Knicks @ Suns 3-28-14

Catlover

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Would you really say that Dragic was just a pretty good player while Bledsoe was gone? Goran carried the team.

Having both of them catapulted the Suns, early and now, but, in between, Goran and Markieff carried the team, night in and night out.

Dragic's offense, PJ's defense, Bledsoe's defense (and dynamic offense) and Markieff (and to a lesser degree, Green and Marcus) coming off the bench have been better than pretty good. It is why we are right there for a playoff spot.

Goran had that short stretch where he was terrific leading up to the All Star game but prior to that and following that he played at a level that was pretty good. He was great in a handful of games but I don't think that makes him great. He's pretty good and when paired with a guard such as Bledsoe he becomes very, very good.

I think if you go back and look at the games you'll see that Green carried us on many nights himself. If there was no history about any of these players I think anyone that watched the Suns play through the month of January would have concluded Gerald was our best player. We are right there for a playoff spot for many reasons but it's mostly because we've had perhaps the best record in the league when Goran and Eric are both healthy.

We really didn't play all that well when it was just Goran and that was against a very weak schedule. Over the past 6 games we've played a similarly weak schedule and we won all 6 games. We'd have likely split them if one or the other of our stars had been missing.
 

SirStefan32

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I am with BC on this one. Dragic is far more than a "pretty good player." He may not have been selected to play in the All Star game, but I think most people will agree he is clearly an All Star-level player, with or without Bledsoe.
 

Catlover

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I am with BC on this one. Dragic is far more than a "pretty good player." He may not have been selected to play in the All Star game, but I think most people will agree he is clearly an All Star-level player, with or without Bledsoe.

I think he's almost an all star without Bledsoe and I'm calling that "pretty good". I guess you can call it very good if you want, it's not all that well defined. I just think that when you put the two of them together they are each far better than they are when they are left to run an offense alone.
 

JS22

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I think he's almost an all star without Bledsoe and I'm calling that "pretty good". I guess you can call it very good if you want, it's not all that well defined. I just think that when you put the two of them together they are each far better than they are when they are left to run an offense alone.

January: 22.3 PPG / 6.6 AST

Feb: 23.5 PPG / 6.2 AST

March: 20.4 PPG / 5.3 AST

Almost an all-star? He basically carried the team without Bledsoe.
 

SirStefan32

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January: 22.3 PPG / 6.6 AST

Feb: 23.5 PPG / 6.2 AST

March: 20.4 PPG / 5.3 AST

Almost an all-star? He basically carried the team without Bledsoe.


If those were Bledsoe's numbers, she'd probably call it "top-5 in the NBA", but since it's Dragic, it's only "pretty good."
 

Catlover

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If those were Bledsoe's numbers, she'd probably call it "top-5 in the NBA", but since it's Dragic, it's only "pretty good."

Okay smart boys. Did he make the All Star team? Or was he, perhaps, just maybe, an almost all star?:p

Seriously, I could have just as easily said he's very good. I don't know exactly how "pretty good" became something less than a compliment.
 
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Mainstreet

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I think he's almost an all star without Bledsoe and I'm calling that "pretty good". I guess you can call it very good if you want, it's not all that well defined. I just think that when you put the two of them together they are each far better than they are when they are left to run an offense alone.

Goran is a great player. I have more adjectives to try out as well. :)
 

Catlover

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Goran is a great player. I have more adjectives to try out as well. :)

I think when he plays point guard he's pretty good. When he gets to play shooting guard he's great. CBS Sports has him rated as the 6th best point guard. Hollinger rates him as the second best shooting guard, just behind Harden. Both sound about right to me.
 

SirStefan32

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I think when he plays point guard he's pretty good. When he gets to play shooting guard he's great. CBS Sports has him rated as the 6th best point guard. Hollinger rates him as the second best shooting guard, just behind Harden. Both sound about right to me.

One player- sixth best PG, 2nd best SG. Sure sounds like a great player to me.
 

