Kelly Oubre

NashDishesDimes

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He has played extremely well, his +/- is very good and is the biggest producer off of the bench.
The one thing I really like about him is he seems to bring it every night which is important for the bench. The bench has played well as of late and I think its mostly due to his energy and Holmes. I remember reading the Wizards board after the trade and everyone basically said they liked his energy always and that he was their bench.

In other words, they need to sign this guy to a team friendly deal similar to what they did with TJ ASAP. He is a restricted free agent after this year right? I think TJ was 4 years 50m which sounds right to me.

I think he could be a great consolation for the likely bust Josh jackson (or at least never living up to his draft status). If I had to chose today between the two id pay Oubre without question. Josh Jackson thinks hes Kobe.

Either way, Suns fleeced the Gizards on that deal, even though Suns tried to mess it up by doing the orignal trade that didnt include Oubre.
 

Cheesebeef

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How do we not? Rather, how do Sarver and his band of merry billionaires not?

'Just part of stocking a competing basketball team.

i think he's talking from a salary cap POV where you have to decide what you can spend on according to league rules.
 

Hoop Head

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How do we pay Oubre and a PG?

We should have somewhere in the neighborhood of $30 million in cap space, which should be more than enough to resign Oubre and bring in a free agent PG. Oubre is a restricted free agent also, and we own his bird rights. If he's going to be kept for more than his cap hold then we need to explain that we're going to sign him a little later in the free agency period in order to maximize our cap space because we can go over the cap to resign Oubre. I'm not sure what his cap hold is but I would guess it's less than $10 million a year, which would still leave $20 million available to sign a PG.
 

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We should have somewhere in the neighborhood of $30 million in cap space, which should be more than enough to resign Oubre and bring in a free agent PG. Oubre is a restricted free agent also, and we own his bird rights. If he's going to be kept for more than his cap hold then we need to explain that we're going to sign him a little later in the free agency period in order to maximize our cap space because we can go over the cap to resign Oubre. I'm not sure what his cap hold is but I would guess it's less than $10 million a year, which would still leave $20 million available to sign a PG.


Thank you, and yes Cheese I was referring to cap space.
 

JCSunsfan

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OUbre's cap hold is only $9 million. So as long as we get our free agent target signed first, we are OK.
 

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Don't forget Holmes, but we have is Bird rights, so we are in a very good spot with him as well.
 

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Thanks, Holmes was my next question. Seems like we are in a good spot. Now lets see what Sarver and JJ can do with it.

If they can't turn this around with 30m to spend and another top five pick it's hopeless.......
 

Chaplin

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At least we know what we need. Before, other than Booker, we basically needed everything and anything--and McD would be making decisions by throwing a dart on a dart board. Now, with improving JJ and Bridges and Ayton, we know we need PF and PG. A bad position to be in, sure, but a better position to be in than we've been in maybe even since Nash retired, and maybe before that.
 

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Trading our top pick for a quality player might make sense at this point--with protections of course. Even top five protection might make sense. Its like freeing up space and getting our free agent early. The trade deadline is coming.
 

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Yes, I think trading the pick for the right guy is exactly what is needed. TJ seems to be the odd man out.
 

AzStevenCal

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Trading our top pick for a quality player might make sense at this point--with protections of course. Even top five protection might make sense. Its like freeing up space and getting our free agent early. The trade deadline is coming.

I don't know that I'd want the kind of player a team might sell for a top 5 protected pick in this draft?
 

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I don't know that I'd want the kind of player a team might sell for a top 5 protected pick in this draft?

I can understand that but if we traded our pick, top 5 protected, and TJ for a PG or PF then we should be able to land a pretty good starter. Who that would be, I'm not sure, but having TJ, our pick, the Bucks pick, and then some cap filler like Bender and Daniels should allow us to make a run at just about anyone a team is looking to move before the deadline. That gives them a solid player that is signed to a good contract as well as a good draft pick. I guess now it's just a matter of seeing what teams are looking to move one of their starters. I know Cleveland has gone back and forth as to whether Kevin Love is available and if we didn't sign such a cap killing extension I'd be interested but as is I wouldn't consider it unless it was TJ, Anderson, and the Bucks pick for him. I wouldn't include our own pick in that deal but if they allowed us to protect it if it was #1 overall I would give them the rights to swap picks with us.
 

