if Ja can't win the starting job during training camp and preseason then I won't have much hope for him. I don't think I'm alone in thinking that way either. If the top PG from the draft, who was also a top 5 pick, can't beat Tyler Johnson to be our starting PG then next season won't be pretty.

If Tyler Johnson is our starting PG on opening day next season I think that will be a good indicator that management/ownership here isn't committed to improving this team enough to compete for a playoff appearance. Maybe they're not capable of building a playoff team but I'd almost they rather not be committed for some reason because then there is hope that their minds get changed. If they're not capable then it will be a long season. I don't think a playoff appearance is a necessity either, we just need to be a team that can be in the race for a playoff berth throughout the season and into late March or early April, while winning twice as many games as this year, at least.

That's part of why this year is disappointing. A lot of people predicted we'd improve and win in the low 30's this season and there was talk of how improving by 10 or more wins would be hard to do. To get to 30+ wins next year we may need to win 15 or more games than this season and that will be even harder to pull off. Keeping the same starting backcourt we have now is not the way to do that. I know Johnson wasn't the starter all year but unless we play 500 basketball in the games he plays in from when he was acquired until the final game I don't have much hope in improving a lot with Backcourt 2019.

 

[HeHasRosen]

I agree with that we need a PG much more than we need Zion but if the choice is either Zion or Morant then I would pick Zion every time. I believe Morant will be a good player but he doesn't have the ceiling Zion does. You should always take the best player available. I think that is what has held us back in the draft previously, drafting for need rather than the best player on the board. Zion fills our hole at PF also so it's not like selecting him creates a logjam.

If we elect to go in another direction and not take Zion then we need to trade the pick. We can get a better PG without the potential best issue with a proven NBA player. Trading the pick that could select Zion should be like trading an All-Star as well so the return should be quite high. I could see that pick bringing in an All-Star type of player like a Kemba Walker. We might even be able to get a PG like De'Aaron Fox for that pick and another asset, be it a future pick or another player. If we could work a deal with Sacramento for Fox and Bagley for Zion, I would jump on that. The start 5 would easily be the best young core in the NBA with Fox, Booker, Jackson/Bridges/Oubre, Bagley, and Ayton would be a team that could dominate when the Warriors window closes. We might even be talented enough to be the ones to close the Warriors window ourselves.

You must be reading the Cardinals forums with this thought process. No need to get cute if you get the #1 pick. In what alternate universe would you would pass on Zion. If you get lucky enough to win the lottery (literally & figuratively) you take Zion. If not you take Ja. If hes gone well then maybe you look to trade out or take BPA.

 

[taz02]

whats with the 5 TO's for Morant? Seems like that would be worse in the NBA.