JS22

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Okay smart boys. Did he make the All Star team? Or was he, perhaps, just maybe, an almost all star?:p

Seriously, I could have just as easily said he's very good. I don't know exactly how "pretty good" became something less than a compliment.

I think it's pretty well accepted that Dragic deserved an all-star spot over a few of the PG's that made it in. (Lillard and Parker.)
 

BC867

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Okay smart boys. Did he make the All Star team? Or was he, perhaps, just maybe, an almost all star?:p

Seriously, I could have just as easily said he's very good. I don't know exactly how "pretty good" became something less than a compliment.
EXCELLENT-GOOD-AVERAGE-BELOW AVERAGE-POOR

'Sorry to say that "pretty good" fits only one of those grades -- AVERAGE. Whether looking at his stats or the way he carried the Suns, would you call him AVERAGE?

Goran Dragic this season, whether Bledsoe has been on the floor or not, is not AVERAGE. He is GOOD+. Almost EXCELLENT. Just as he was in consideration for the All Star game.

sunsfan88 said:
You guys should check out this Knicks fan's rant after losing to PHX.. It's pretty funny
Funny stuff! I guess he thought Felton was pretty bad. :)
 
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Mainstreet

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So Plumlee is called the "Big Show." Interesting.
 

Catlover

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EXCELLENT-GOOD-AVERAGE-BELOW AVERAGE-POOR

'Sorry to say that "pretty good" fits only one of those grades -- AVERAGE. Whether looking at his stats or the way he carried the Suns, would you call him AVERAGE?

Goran Dragic this season, whether Bledsoe has been on the floor or not, is not AVERAGE. He is GOOD+. Almost EXCELLENT. Just as he was in consideration for the All Star game.

Really? I guess it's time for me to trade in my dictionary. I would have thought decent or fair or good-but-nothing-special would be more appropriate if I were trying to call someone average without using that word itself. I watch someone and I often say "wow, he's pretty good". Not once have I ever exclaimed "holy snikes, he's average". :)

I think in context though I've established that I wasn't using "pretty good" to mean average even if you and others use it that way. I think he's a pretty good point guard because point guards have defensive responsibilities that he doesn't meet and because his court vision isn't great. He passes well and drives to the basket for the hoop or a kick-out with the best of them. As a basketball player I think he's great but as a point guard his deficiencies knock him down a notch from that uppermost level.

One of his greatest strengths that we never really talk about is his consistency. How many bad games has he had this year? Off the top of my head I can't think of any truly off-nights although I can remember a game or two when he didn't score much (when we blew out the Spurs comes to mind)? His game is almost recession proof now. He might not always have a great game but he's not going to be held to 11 points very often. If he plays typical minutes, he almost always gets his numbers no matter who is guarding him.

I love the guy but I still maintain he is not a great point guard. Fortunately the game itself doesn't really care about positions. The man can play and he does it well, paired with another slightly incomplete point guard and I believe we have the best guard combination in the league. I have said that many times and if I thought Goran was average I'd have to consider Lebron a poor man's Bledsoe to justify both opinions.
 

cheesebeef

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Really? I guess it's time for me to trade in my dictionary. I would have thought decent or fair or good-but-nothing-special would be more appropriate if I were trying to call someone average without using that word itself. I watch someone and I often say "wow, he's pretty good". Not once have I ever exclaimed "holy snikes, he's average". :)

I think in context though I've established that I wasn't using "pretty good" to mean average even if you and others use it that way. I think he's a pretty good point guard because point guards have defensive responsibilities that he doesn't meet and because his court vision isn't great. He passes well and drives to the basket for the hoop or a kick-out with the best of them. As a basketball player I think he's great but as a point guard his deficiencies knock him down a notch from that uppermost level.

One of his greatest strengths that we never really talk about is his consistency. How many bad games has he had this year? Off the top of my head I can't think of any truly off-nights although I can remember a game or two when he didn't score much (when we blew out the Spurs comes to mind)? His game is almost recession proof now. He might not always have a great game but he's not going to be held to 11 points very often. If he plays typical minutes, he almost always gets his numbers no matter who is guarding him.