Proximo

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Listening to James Jones today, I don’t think they are planning on a trade. Basically it sounds like only if something advantageous presents itself, but they aren’t looking for one. He wants this team to develop for the rest of the season.

I don’t really understand this desire by fans to get rid of Warren before the deadline. What is the rush?
 

SirStefan32

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Listening to James Jones today, I don’t think they are planning on a trade. Basically it sounds like only if something advantageous presents itself, but they aren’t looking for one. He wants this team to develop for the rest of the season.

I don’t really understand this desire by fans to get rid of Warren before the deadline. What is the rush?

Generally speaking, we (fans) have less patience than the professionals. that's why you see people calling for the coach to be fired ten games into a season, for example. I am guessing it's because we hate losing, so we end up being short-sighted.
 

AzStevenCal

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Listening to James Jones today, I don’t think they are planning on a trade. Basically it sounds like only if something advantageous presents itself, but they aren’t looking for one. He wants this team to develop for the rest of the season.

I don’t really understand this desire by fans to get rid of Warren before the deadline. What is the rush?

I'm fine with moving him in the offseason if that's what gets us our best return. I'm just not fine with keeping him long term despite him being on a very reasonable contract. I just think with all our youth we need mature players we can count on every game, not veterans that pout, antagonize refs and disappear all too often. And before someone goes down this road, I'm not saying he's the reason we are bad. He's just not the solution we need.
 

Proximo

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I'm fine with moving him in the offseason if that's what gets us our best return. I'm just not fine with keeping him long term despite him being on a very reasonable contract. I just think with all our youth we need mature players we can count on every game, not veterans that pout, antagonize refs and disappear all too often. And before someone goes down this road, I'm not saying he's the reason we are bad. He's just not the solution we need.

I mean I kind of know where you are coming from. He is a defensive liability, and if he actually has a problem coming off the bench that is a problem.

Honestly I was all for trading him before the season, but that 3 point shot makes him way more valuable, and I never expected that.

Perhaps he can fix his defense and rebounding also. Even if he can’t I think he is to valuable to shop. He needs to be used when an unexpected deal becomes available to get good value.

I am sick of the suns losing too, but this season is basically over. I am beginning to agree with jones our best move is just to continue to give our young guys more time to evaluate them as best we can.
 

1Sun

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I mean I kind of know where you are coming from. He is a defensive liability, and if he actually has a problem coming off the bench that is a problem.

Honestly I was all for trading him before the season, but that 3 point shot makes him way more valuable, and I never expected that.

Perhaps he can fix his defense and rebounding also. Even if he can’t I think he is to valuable to shop. He needs to be used when an unexpected deal becomes available to get good value.

I am sick of the suns losing too, but this season is basically over. I am beginning to agree with jones our best move is just to continue to give our young guys more time to evaluate them as best we can.

Kind of difficult to do that without a point guard or power forward on the roster.
 

BC867

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Generally speaking, we (fans) have less patience than the professionals. that's why you see people calling for the coach to be fired ten games into a season, for example. I am guessing it's because we hate losing, so we end up being short-sighted.
8-9 years out of the playoffs is short-sighted? Even more than hating losing, we hate losers running the team.

Losing reflects the past. Losers reflect the ongoing future.
 

AZCrazy

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No one want to keep TJ? He is, after all, currently our best player. He won't command a giant contract.
Even if we did acquire a big PF, he would be our best 6th man in a long time.
 

AzStevenCal

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No one want to keep TJ? He is, after all, currently our best player. He won't command a giant contract.
Even if we did acquire a big PF, he would be our best 6th man in a long time.

He sulked the last time we tried to use him off the bench, why should we expect anything different now? And no, he isn't, after all, currently our best player. Apparently some consider him to be our best player, I guess, but that's a different thing entirely. Right now, if you're looking at a hobbled Booker, I'd say Holmes, Ayton and Oubre (lately) have all helped this team more than TJ. And Booker, healthy, is much better than any of them.
 

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Listening to James Jones today, I don’t think they are planning on a trade. Basically it sounds like only if something advantageous presents itself, but they aren’t looking for one. He wants this team to develop for the rest of the season.

I don’t really understand this desire by fans to get rid of Warren before the deadline. What is the rush?

