Keim Not Done

[BurqueCardFan]

That’s funny because with the exception of Okudah, Wills is a better prospect than all of these guys you named.

Not from what I have seen. Not many have Wills even in the top 10. Many sites have Wirfs or even Becton ranked higher. Name the last Alabama OL that warranted a top 10 pick in the last decade? Most of these guys are a product of the system and talent around them.

 

[Dan H]

I’m okay if we go RT at 8, but I’m also okay if we go WR.

it’s a team sport. You can’t tell me teams will blitz us in 2020 like they did this year if we’re going four wide with Hopkins, Fitz, Kirk, and possibly Lamb.

You’re talking about a base-nickel just to double cover someone, and that leaves three of the four with single coverage. Then add the fact that you’ve gotta keep a spy on Kyler and you realistically only have five guys to rush - and then what happens if you flex Drake or Edmonds wide?

 

[DVontel]

You are criticizing people for wanting Simmons at 8 but you wanted Epenesa bad.

To your second point...we have signed 2 players to 2nd contracts in 15 years? Take the best player that will make the most impact now.

You’re still not making a point.

I don’t care if I did or didn’t want Epenesa at one point a long time ago.

The point is who is the best prospect between Simmons & Wills/Wirfs.


So, we should be comfortable with that? I hope not, but maybe you’re indifferent.

 

[Solar7]

I’m okay if we go RT at 8, but I’m also okay if we go WR.

it’s a team sport. You can’t tell me teams will blitz us in 2020 like they did this year if we’re going four wide with Hopkins, Fitz, Kirk, and possibly Lamb.

You’re talking about a base-nickel just to double cover someone, and that leaves three of the four with single coverage. Then add the fact that you’ve gotta keep a spy on Kyler and you realistically only have five guys to rush - and then what happens if you flex Drake or Edmonds wide?

Kyler was only blitzed 16th among QBs. Who needs to blitz when rushing four makes Kyler the 5th most pressured QB in the league?

 

[cardncubfan]

I love that we use PFF on this board when it supports our arguments, and **** all over it otherwise. Watch the tape, look at the teams who didn't want the player, go with the big picture. An entire line of maybe average is not good enough to block for our #1 overall pick at QB, who was top 5 in hurries.

This line has to get better somewhere, and we have great opportunities screaming us in the face right now. People still want the shiny exterior parts instead of fixing the engine that makes the whole thing run.

Cole over Shipley is a start.

 

[TheCardFan]

We are all trying to determine the best player and the most important position.

If we knew for a fact that whatever player we picked OT, DL, or LB would be an all pro the next 10 years...then you could make the argument.

However, the 2nd best OT may not be as good as the #1 LB or #1 DT. Or maybe the 3rd best OT is better than both.

You’re still not making a point.

Point made above.

You don't know how long a player is going to play ILB or OT. You also don't know (nobody does) who is going to have a better NFL career.

We don't have a track record of impact players or 2nd contracts (2 in 15 years?)...pick the best player that will make the biggest impact on this team. It's like reaching for Levi Brown out of need and not drafting Adrian Peterson because we had Edgerrin James (2007 was his last good year at age 29).

Edit: side not. We missed out on the best OT in that draft (Joe Thomas) and reached for Brown.

Draft the best player...BPA. If that players ends up being Luke Kuechly and only playing 8 pro bowl type seasons with us. Fine.

 

[Solar7]

Cole over Shipley is a start.

Except, Shipley beat out Cole, coming off of a torn ACL, so that's nothing but hoping it's true.

 

[Solar7]

Point made above.

You don't know how long a player is going to play ILB or OT. You also don't know (nobody does) who is going to have a better NFL career.

We don't have a track record of impact players or 2nd contracts (2 in 15 years?)...pick the best player that will make the biggest impact on this team. It's like reaching for Levi Brown out of need and not drafting Adrian Peterson because we had Edgerrin James (2007 was his last good year at age 29).

Draft the best player...BPA.

BPA is all well and good, but when one player is going to affect 100% of the snaps vs. 50%, you have to account for that impact.

I know you guys are fighting about different players, and I like Simmons a lot, but it's valid to all arguments.

I think people are getting scared about OT because there isn't a true consensus, so it makes people think, "well, they must all be worse than the clear cut guy." But it's really just a matter of scheme fit/risk to where you rank this group.

 

[TheCardFan]

BPA is all well and good, but when one player is going to affect 100% of the snaps vs. 50%, you have to account for that impact.

Based on your statement, why wouldn't all QB's, CB's, and OL go first in the draft and DL, WR, and RB go last (based on snap %)?

There is no perfect formula except for taking the best player...that never fails you.

 

[outcent13]

Based on your statement, why wouldn't all QB's, CB's, and OL go first in the draft and DL, WR, and RB go last (based on snap %)?

There is no perfect formula except for taking the best player...that never fails you.

This is where I stand on it. Whatever the BPA is you have to take . Levi Brown impacted 100% of offensive plays while Adrian Peterson, Marshawn Lynch or evening Patrick Willis on defense did not. Who would you have preferred the Cards take?
If the BPA is in fact Wirfs or Wills or any other OT then take him. But we also can’t expect them to come in and be immediately better than what we have.

 

[Solar7]

Based on your statement, why wouldn't all QB's, CB's, and OL go first in the draft and DL, WR, and RB go last (based on snap %)?

There is no perfect formula except for taking the best player...that never fails you.