I love the guy but I still maintain he is not a great point guard. Fortunately the game itself doesn't really care about positions. The man can play and he does it well, paired with another slightly incomplete point guard and I believe we have the best guard combination in the league. I have said that many times and if I thought Goran was average I'd have to consider Lebron a poor man's Bledsoe to justify both opinions.


pretty much agree with all of this.
 
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Mainstreet

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Goran is the straw that stirs the drink. However, to evaluate him as strictly as a PG is the wrong way to approach it. I think Goran could be a great PG if that is what the Suns wanted him to be. However, Goran has an expanded role as a scorer with the Suns. I think we can safely say that Goran is a great combo guard with the ability to flip between between the PG and SG positions. This ability is what makes him even better when Bledsoe joins him in the backcourt. Maybe it would be better to describe Goran as an "excellent" guard but it does not seem to give him enough credit for his versatility.
 

cheesebeef

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Goran is the straw that stirs the drink. However, to evaluate him as strictly as a PG is the wrong way to approach it. I think Goran could be a great PG if that is what the Suns wanted him to be. However, Goran has an expanded role as a scorer with the Suns. I think we can safely say that Goran is a great combo guard with the ability to flip between between the PG and SG positions. This ability is what makes him even better when Bledsoe joins him in the backcourt. Maybe it would be better to describe Goran as an "excellent" guard but it does not seem to give him enough credit for his versatility.

see, this is can agree with. he's a very very good, borderline great combo guard (need to see at least another season like this to solidify greatness), but as a pure point, he's a notch below the Paul/Currys of the world. even during the period where he was the sole distributor when Bledsoe was out, he still averaged only 6 dimes a game.
 

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see, this is can agree with. he's a very very good, borderline great combo guard (need to see at least another season like this to solidify greatness), but as a pure point, he's a notch below the Paul/Currys of the world. even during the period where he was the sole distributor when Bledsoe was out, he still averaged only 6 dimes a game.

I think that's a function of the coaching. Hornacek has said multiple times he wants Dragic and Bledsoe to focus more on attacking and scoring. I'm pretty sure he led the league post all-star game last season in assists and was averaging 9.5apg during that stretch.
 

sunsfan88

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Only thing holding back Dragic is his FT shooting. 74% FT shooting is pretty bad for a PG.
 

Superbone

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74% and going down quickly. It seems like he's 1/2 every time at the FT line. It doesn't make sense that he can shoot the 3 at such a great rate but then struggle at the FT line. He looks to have great arc on his threes while his FTs are flat.
 

AfroSuns

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74% and going down quickly. It seems like he's 1/2 every time at the FT line. It doesn't make sense that he can shoot the 3 at such a great rate but then struggle at the FT line. He looks to have great arc on his threes while his FTs are flat.

i think it comes down to practice. he may have been taking his working on fhis ree throws for granted, in favor of other aspect of his game. he was doing pretty good beginning of the season but getting worse as the season progresses.
 

Catlover

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Only thing holding back Dragic is his FT shooting. 74% FT shooting is pretty bad for a PG.

Even worse for a Shooting Guard. :)


74% and going down quickly. It seems like he's 1/2 every time at the FT line. It doesn't make sense that he can shoot the 3 at such a great rate but then struggle at the FT line. He looks to have great arc on his threes while his FTs are flat.

i think it comes down to practice. he may have been taking his working on fhis ree throws for granted, in favor of other aspect of his game. he was doing pretty good beginning of the season but getting worse as the season progresses.

This is kind of funny. Even if he shot his free throws at 90%, would it even add a full point to his per game scoring average? I don't think so. As a matter of fact, if he had made every single one of his free throws this season our scoring would go up by less than a point and a half per game. I'm not really sure what this stat is holding Goran back from.
 
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