I'm in favor of trading Warren and I've been against it for a long while because I always thought he was undervalued. At this point though I think he's your "good stats on a bad team" player though and doesn't help you win. It would be nice if he could be our 6th man but he doesn't seem to be content doing that so we should be listening to offers for him, if nothing else, and look to move him this offseason if a good trade doesn't present itself before the deadline. He doesn't need to be dealt right away but he should be shopped around. His value is likely at an all time high with his 3pt shooting finally being good enough to really stretch the floor. The problem with keeping him is he doesn't want to come off the bench but he's not a PF and he's currently our 2nd best SF that could end up being our 4th best SF by the end of next season if we resign Oubre and develop Bridges and Jackson. I would say Oubre is better than him now but TJ is better than both Bridges and JJ at the moment. Bridges and JJ are both better defenders but TJ brings a good scoring punch but that's all he brings to the table. Once they can average at least 10 a game consistently they'll probably surpass him based on their defense also.


TJ's scoring does not help us win games, which is a problem. I think part of that is more than how he scores, which was sort of one dimensional in years past, but it has to more to do with once he touches the ball then he's going to shoot it. He doesn't pass nearly enough. Even though he can now be a catch and shoot threat and hit his 3's, he doesn't offer anything else. When he gets the ball everyone knows he's taking a shot. He doesn't help get others going offensively and a bit of a ball hog, even though he is fairly efficient. If you're scoring 20 points a game then you should average at least 3 assists a game from passing out of doubles or keeping defenses guessing but TJ doesn't come close at 1.7 a game as a starter this year and 19.7 ppg. In the top 20 scorers in the league only 2 average less than 3 assists per game, Karl-Anthony Towns at #17 and 22.2 ppg with 2.9 assists and Klay Thompson at 21.9 ppg and 2.0 apg. Towns is a Center who played all but his last 2 games in Thibs slow it down style and also had to deal with the Butler fiasco for the first month and a half of the season. Klay has 3 playmakers on the floor with him and is the Warriors 4th option to get the ball. The Warriors have 3 starters averaging more than assists, Green with 7.0, Durant with 6.1, and Curry with 5.5. It's not a surprise Klay has a low assist rate sharing the floor with those 3 because he's scoring for their assists. TJ is our #2 scorer though and just doesn't pass.


On defense TJ is our 4th best SF, which is a nice way of saying our worst SF at defense. Once Bridges and Jackson get more consistent offensively then they will make it harder to justify giving TJ 30+ minutes a game. Booker gets excused for his defense because he does so much offensively but TJ doesn't do nearly what Booker does because TJ only does for himself. He doesn't get the same pass that Booker does and he's also not a very good rebounder and that's obvious with him playing "PF" by default. He doesn't want to come off the bench, isn't a good defender, only produces for himself offensively, and doesn't rebound a lot either. What does he bring that Oubre, Jackson, and Bridges can't provide? Don't get me wrong, I've always been a fan and don't want him traded just to trade him but he's probably one of our best trade chips right now since he's on a good contract and can provide a playoff team with some extra scoring. Let's see what he can bring back. Don't force a deal, there is no rush, but there shouldn't be a future beyond this season either.



Thought I'd add that if he'll accept being our 6th man then I'd be ok rethinking a trade but it depends on if he was pouting earlier in the season about coming off the bench because he was clearly playing better than Anderson and Ariza or if he just didn't want to come off the bench. Jones and Igor should know the answer to that and if he's ok coming off the bench for players who are producing then Oubre should take his starting spot. We can move him back into the starting 5 if Booker sits out because then he could provide scoring but that's also when he got visibly pouty earlier this season, when Jackson took Booker's spot in the starting 5. With Melton and Bridges being starters right now though TJ can could cover for Booker in the starting 5 with Bridges going from SF to SG.
 

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I don't think anyone necessarily wants to trade TJ. It's the fact that we have four wings including TJ and no PF and no PG.

We are constantly killed on the boards, at the foul line and our starting lineup is bad on the defensive end. For all of TJ's talents he doesn't solve these issues.

The best scenario would be to resign Holmes, Oubre, bring in a top PG, a quality PF and move TJ to the bench.

If TJ is unwilling to come off the bench it is a big problem. If we are going to roll with Booker and Ayton the other three starters must play defense. I think Oubre should be starting in place of TJ right now.
 

Western Font

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I would feature Warren and then trade him. Doesn't have to be at the deadline. And of course I mean for a return we like; it's not about getting rid of him. It's a gamble because some combination of Jackson/Bridges developing and Oubre getting re-signed has to work out, but I think it's worth a shot.
 
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