RBs touch the ball plenty, so I'm not sure what you're getting at there. Snap % isn't the only important thing - of course the game can turn on limited snaps. But a 4th WR or CB isn't a smart add if the other guy taking more snaps is garbage.

Taking the best player when they're not going to see the field isn't how to win games. Of course, don't draft a garbage player just because of need, but if two talents are pretty equal, you have to consider need.

This is also Keim's draft philosophy, at least as previously stated.

Simmons is great in my opinion, and we can find ways to get him on the field, so I endorse the pick. I don't want to be manufacturing snaps for someone like Lamb as a #4 WR. We have a great WR corps, let's focus somewhere else.

 

[DVontel]

Point made above.

You don't know how long a player is going to play ILB or OT. You also don't know (nobody does) who is going to have a better NFL career.

We don't have a track record of impact players or 2nd contracts (2 in 15 years?)...pick the best player that will make the biggest impact on this team. It's like reaching for Levi Brown out of need and not drafting Adrian Peterson because we had Edgerrin James (2007 was his last good year at age 29).

Edit: side not. We missed out on the best OT in that draft (Joe Thomas) and reached for Brown.

Draft the best player...BPA. If that players ends up being Luke Kuechly and only playing 8 pro bowl type seasons with us. Fine.

A bad one.

It’s pretty obvious whose careers lasts longer between OTs & ILBs.

I can predict who is going to be the better player.

I’d rather have the equal amount of All-Pro seasons with an OT than a ILB.

 

[JCSunsfan]

If you go WR with the first-round pick, then it should be in a trade down situation. And you might as well include Kirk in the trade so you can get the best possible second pick out of it.

Kirk and #8 for a #10-12 pick and an early second-rounder? Something like that. Not sure how the charts would value it. You have to get two guaranteed productive players.

BTW. Hiring buddies and brothers rarely works out well. Asks the Suns.

 

[TheCardFan]

A bad one.

It’s pretty obvious whose careers lasts longer between OTs & ILBs.

I can predict who is going to be the better player.

I’d rather have the equal amount of All-Pro seasons with an OT than a ILB.

Says a guy who wanted Epenesa at #8.

You made my point. All things being equal...yes, you take the OT over the ILB.

However, all things are not equal. You take Luke Kuechly over Matt Kalil 11 times out of 10.

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[Shane]

I guess he wasn’t done lol

 

[DVontel]

Says a guy who wanted Epenesa at #8.

You made my point. All things being equal...yes, you take the OT over the ILB.

However, all things are not equal. You take Luke Kuechly over Matt Kalil 11 times out of 10.

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What point? You’re clearly not making a good one at all. You’re harping over a guy that I was interested in drafting about 2-3 months ago. Jesus Christ son, lol.


You also take Trent Williams & even Russell Okung over Rolando McClain 20 times out of 10.


Also, look at that. Who’s still in the league(despite coming in 2 years earlier) & who had to unfortunately, but understandably retire?

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[bankybruce]

Jordan Reed, he fits what SK does this time of year. Injury plagued career, but can play when he plays. One year prove it deal.

Or Jason Peters to play RT? Not sure if he can, but if he can still play and provide a stop gap for one more year. Then we do DT with #8?

Or DT Shelby Harris? Somewhat young, can pl

Or DT Brandon Mebane

That's all I got.

 

[iLLmatiC]

If you go WR with the first-round pick, then it should be in a trade down situation. And you might as well include Kirk in the trade so you can get the best possible second pick out of it.

Kirk and #8 for a #10-12 pick and an early second-rounder? Something like that. Not sure how the charts would value it. You have to get two guaranteed productive players.

BTW. Hiring buddies and brothers rarely works out well. Asks the Suns.

Yeah but I get the feeling Kyler and Lamb aren't ******* trouble makers like the Morris twins.

 

[iLLmatiC]

TE? Jimmy Graham anyone?

He's toast VA. I'd rather take a shot on OJ Howard.

 

[iLLmatiC]

If we don't take a RT then Keim is dumb.

You can have the 3 best WRs in the league but it doesn't matter if you don't have time to find them.

Kylers elusiveness helps with that a bit though. I've been going back and forth with the #8. I just want the best player available regardless.

 

[Dan H]

Kyler was only blitzed 16th among QBs. Who needs to blitz when rushing four makes Kyler the 5th most pressured QB in the league?

Better wideout separation helps there, too, honestly. Kyler's time to throw was 20th in the league, but it was only a quarter of a second less than the league leaders.

 

[Solar7]

Kylers elusiveness helps with that a bit though. I've been going back and forth with the #8. I just want the best player available regardless.

"Run away" should not be a strategy to protect your QB.

 

[Solar7]

Better wideout separation helps there, too, honestly. Kyler's time to throw was 20th in the league, but it was only a quarter of a second less than the league leaders.

Kyler's time to throw was inflated because he was running away. The time to throw statistic does not equal "time to pressure."

 

[iLLmatiC]

"Run away" should not be a strategy to protect your QB.

No but he can actually get away. Hopefully he's been watching Russell Wilson's tape this off season, he needs to get better an improvising. That's when RWs really kicks our ass.

 

[Solar7]

No but he can actually get away. Hopefully he's been watching Russell Wilson's tape this off season, he needs to get better an improvising. That's when RWs really kicks our ass.

I just don't like hoping and praying that Kyler is as lucky as Russell Wilson has been as an NFL strategy. He takes one bad hit and he's more RG3 than RW overnight.